brass getting dark right after cleaning?

S

Shadow9mm

New member
Hey. So the last couple batches of brass have been going from super bright and shiny after coming out of the wet tumbler. However after they dry they take on a tarnish. I have not changed how I am processing my brass. I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.

using tap water with pins
1-hot water with dawn a dash of lemi shine for 30min for an initial rinse
2-hot water with a frankford arsenal cleaning packet, 2h
3-rinse out all the suds with tap water
4-put in brass seperator and spin until the pins and most of the water comes out
5-put on a towel and roll around and toss in the towel
6-into a plastic container with silica gel packs for 2 days to pull the remaining moisture

I have been using this method for several batches of brass with great results. all of a sudden my brass starts getting dingy as it is drying... Im sure my process has room to improve. but I just cant figure out what I am doing wrong....
 
It's normal for some darkening to occur with exposure to air because the acid in the cleaner has left unoxidized bare metal exposed to the oxygen in the air.

I don't have the Frankford arsenal cleaner MSDS, and if they use a different acid than the citric acid in Lemishine, that could be a factor, too. Some of the chemical dip-type cleaners use sulfamic acid, for example. I would try simply not mixing them. See what either method will do by itself. Also, heat from the hot water will accelerate any reactions involved. If your final rinse is with hot water and didn't do that before, that could certainly explain it.

Another approach would be to clean with just the Lemishine (or citric acid), pour it off, or just set the end of the drum upright in the sink and let cold water run into it for a while to get the acid out. Then put in some car wash and wax solution and tumble of for a bit. That should coat the cases with wax to resist oxidation if it offends you.

As to why you didn't use to have a problem and now you do, that suggests something has to have changed. I have no way to tell what from where I sit.
 
Finish dishwasher tab and a splash of lemishine for an hour. I did a quick rinse but could probably skipped that, 1st rinse was clear and no suds.
 

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So in thing i might not have been rinsing well enough... thats my best guess.
Usually I use the kitchen sprayer and get rid of all the bubbles. then fill up with clean water and shake well and drain and rinse with the sprayer again.

This time I did my normal rinse, but after filling up with clean water, rather than shaking it around, I put it back on the machine for about 5min. then did my normal rinse. Have them drying now. Hopefully they wont tarnish again.
 
tarnish is caused bt the metal reacting with oxygen. Possibly there may be some chemical residue left by the detergent causing that to accelerate so a good rinse will not hurt. You might try adding some water soluble wax to the rinse water or using a car wash product that contains wax
 
Well I do like the yard fairly neat and the truck comes and goes but you are spot on (pun not intended but not avoided) when it comes to cases, very bright and shiny is the only acceptable standard.

My wife's dad would not let the kids run the tractors on the public side of the farm, those rows had to be straight, you were judged by how straight and no self respecting farmer had even a hint of bend let alone crooked rows.

Brass is the same. If its not bright and shiny you have failed and failed miserably.

You are then only allowed to shoot in garbage pits.

Clean it up right, dry polish it or any combination but it has to be shiny!

If it ages (over a reasonable time) to less than bright and shiny, then run it through the tumbler sand get it back up to snuff.
 
The brass cases are so clean the bare brass tarnishes easily after drying .
Now you need to treat the super clean cases with something like Rooster Labs - Rooster Bright Brass Cartridge Case Polish . This will keep them bright and stop the tarnishing .

This tarnishing of water cleaned cases is one reason I went back to dry Treated Walnut Shell Media ... cleans , polishes and protects without all the water mess , drying and tarnishing ... dry treated media is just simpler and easier for me to do .
Gary
 
gwpercle said:
The brass cases are so clean the bare brass tarnishes easily after drying .
Now you need to treat the super clean cases with something like Rooster Labs - Rooster Bright Brass Cartridge Case Polish . This will keep them bright and stop the tarnishing .

This tarnishing of water cleaned cases is one reason I went back to dry Treated Walnut Shell Media ... cleans , polishes and protects without all the water mess , drying and tarnishing ... dry treated media is just simpler and easier for me to do .
Gary
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I'm thinking I may just have to go back to the car wash n wax formulas. From what I have read it is perfectly fine to use. The wax left behind is very minimal and should not cause any issues with the powder. In the 1 batch I tried it cleaned the casings very well and left them very shiny. I still don't like the idea, but it may be my best option.
 
You can also two-step the process. Use wet cleaning to get rid of deposits and oxides, then, when the cases are dry, put them in plain walnut in a vibratory tumbler to scrape the new oxide layer off. With internally cleaned cases with clean primer pockets going into the vibratory unit, you don't have to worry about lead residue. Walnut usually leaves a little walnut oil on the brass to help keep it from tarnishing, but you can add polish to speed things up and add that for you, if you want.

