Brass to short?

brass76

Inactive
Hi new to this forum and to handloading :)
So I started with some once fired brass mostly from my gun but not all. I trimmed to proper length and have been working up loads and now I'm starting to reload the twice fired brass but I'm finding now that after firing the brass is shorter then the "trim to length" and I'm afraid that my accuracy will be different because the amount of case that is in contact with the bullet will be less? And is this common? I was expecting to be trimming not coming up short? :/
 
Brass bloats (swells) when it's fired. Period.

A common sizing die comes down from the top, DOES NOT push all the bloat back in, and doesn't reach the lower case at all.
Taper in the die prevents full length resizing (even with 'Small Base' dies),
The shell holder also prevents dies from full length resize.

There are two common ways to resize the lower case,
1. Stright wall cases, like semi-retired handgun cases, can use an orifice (hole) type die and be pushed through.
These are available for common reloading machines.
2. Tapered cases can be restored to SAAMI specification with a case rolling machine.
The cases are rolled between two particular & precisely made dies that roll the bloat up to the mouth of the case.
Case Pro machines are the only case roller I know of made for home use, and they are expensive, around $1,100.

As for trim to minimum, no issues there, I find (and I'm sure there will be a ton of argument),
The trim to length plays the LEAST roll in accuracy.
I trim to minimum on semi-autos without mercy and have zero issues.

I actually trim everything to minimum with the exception of bench rifles.
A tiny bit short hurts nothing.
 
Generally you do not have to trim after each firing. What was the case length originally before trimming, after the first trim and now?
 
Brass bloats (swells) when it's fired. Period.

If we are going to say the case bloats we should change the word swells to smells. My cases do not bloat when fired, my cases form to the chamber. And then there is that part I always mention when reloaders start explaining what happens when the trigger is pulled.

I have formed cases that shortened .035" before I fired them, I have fired cases that shortened .030" when fired that is enough to make a strong reloader get dizzy and a cause an out of shape reloader to pass out. Not me, but if my cases bloated I believe I would quit reloading.

Back to one of my wildcats again, the case neck is .217" long, I formed the cases with necks that were .375" +/- a few. after that I formed the cases from cases that were .041" longer, like magic, I then had more bullet hold. And then there is that argument about the length of the neck and enough bullet hold, my 300 Win Mag case necks measure about .270" long, if the 300 Win MAg neck is considered short why isn't my wildcat neck way too short?.

F. Guffey
 
Last edited:
I understand, there are many reloaders reading this that do not have a clue what is being said, as long as they believe they can move the shoulder on a case back with a die that has full lengths case body support they never will....understand. And then, there are the bumpers; I ask; "How do you do that?".

F. Guffey
 
243winxb, most if not all are still above the min length, I trimmed to the 2.015, just surprised after firing they were shorter. And was wondering if it would change the results I've been getting. Seems get everything is a variable (OAL, seating depth, charge, primer), figugured that the amount of case in contact with the bullet may change things?
 
Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading!

Like JH, I suspect though I have no proof that too short is the least factor and maybe not factor in accuracy (assuming you have not trimmed half the neck down - having been married for 20 some years I know when to pu8t a caveat into a issue !)

Your neck tension will be the same bullet to bullet assuming all else is equal and that is what counts.

Could it throw you off a hair at 500 yards? Maybe. But I can think of a dozen things that would do more.
 
Brass 76- I trimmed to the 2.015
2.015" is the maximum, brass should not be longer and reloaded, at least for a new person. Did you mean 2.005"? Even at the minimum SAAMI, you should be OK. On a hunting rifle, i don't think it will make a difference.

My 243 win has a lot less neck length then your 338 . I trim as little as possible. For the target gun, i trim if the brass gets over maximum. The other 243 gets the normal .010" removed from the listed SAAMI maximum case length.
 
Yes I trimmed to the max length, kinda thought that's what you where supposed to do. Thanks for all the helpful info. I've really been enjoying the craft and I thinks it's coming together well! Very happy with last load! Hoping to make up some more and shoot a few more groups before I load a bunch :)
 
Your neck tension will be the same bullet to bullet assuming all else is equal and that is what counts.

