Brand New To Reloading, My Friend That Is In To Reloading Has Me Paranoid? What To Buy And Do?

[adn258]

So with ammo prices being insane now, I'm thinking that I have to reload. I've never reloaded before at all, but I understand the basics at least in theory. I've owned and fired a ton of guns, but I've never reloaded.

My friend has been reloading for years (mostly rifle rounds). He tells me that it's essential that you clean each case in a tumbler, then clean all the primer pocket, trim each case to be sized exactly proper, then lube all your cases, and finally check each round for proper powder amounts as modern dies can still be off like 1/10th of a grain even after they are adjusted to the proper powder drop amount after of course seating a primer, and then finally seat a bullet and measure.

Is my friend just being way too picky? I'm mostly wanted to reload the guns that I shoot the most I.E. 45 ACP and 9mm for my pistols. I've read certain posts on here that some people NEVER have trimmed their 45ACP and similar pistol calibers. I like the idea of reloading, but I want some sort of mechanism that doesn't take forever which is why I like the idea of a rotary press. He told me they are a waste of money, and that not cleaning primer pockets is DANGEROUS

What should glean from my friends advice? What should I do to start because there is so much information about what you should do that it's overwhelming?

 

[Rangerrich99]

You don' t have to do all that to reload pistol rounds.

Tumble them if you want; I do just out of habit and I like shiny cases, but it's not necessary.

You don't have to clean pistol primer pockets unless they're excessively dirty. I haven't cleaned a single pistol case primer pocket in three or more years. It has never been a problem. The other option is to simply throw away any excessively dirty brass, and simply pick up a few cases at teh next range session.

You don't have to trim pistol cases; I have never done so in the entire time I've been reloading, with the lone exception of my .44 mag brass that I've set aside for hunting.

Pistol cases don't need to be lubed, ever.

You do want to be reasonably sure that your powder drops are consistent, and the average powder measure does have some degree of error, say +/-0.2 grains, sometimes another tenth or so depending on the exact brand/model and what type of powder you're using at the time. But it doesn't have to be dead solid perfect every time either.

In my target pistol rounds I'll usually accept a variance of about +/- 0.3 grains. The exception would be for 9mm, as many recipes have only about a 0.5-0.4 grain window, so I'll accept a 0.2 grain variance. It should be noted here that very few powders that I've used will exceed 0.2 grains variance from drop-to-drop. It's just not that common.

For the first 500 rounds I will measure the COAL each finished round, but once I verify that every one of those rounds has come in at the acceptable length or slightly under, I don't continue to keep doing it. I do drop every one through a chamber checker. Any rounds that don't pass the CC get measured and some get recycled.

Of course, at the beginning of each reloading session, I will measure each round for the first 30 or so. It's just me being careful.

I assume that by 'rotary' you mean either a turret press or a progressive.

I'm one of those that believes a brand-new reloader probably should've start on a progressive, but there are people on this board that strenuously disagree.

If one of your options includes a turret, Lee makes one that many here are fond of. I never used one, but I have a friend that has one and loves it. I have a Redding T-7 that I think is basically the cat's meow, but it is more expensive. