Break the Law?

AnthonyR

New member
Should we follow the Anti-Freedom laws? If we all break them, can they arrest all of us? We could make our own "Hi-Capicity" magazines. We can put bayonets and detachable 75-rd magazines on our SKS's. We can open carry whenever. When does it stop? If I lived in California, they sure as Hell wouldn't get my SKS or AK.

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"Those that give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
 
Personally, I believe that nonviolent, civil disobedience is not only morally right, but is also quite necessary in this civil rights struggle. Each individual will need to decide what they are willing to risk. This may be one reason the anti's are pushing felonies so hard. That way they can trap you in a downward spiral - you practice the 'wrong' kind of civil disobedience, get convicted of a felony, and then you look like a bad guy who can't carry a firearm ...

Still, those who can should help grind the system to a halt with civil disobedience to support the RKBA.
 
I'm doing my part, as small as it is, it should soon grow.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited December 29, 1999).]
 
I believe civil disobedience is a good thing. But, given the realities of the legal system, who can afford it? The test cases have got to be people with the money and stamina to deal with a long drawn out court battle.
I won't give up my guns, I will practice civil disobedience if neccesary, but I'll just keep my mouth shut until they come for me. I can't afford not to. I'll deal with it as best I can when I've got no choice.
Unfortunately, this is just what the antis are counting on. :(
 
Sometimes, civil disobedience is the morally correct thing to do. If you were to be marched off to a death camp, would you go willingly because the law says so? If you were told to surrender your guns so as to make it safe for your tormentors to lynch you, would you do so because it's the law? If you were ordered to slay individuals merely because of their race, national origin or religion, would you do so because the law tells you?

Basically, there are two types of laws. Malum in Se and Malum Prohibitum. The first is wrong because it is naturally wrong (rape, murder, arson). You don't need mom, dad, or the government to tell you that the act is illegal or immoral. Malum Prohibitum is that body of law which proscribes certain conduct (unlicensed driving, jaywalking, having over 50 lbs of blackpowder in your garage). It is the latter from of law which is subject to abuse by our legislative bodies.

In choosing to defy the a Malum Prohibitum law, you put yourself at peril of incarceration or monetary fines or both. As we know, not all laws are right nor should all laws be blindly obeyed. There is a moral obligation to do the right thing and not the lawful thing. Pick your battle.

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt
 
I suspect that every resistance movement in history has been under-reported while in progress and over-reported afterwards. Can't make the counter-insurgency troops' job too easy by telling all what you are doing.

I also suspect that for many people, getting caught puts family and dependents in immediate financial and other danger which is more frightening that potential greater perils in ten years, maybe...

Just like in USSR, people might be retiring enemy personell as we speak, but neither side would want to publicize that just yet. NKVD certainly wasn't willing to admit their lack of popularity and their personal mortality...and the forest brotherhood was far too busy dodging flak and had reasons to keep quiet.

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Oleg,

Your background and skills are becoming more important every day. I truly fear a time is coming when your knowledge and skills will be critical to America.

I sure hope we can get this done at the ballot box.
 
i agree with anthony. these laws are stupid. like the one about putting bayonettes on sks's. what is the deal with that? have there been alot of drive by bayonettings or something? and detatchable magazines; its stupid. what possible advantage does putting a detatchable clip on an sks give you other than convenience?

i also agree with gayfox. im not going to go looking for trouble wit the government but if they want trouble fom me theyre going to get it. you cant go looking for trouble but if it comes your way take care of it

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I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me
Phil 4:13
 
When we gave up the draft and went with an all volunteer force (read that mercenary force), one of tht unintended consequences (or intended if you were rich or had social status) was that a broad cross section of the population would not be represented in uniform. That has come to pass. As Nicholson said in A FEW GOOD MEN, people don't want to know who or what it takes to make them safe AND KEEP THEM FREE. That movie was dead on about that. The founding fathers mistrusted a large standing army and specifically called for the the "raising of a national army" in time of national crisis from wihtout and never intended them garrisoned on this soil any longer then to take care of the problem at hand. Up until the cold war, that was the norm. Otherwise they believed it best left it to the local militias to provide for protection during local crises. As we learned from Vietnam and the resistance in the streets, it is mighty hard to shoot the people in the streets lined up against you, when they are your sons, daughters, cousins, brothers and sisters and friends. That was the beginning of the end, not something Cronkite said about TET. Now we have a national police force(FBI and other Federal agencies) and segments of the police forces that more closely resemble and operate as military forces. We have a whole generation of disillusioned ex-military folks walking the streets (remember OK City)facing gunho mercenary military and paramilitary organizations (Waco and Ruby Ridge) facing off with each other each claiming the moral high ground, presided over by an Executive branch and Congress that is increasingly elitist and detached from the plight of the common man; with less and less understanding as to when and where to apply proper military and police force, because they were never on the short stick and had to take responsiblities for those decisions themselves; just read opinion polls (way to many recent examples to list here). My goodness they practically made gods of the two capital hills policemen that were shot (a terrible tragedy) and killed protecting there butts, with very little reflection as to why this guy was trying to get to them. Couldn't have been anything they had done. He was just a deranged gunman. Right? Is there any wonder why we are having the problems we are having? No knock entries, confiscation of private property without due process, the confiscation of large sums of moneys as drug related without proof or reasonable suspicion (I trust you all saw the yellow journalism piece that demonstrated 80% of our money supply is physically tainted by cocaine, so naturally the drug dogs key on to it), some or all of which is used to finance these departments and agencies. If we can not tax you to get what we want, then will take your property and sell it prior to the proper determination in a court of law- and the Judical system supports these basic violations of liberty, because they sit in their ivory towers situated on the moral high ground surrounded by their praetorian guards (and legally carried firearms). Just read a few opinions and read some of the questions these judges ask and you will see how far out of touch they are. When the lines form and you look across the otherside, whose face will be there? Will it be someone you know and love, or, well you know what the alternative is. Ok, I'm off my high horse. Just needed to vent a little. May God in his wisdom protect and defend this great land and shine his blessings upon us.
 
