Hellstorm79
Inactive
I just bought my first rifle, Remington 700 308. I would like to know hthe best ways to break in a barrel?
Breaking in a Barrel?
- Thread starter Hellstorm79
- Start date
Man, you're gonna open a can-o-worms here. Nothing wrong in asking, mind you- but I thinks you're gonna get a lot of info here to sort through.
But as long as you're asking... I'll toss in something I just recently read on that matter: http://http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html
But as long as you're asking... I'll toss in something I just recently read on that matter: http://http://www.6mmbr.com/GailMcMbreakin.html
barrel
There are as many opinions about this as there are shooters. Is it necessary? What is the best way to do it? What can you expect when you are done?
And so on.
I am of the "just go shoot and clean it when you are done" school of barrel break in. But that's one voice. Wait.
Pete
PS - my first reaction to this thread was "do a search". So, I did. Using the terms "breaking in a barrel", the results were not particularly helpful. Is there a better way? I also tried "barrel break in".
There are as many opinions about this as there are shooters. Is it necessary? What is the best way to do it? What can you expect when you are done?
And so on.
I am of the "just go shoot and clean it when you are done" school of barrel break in. But that's one voice. Wait.
Pete
PS - my first reaction to this thread was "do a search". So, I did. Using the terms "breaking in a barrel", the results were not particularly helpful. Is there a better way? I also tried "barrel break in".
Hellstorm79
Inactive
I tried searching too and didn't find any useful info, this is the first I've heard of breaking in a barrel so I'm just getting opinions on it.
Thanks for the article 10-96, that's kinda what I was already thinking.
Thanks for the article 10-96, that's kinda what I was already thinking.
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Christchild
New member
The Purpose of a New Barrel Break-In, in general, is to remove the tool marks left in the barrel. There are several manufacturing processes in which to cut the bore and then the grooves, but ALL of the methods leave tool marks.
1st, Barnes bullets are NOT recommended for barrel break-in, because the copper is too soft and won't remove the tool marks. If You choose to use factory ammo (using bullets with guilding metal jackets), You will find several "suggested methods" of the "proper" barrel break-in, and most will do the job.
On the other hand, You can either have a Gunsmith lap the bore, which is a lengthy and fairly costly process, also, after the Smith laps Your bore, he is supposed to re-crown the muzzle, adding time and cost to the work.
Or, there are bullets available (if You handload) that are impregnated with fine grit (lapping compound) that You fire through the barrel, to remove tool marks and polish the bore.
If You don't handload, the same company that offers the bullets, offers loaded ammunition using the same bullets (obviously, right).
TUBB 2000 Final Finish Bore Polishing System (bullets only or loaded ammo).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=513887
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=847811
These are higly recommended with factory barrels....
I will also say, to clean Your bore thoroughly before ever firing a shot.
After receiving my rifle back from the 'Smith, I put the new barrel through the process. I hunt, but don't shoot a trainload of ammo, other than practice, load development, and to make sure the rifle/load/scope are still on time. That rifle will outlast ME.
NOTE: I personally have never used the "Final Finish" system, and don't think I should on my custom barrel, but should I get a factory rifle, I will use it.
"They" say that a barrel is only good for X amount of shots, but I believe that it's more so how You shoot, what kind of ammo You shoot (hot or not), X amount of shots fired in a single "sitting", how well You care for Your firearm, etc., etc...
Barrel makers say that this barrel is good for say, 3000 rounds.... What about varmint shooters? They tend to burn barrels, using small caliber/high velocity cartridges, but once Your barrel gets so hot and You continue to shoot, You're putting fire, gas pressure, and bullet material over softened steel. NOT good. What about military rifles (not a very good example)? Combat rifles, in combat, will fire MANY a Round. How fast are they officially burned out, and still maintain any level of accuracy?
There are many opinions coming Your way............
1st, Barnes bullets are NOT recommended for barrel break-in, because the copper is too soft and won't remove the tool marks. If You choose to use factory ammo (using bullets with guilding metal jackets), You will find several "suggested methods" of the "proper" barrel break-in, and most will do the job.
