Break-top preference 38 S&W

M

mravery

New member
Hello all,

Hope this is the correct thread for this post.

I have recently come to the conclusion that I like the 38 S&W caliber and want to add a couple more guns to my 38 S&W collection. Currently have a Merwin Hulbert and a Colt Police Positive. Shoot them both and enjoy them. I am not looking for safe queens but rather shoot-able guns.

I reload for the caliber and have had great results with Trailboss and HP38. My preference is Trailboss (1.7-2.0gr with 145gr, .361 slug 12 BHN from MB). Yes, I know there are many discussions as to whether smokeless is safe in the earlier guns, so please lets not go down that path in this thread. ;)

I'm looking at one (or a couple) of breaktops. Prices are very reasonable but I'm not sure which brand is of higher quality. I've seen Iver Johnsons, Smiths, Hopkins and Allen and even American Arms among others recently but not sure which is better.

Any and all comments and thoughts are appreciated. Also, if you have pics, I would love to see them.

Cheers
Mark
 
I'm also a fan of these little pea-shooters. I like the fact that they're old, still get-able, and don't break the bank. The one you see below, while a little rough on the nickle, is mechanically perfect. My idea of the perfect shooter.

I also have a very nice 32 lemonsqueezer in blue.

Of all these guns that I see, the best, and most of the survivors seem to be Smiths. I've owned an Iver Johnson, and I'd consider it noticeably inferior to the Smiths. The H&A's and Merwins might be pretty good, I just can't say, since I've not owned them.

I also load wimpy smokeless loads, and the 38 here shoots very well. I think it's important to make sure the hinge and latch screws are properly tightened to keep these healthy. I monitor mine closely for any wear or looseness, and so far so good. jd

 
JD,

Thanks for the info and a very nice gun!!

What do you reload it with, which powder works best for you?
 
Here's a link for ya that has some loads specifically for breaktops. http://www.reloadammo.com/38sw.htm

I've used several of these, and others including Trailboss. I've got a couple molds for 125 gr. bullets, and figure that weight is plenty considering the pressure which we ought to be working with.

Have fun!! jd
 
Howdy

Smith and Wesson made the highest quality Top Breaks. Merwin Hulbert were probably a close second, although they were not actually Top Breaks. All the rest were also rans as far as quality went.


S&W 32 Single Action, shipped in 1889.

32%20Single%20Action_zpszhmf3orr.jpg




S&W 32 Safety Hammerless, 2nd Model, shipped in 1905.

32safetyhammerlesswithbox_zps6a26bd76.jpg




S&W 38 Single Action, 2nd Model, shipped in 1877.

38SA2ndModel01_zps0c472607.jpg




S&W 38 Double Action, 3rd Model, shipped in 1888.

38DA3rdModel_zps3371e26e.jpg




S&W 38 Safety Hammerless, 3rd Model, shipped in 1896.

38SafetyHammerless3rdModel_zps7d257cc9.jpg




I know you did not ask this, but I am going to say it anyway. I would not dream of shooting any gun made before 1900 with Smokeless powder, I do not care what powder you are talking about. It is not just a question of pressure, it also has to do with how fast the pressure spike is.

Also, bear in mind that S&W controlled the patents for making Top Break revolvers for some time. By the time those patents had expired, Iver Johnson, Hopkins & Allen and others were probably able to use steel that was up to the pressures and pressure spikes generated by Smokeless powder.

It's your money, shoot them with whatever you please. But I certainly would not use Trail Boss, it burns too fast. I would stick with Unique, or something slower.




This pair of S&W 38 Double Action Perfecteds; the blue one shipped in 1912, the nickel plated one shipped in 1917; were made late enough that I would not hesitate shooting them with Smokeless powder.

Two%20Perfecteds_zpsciysenpn.jpg
 
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I admire the looks and craftsmanship that went into these old top break revolvers, especially considering the tooling that they had 130 years ago. My Dad gave me this 38 S&W Double Action 3rd model about 7 years ago before he passed away. It was made in the late 1880's. Its been in the family a long time. His older brother gave it to him in the 1960's. Prior to that, it belonged to my grandfather. Its the only top break in my collection.
 
I have several top-break revolvers, including S&W, American, M&H, Webley, No. 2 Enfield, H&R, I.J., and others. I rarely fire any except the S&W's, Enfields and the Webleys,

I know that this will offend some top-break fans, but that design is basically weak. It is OK as long as the cartridge is also weak, but the guns were designed for and used mostly for relatively light loads. Note, I did NOT say "black powder" loads, and what I said has little to do with the powder and more to do with the joint itself. All of those guns have to have some play in the joints for the gun to open and close, and as the gun is fired, the joint surfaces (hinge and lock both) will batter and loosen. How long that takes depends on the quality of the gun, its material, and the original fitting. A soft iron gun (like most old break tops, can begin to stretch in less than 50-100 rounds. A heavy revolver like an Enfield Mk I, will go several thousand rounds before loosening up enough to be unusable or dangerous.

As others have said, the best civilian revolvers are the Webleys and the S&W guns, but even those are not as strong or trouble-free as a good swing cylinder revolver, which is why the latter are still in common use while the top-breaks are considered obsolete, and why the oft-recurring idea of a new break-top revolver in .357, .44 Magnum, 454 Casull the like is not going to happen unless there is a serious upgrade in materials, or the buyer (and various consumer organizations) will accept the idea of swapping power for a low life expectancy.

Would YOU buy a gun for the advantages of a break-top if the maker clearly stated that it would have to be discarded after, say, 200 shots?

Jim
 
When I started in private security I borrowed my dad's 4" H&R model 926 in 38 S&W. It was the only handgun I had available and the company didn't have any to issue at the time. I carried it for about 4 months before my dad helped me get my 6" Colt Python. My dad later sold the 926. It may sound odd but because it was his I wish I had that 926 in my collection today.
 
What do you think about HP38?

Is it slow enough?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I really don't have a recommendation. Sorry I was misleading, as I said earlier I never shoot any of my 19th Century revolvers with Smokeless Powder. Looking at a powder burn chart, HP 38 is a little bit faster than Unique. My go to powder for modern revolvers is Unique, but I really do not have any advice to give you about a Smokeless powder to use in 19th Century guns. No experience with that at all, sorry if I sounded like I had experience with it.

Suggest you ask the question at the Smith and Wesson Forum, which is where I have read about using certain Smokeless powders to simulate the pressure curve of Back Powder.
 
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