Personally, I just want the brass clean and for it to be easy to see where it fall in the grass. If the tarnish is affecting that, I want it off. If it isn't that dark, I don't care.

Another thing you can try is two-staging the wet tumbling. Put your acidic solution in first to get oxides off and react with carbonates in the primer residue. Then, halfway through, pour most of that water off and add fresh water and soap flakes. The alkalinity of the soap will neutralize any remaining acid. Soap may also offer enough protection to prevent further tarnish. It will lubricate the action of the pins on the brass by making the conditions slippery, so the pins hitting the surface result in a smoother, less oxidation-prone surface.
 
I clean two way, Lucas Oil Metal Polish with corn cob. Best dry method there is, bar none. Extremely clean cases, they don't tarnish after, and they are slick enough, that straight walled cases don't even need lube.

Wet, I use the Woolite Dark with Lemi-Shine and cold water. I am leery of hot water due to the dezincification issues. After I dump the cleaning solution, I do another 5 minutes with cold water only. Then into the dryer. Dryer is a duct fan into the base of a 5 gallon bucket with a 10" plastic hydroponics plastic strainer on top. Very happy with the results. No pins, no retarnish.
 
MarkCO said:
I clean two way, Lucas Oil Metal Polish with corn cob. Best dry method there is, bar none. Extremely clean cases, they don't tarnish after, and they are slick enough, that straight walled cases don't even need lube.

Wet, I use the Woolite Dark with Lemi-Shine and cold water. I am leery of hot water due to the dezincification issues. After I dump the cleaning solution, I do another 5 minutes with cold water only. Then into the dryer. Dryer is a duct fan into the base of a 5 gallon bucket with a 10" plastic hydroponics plastic strainer on top. Very happy with the results. No pins, no retarnish.
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Hot water does not cause dezinkification. Is will speed up chemical reactions. So if the concentration of chemicals is too strong it could cause issues. Also if you leave it in too long, even with cold water and a normal concentration you could still have issues.
 
Used to do that with walnut. Got sick and tired of 4hr tumbling times, smaller batches, and wearing a mask to sift the casings out cause of all the dust. Not to mention still having pieces of media all over the place when I was done.
 
Used to do that with walnut. Got sick and tired of 4hr tumbling times, smaller batches, and wearing a mask to sift the casings out cause of all the dust. Not to mention still having pieces of media all over the place when I was done.
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I keep reading about dust, never had any. Maybe the case lube settles it.

I can run 200 rounds in my machine (I tend more to 100).

If you machine is too small a drum or keg, get a bigger one!

My process works for me, others like the wet and that is fine but then we see the complaints and the fussing.

Tumbled brass stay bright for 2 years or so. Rerun it if it ages on you.

If I see dirty brass I wonder what other bad habits they have? Thank god no one can see my shop!
 
The dust issue can be mitigated by putting a clothes drier sheet in with the media. I found walnut much dustier than corncob, but when either one has seen much use, you can put the tumbler on the back porch at night and run it with the lid off and a flashlight or a laser pointer beam will show you the dust. With much use, it has a fair amount of primer residue in it which contains water-soluble lead compounds, so you want to keep kids, especially, away from it.

We had a member with a friend who did lead testing professionally and had this friend check out his loading facilities for lead toxicity. No toxic levels at the benches, despite spent primers being kicked out. No dangerous level even on his bullet casting bench. But on the floor and all around the vibratory tumbler, that set off the toxicity alarms.

Anyway, I just tumble brass that is already clean for final polish now and am not putting any more dirty brass in it. After over 40 years in service, that machine disserves a break anyway.

The Lucas Oil polish looks like a good product. No ammonia or acid, so it's brass safe.
 
RC20 said:
I keep reading about dust, never had any. Maybe the case lube settles it.

I can run 200 rounds in my machine (I tend more to 100).

If you machine is too small a drum or keg, get a bigger one!

My process works for me, others like the wet and that is fine but then we see the complaints and the fussing.

Tumbled brass stay bright for 2 years or so. Rerun it if it ages on you.

If I see dirty brass I wonder what other bad habits they have? Thank god no one can see my shop!
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yeah, I was running batches of 500 9mm at a time, about 250 223. With my wet tumbler I ahve over doubled that number. about 1200 9mm, and about 600 223 per batch. plus it generally only takes 2hrs, vs the 4 in the tumbler. meaning I can process 6 batches in a day if I need to, vs 3..
 
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