I seem to remember reading somewhere that a couple of hundred years ago a few wealthy guys got fed up living under some laws forced down their throats by an eliteist government. These POed guys were in the minority in the
general population of their time but they all got together and made a list of a bunch of things they were upset about and in effect said "enough is enough" and we're not going to take this anymore. They said they would all stick together and risk everything to try to set up some better way of doing things.

As I remember they had it pretty rough for awhile but I think it all worked out for the best. I heard it slowly fell apart over a period of time but as I remember their system made a lot of sense to me when I read about it.

I wish I could remember more details but I don't read much anymore and I haven't seen anyhing about these guys on TV so maybe their idea didn't work out after all. Sure hope things never get that bad here.

RKBA!
 
I use to think that quiet, steady change for the better would slowly happen at the ballot box. All we had to do was "recruit" and educate and all would be well, sooner or later. Now I believe that this is no longer an option. What few 'rights' are left are thrown like scraps of meat to the great unwashed masses out there - and we mustn't ever bite the proverbial hand that feeds us all... So what to do? You can run, but can't hide (at least not forever). Civil disobedience sounds great in theory, but I'm with Grayfox, I'll say NO WAY! only when 'they' come for MY guns. I'm afraid not many of us today can truly 'afford' to go to jail just based on our principles. The antis' best strategy is simply to divide and conqueor a little at a time...an individual here, a community there...so no one really notices what's going on. It seems to be working, just look around. Yes, a bloody fight will come in the end. And in the end, it truly will be 'the end' of all what we know, say or do. Am I pessimist and a cynic, you bet I am! Is there any hope? Maybe, but I fear that 1999 will be remembered as one of the 'good ol' days' when we didn't realize how good things were. Something big has to break our way, and soon. Something has to happen, to allow the pendulum to swing back the other way...before it's too late and the last gun is taken from the last cold, dead hand...forever.... May it not be your gun or your hand. Any questions?

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ff ...save the 2nd. No fate but what we make.
 
"They can have my gun when I take a better one from the warm, dead paws of a JBT"

That, btw, is my humble opinion on altering arms to conform to laws...don't do it, unless you want to add an extra step of ambushing an enemy for a better tool (with which you may or may not be familiar).

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Oleg

http://dd-b.net/RKBA
 
Oleg,
Just for a paranoid moment:

What if that is the REAL reason for developing "smart guns"?
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Anthony,
You asked if we all break the law, can we all be arrested?

Sure, and confined too!

It probably would take two companies of troops to incarcerate 20,000 people or so in an arena like the Astrodome.

The "detainees" would be indoors. There are bathrooms and lots of floor space for the judge(s), etc.

Could be done. Do I expect it? No. But the U.S. government "relocated" thousands of Americans of Japanese, German, and Italian descent in the '40s. They'd be better at it now and I think our neighbors would be even LESS inclined to help us.

Never sell a tyranical government short in its ability to protect itself. ;)

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited December 31, 1999).]
 
Dennis said: "Never sell a tyranical government short in its ability to protect itself."

Is this not the problem? Is not the government an extension of ourselves? For the people, by the people and all that? No Dennis is right, We the people are no longer in control of the government. So what can one person do? Not much. A bunch of us get together and write our reps and finally get that rep to side with us. Does it do any good? He may vote our way for this one issue, but either no one else votes his way or they change the bill and then they vote for it. Our federal government is just to big. The only way to tame the monster to to cut it's funding off.

Maybe instead of fighting for our RKBA, we should be fighting to do away with the feds power to tax incomes. Do away with their funding and they could not enforce the laws they have. Then the fight would be on a state level. It's a thought.



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Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
Civil Disobedience is a must. When someone says you must obey, "because it's the law," remind them that Dred Scott, among others, remained in slavery (through a Supreme Court ruling) for the same reason.

[This message has been edited by Destructo6 (edited January 01, 2000).]
 
Bookkie makes a great point - we'd have a much better chance to win if the battle was on the state level. Unfortunately, the Feds are firmly entrenched and are not about to move for anyone....and cutting off their sources of revenue would leave them with only one option.....

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ff ...save the 2nd. No fate but what we make.
 
Although it was in 1875, the Indiana State Supreme Court voiced the same opinion of many of you (and me).

Sumner v. Beeler 50 Indiana 341, 342 (1875)

"All persons are presumed to know the law, and if they act under an unconstitutional enactment of the legislature, they do so at their peril, and must take the consequences."



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Hoka-hey
 
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