On the other hand, You can either have a Gunsmith lap the bore, which is a lengthy and fairly costly process, also, after the Smith laps Your bore, he is supposed to re-crown the muzzle, adding time and cost to the work.
Or, there are bullets available (if You handload) that are impregnated with fine grit (lapping compound) that You fire through the barrel, to remove tool marks and polish the bore.
If You don't handload, the same company that offers the bullets, offers loaded ammunition using the same bullets (obviously, right).
TUBB 2000 Final Finish Bore Polishing System (bullets only or loaded ammo).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=513887
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=847811
These are higly recommended with factory barrels....
I will also say, to clean Your bore thoroughly before ever firing a shot.
After receiving my rifle back from the 'Smith, I put the new barrel through the process. I hunt, but don't shoot a trainload of ammo, other than practice, load development, and to make sure the rifle/load/scope are still on time. That rifle will outlast ME.
NOTE: I personally have never used the "Final Finish" system, and don't think I should on my custom barrel, but should I get a factory rifle, I will use it.
"They" say that a barrel is only good for X amount of shots, but I believe that it's more so how You shoot, what kind of ammo You shoot (hot or not), X amount of shots fired in a single "sitting", how well You care for Your firearm, etc., etc...
Barrel makers say that this barrel is good for say, 3000 rounds.... What about varmint shooters? They tend to burn barrels, using small caliber/high velocity cartridges, but once Your barrel gets so hot and You continue to shoot, You're putting fire, gas pressure, and bullet material over softened steel. NOT good. What about military rifles (not a very good example)? Combat rifles, in combat, will fire MANY a Round. How fast are they officially burned out, and still maintain any level of accuracy?
There are many opinions coming Your way............
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Folks, my body isn't made of $ and I'm no High Pockets, so I've never bought a brand new piece with instructions and the like... Well once I bought a $49 dollar Walmart BB gun... But no break in there 
So I had no idea that there is specific ammo that you should not shoot in a new piece before a break in, or that it was required Etc...
So I had no idea that there is specific ammo that you should not shoot in a new piece before a break in, or that it was required Etc...
Christchild
New member
HaHa!!!
You can have your churches, I'll keep my guns. Just keep your hands off my paycheck and your eyes out of my backyard.
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I have my Church AND my guns... How awesome is that?!
What I mean by "Guilding Metal Jacket Material", is most of the jacketed bullets that are used do not have a jacket made of pure copper. They're a copper alloy that's harder than most copper. They are more capable of removing tool marks because of their hardness.
The whole "To Break-In, or To Not Break-In"... I think that's a matter of opinion, and who is telling the truth or just trying to sell more barrels. Me personally, I think new barrels SHOULD be put through SOME kind of break-in, but I would only LAP/POLISH the bore if I bought a new factory rifle.
I've THOUGHT about the Tubb 2000 System for my Browning with the custom barrel, but it shoots way too well to worry about it. Looking at the posts here, I'd suggest a good cleaning before ever firing a shot, but test a few loads before making a decision to perform any break-in. Then, make an informed decision for Yourself whether the break-in is necessary.
You can have your churches, I'll keep my guns. Just keep your hands off my paycheck and your eyes out of my backyard.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have my Church AND my guns... How awesome is that?!
What I mean by "Guilding Metal Jacket Material", is most of the jacketed bullets that are used do not have a jacket made of pure copper. They're a copper alloy that's harder than most copper. They are more capable of removing tool marks because of their hardness.
The whole "To Break-In, or To Not Break-In"... I think that's a matter of opinion, and who is telling the truth or just trying to sell more barrels. Me personally, I think new barrels SHOULD be put through SOME kind of break-in, but I would only LAP/POLISH the bore if I bought a new factory rifle.
I've THOUGHT about the Tubb 2000 System for my Browning with the custom barrel, but it shoots way too well to worry about it. Looking at the posts here, I'd suggest a good cleaning before ever firing a shot, but test a few loads before making a decision to perform any break-in. Then, make an informed decision for Yourself whether the break-in is necessary.