Neck tension? And then there is that tension thing being the same from bullet to bullet etc.. I can only guess some of you reloaders are purchasing your cases from the same store Jack purchased his beans.

If bullet hold stayed the same from bullet to bullet there would be no need for annealing. It was not that long a go reloaders had a saying about starting over; all a reloader was required to do was fire a case 5 times and then full length size to start over. And I ask; "How is it possible to start over? The case has been fired 5 times. I do not have any of the magic cases, every time I fire a case the case increases in it's ability to resist sizing. I use methods and or techniques to increases the presses' ability to overcome the cases' ability to resist sizing.

F. Guffey
 
All the neck does is hold the bullet centered (more or less) with the bore.
A small fraction difference in length of that neck makes zero difference in the grand scheme of things.... The bullet is still centered with the bore, the neck will still expand to release bullet & the neck will still seal up against the chamber to hold back the lion's share of gasses.
 
.338 Federal uses the same numbers as .308 Win. Trim-to is 2.005". Max OAL is 2.015 -.020". That'd be 1.995".
As long as the cases are between 1.995" and 2.015" you're fine. Best to have all the same length though. As mentioned, you only need to trim if the cases are longer than 2.015". Quickest check is by using your vernier as a case length gauge. Lock it at the 2.015" and check. And don't forget to chamfer and deburr.
 
Trim to the minimum length after resizing. It is good that 243winxb teased it out of you that you are trimming to maximum length. You don't want to be at maximum length because you don't want the case neck being pinched in the chamber throat. That is the whole reason you are trimming, to keep the case neck out of the throat.

I have not found any measurable changes or anything happening on target with cases trimmed excessively or even, randomly. It is possible work hardening might do something, but, it all depends on how many angels are dancing on the bullet when it gets launched. What you see with internet experts who don't actually shoot anything but their mouths, is that all the unsolvable theoretical issues they talk about, have a tiny affect compared to sight alignment and trigger pull. Shooting is a skill. I was squadded one day with a President's 100 shooter, his reloading techniques were barbarous. He filed the ends of cases when they felt tight in the sizing die,threw his charges, did not worry about case or bullet run out. He did none of that "bench rest" stuff. He was concerned that his ammunition chambered, extracted, and whether the bullets were good. Yet he was a National Champ. He could read the wind, and his bullets went where he pulled the trigger. The difference was between him and internet Goofy Dick experts is that his sights stayed on target throughout his trigger pull and his follow through was consistent, shot after shot.

I have been creating 270 Win cases out of 30-06, because I have 5 gallon buckets of 30-06 brass from my NRA Highpower days with a 30-06, and after sizing, the resized 30-06 are about 2.500". According to the book, max case length for a 270 Win is 2.540" . I have taken my 270/30-06 cases out to CMP Talladega and they shoot inside the ten ring all the way out to 300 yards. I have not tried them at 600 yards because I don't plan ever shooting at anything that far away with a sporter rifle. Though, in the interest of science, I may get bored and want to see what happens at that distance with my hunting rifles. I did test one 30-06 M70 with a 6X Burris on top, and my seven shot group at 600 yards was 7 3/4" in size. I would have put more rounds into the ten ring, out that box of ammunition, but shot 13 rounds just getting the scope zero'd at that distance.

HB9skFG.jpg


Had a dead nuts 300 yard zero, so wanted to see what would happen at 600 yards.

jzQLKOZ.jpg


Out of the first 13 sighting rounds, with a dead center 300 yard zero, only 7 managed to hit the target!

LYGQutP.jpg


Once dialed in though, good group.

FT1YVAK.jpg


My 270 Win FN Deluxe is not as accurate as the M70 in 30-06

O1h5FOw.jpg


but even with 30-06 cases necked down to 270 Win, and thus, .040" short, it still shoots fine for a hunting rifle.

GAGKAof.jpg
 
Last edited:
Don't worry about the brass being too short. Years ago I was trimming 220 Swift brass, and being new at reloading, I trimmed the brass short. Not just a little short. I trimmed it way short. Well, it was all the brass I had, so I loaded and used it, and reloaded again and again. Accuracy was great.
 
Back
Top