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Thank goodness the OP (Original Poster) didn't mention he had a chrome lined bore! That might have fanned all sorts of flames on this matter.
I followed a little bit of a break in on my new varmint rifles- and less so on my other shooters- and none at all on the only chrome lined bore I have. Am I right or wrong? Who knows for sure... Walt? Bill? If we promise not to bring up the dreaded WD-40 issue, will ya'll weigh in?
I followed a little bit of a break in on my new varmint rifles- and less so on my other shooters- and none at all on the only chrome lined bore I have. Am I right or wrong? Who knows for sure... Walt? Bill? If we promise not to bring up the dreaded WD-40 issue, will ya'll weigh in?
Hellstorm79
Inactive
Thanks all
I appreciate all the answers, considering I twitch if my guns are dirty for more than a couple hours I think I'll be okay either way. I can see some merit to both sides of the coin.
I appreciate all the answers, considering I twitch if my guns are dirty for more than a couple hours I think I'll be okay either way. I can see some merit to both sides of the coin.
Even the barrel-makers don't agree upon barrel break-in. How can you expect a bunch of internet experts to agree? Me, I break mine in. But I will say that breaking in a factory barrel is probably a waste of time. You will probably see some improvement if you fire-lap it as recommended above.
bigted1956
Inactive
easy easy easy!!!
im no expert , just have a "few" guns and never had a problem the way i do it. here is the simple and easy;
shoot the first round...brush the bore with a copper remover 10 times. clean and allow to cool completely.
continue this for 10 rounds. brushing between shots and cleaning and allow the barrel to completely cool between shots.
the next shot...shoot 2 rounds and brush/clean like the first 10 rounds. do this for a total of 20 rounds of factory ammo.
ive never had a problem with a copper nor lead deposites inside my barrels when i have done this procedure.
dont know but suspect that this "irons" the tool marks and metal roughness inside the bore without adding deposites to the mix.
my method is to ready the barrel to shoot cast boolits without leading the barrel........so far this has worked for me.
im no expert , just have a "few" guns and never had a problem the way i do it. here is the simple and easy;
shoot the first round...brush the bore with a copper remover 10 times. clean and allow to cool completely.
continue this for 10 rounds. brushing between shots and cleaning and allow the barrel to completely cool between shots.
the next shot...shoot 2 rounds and brush/clean like the first 10 rounds. do this for a total of 20 rounds of factory ammo.
ive never had a problem with a copper nor lead deposites inside my barrels when i have done this procedure.
dont know but suspect that this "irons" the tool marks and metal roughness inside the bore without adding deposites to the mix.
my method is to ready the barrel to shoot cast boolits without leading the barrel........so far this has worked for me.
I am guessing, but I think that Gail posted here at the Firing Line.
6mmBR site did not really get going until Gail had passed away.
10 years ago I searched the internet for every word that Gail McMillan or Bart Bobbit ever wrote.
The place to find Gail's writings was nearly exclusively here at TFL.
I agree with Gail about the expensive barrels that are factory lapped. No break in required.
The lousy barrels, break in, do what ever. They need lots of help.
This really is barrel dependent. Mr. McMillan mentions throat burrs because his barrels were lapped. Douglas barrels are button-rifled. Military barrels are, like a lot of custom barrels, cut-rifled, but not lapped.
It seems to me obvious that an un-lapped cut-rifled barrel will have a great many more wire edges that need either burning out or burnishing than does a lapped custom barrel whose only source of trouble is the throat. My first Garand had a military barrel on it that was so rough that it could not complete a 50 round NMC before the fouling opened groups up from less than one to almost two moa. That happened between about round 40 and 50. It took serious firelapping to correct it. I had run a break-in procedure but to no avail. It was that bad.
At the other extreme, if you have a hand-lapped custom barrel and the throat is the only source of problems with burrs, you have a couple of options. You can ignore it. You can do some kind of break-in. Or, you can be extreme, as one fellow in Precision Shooting magazine was, and use several copies of your bullet of choice to lap the throat to match your bullet's ogive. In the process, burrs will be removed.
Personally, I don't know any rifle I'm not going to have to work up loads for. Unless the barrel proves to be a bad fouler, I let the load work-up process be my break-in period. I typically use Dan Newberry's round robin method for finding sweet spot loads these days, and that usually means about 21 or 24 rounds will be expended for each bullet and powder combination worked up in the gun. So, I just clean after every round the first time I run a combination through it. I don't see a purpose in cleaning every three, then every five, like you were weening an addict off an illicit substance. If you are trying to burnish something that grabs copper, you want to clean it every time to re-expose it to burnishing until it fails to grab any more. In the end, I've broken the barrel in as much as I am going to have one, and I've got a load for good accuracy with a clean barrel. I then fire a smaller sample to see how it does with fouling. I admit those are "extra" but it usually turns out that if the load is forgiving, that only takes about 12 additional shots, two foulers included.
Does break-in help? Back when I followed break-in procedures for their own sake (this is like 20 years ago) I had the impression a couple of commercial barrels I had seemed to clean a little more easily after doing it. I had more for which I could not really see any difference. I didn't have the money for custom barrels back then, so these were all commercial or military. If you have a tac rifle or a benchrest barrel you are going to clean every 10 shots or so anyway, I really have never seen a barrel build up fouling so fast that 10 rounds deteriorated it noticeably, so why bother? At the other extreme, I have had great luck firelapping barrels to reduce fouling build-up dramatically. By keeping track of the number of patches of how many strokes of what cleaner was required, I can say firelapping reduced cleaning effort in the old Garand by a factor of twelve, and it stopped fouling well-enough that it could easily shoot through an 80 round match plus 8 sighters without losing accuracy.
It seems to me obvious that an un-lapped cut-rifled barrel will have a great many more wire edges that need either burning out or burnishing than does a lapped custom barrel whose only source of trouble is the throat. My first Garand had a military barrel on it that was so rough that it could not complete a 50 round NMC before the fouling opened groups up from less than one to almost two moa. That happened between about round 40 and 50. It took serious firelapping to correct it. I had run a break-in procedure but to no avail. It was that bad.
At the other extreme, if you have a hand-lapped custom barrel and the throat is the only source of problems with burrs, you have a couple of options. You can ignore it. You can do some kind of break-in. Or, you can be extreme, as one fellow in Precision Shooting magazine was, and use several copies of your bullet of choice to lap the throat to match your bullet's ogive. In the process, burrs will be removed.
Personally, I don't know any rifle I'm not going to have to work up loads for. Unless the barrel proves to be a bad fouler, I let the load work-up process be my break-in period. I typically use Dan Newberry's round robin method for finding sweet spot loads these days, and that usually means about 21 or 24 rounds will be expended for each bullet and powder combination worked up in the gun. So, I just clean after every round the first time I run a combination through it. I don't see a purpose in cleaning every three, then every five, like you were weening an addict off an illicit substance. If you are trying to burnish something that grabs copper, you want to clean it every time to re-expose it to burnishing until it fails to grab any more. In the end, I've broken the barrel in as much as I am going to have one, and I've got a load for good accuracy with a clean barrel. I then fire a smaller sample to see how it does with fouling. I admit those are "extra" but it usually turns out that if the load is forgiving, that only takes about 12 additional shots, two foulers included.
Does break-in help? Back when I followed break-in procedures for their own sake (this is like 20 years ago) I had the impression a couple of commercial barrels I had seemed to clean a little more easily after doing it. I had more for which I could not really see any difference. I didn't have the money for custom barrels back then, so these were all commercial or military. If you have a tac rifle or a benchrest barrel you are going to clean every 10 shots or so anyway, I really have never seen a barrel build up fouling so fast that 10 rounds deteriorated it noticeably, so why bother? At the other extreme, I have had great luck firelapping barrels to reduce fouling build-up dramatically. By keeping track of the number of patches of how many strokes of what cleaner was required, I can say firelapping reduced cleaning effort in the old Garand by a factor of twelve, and it stopped fouling well-enough that it could easily shoot through an 80 round match plus 8 sighters without losing accuracy.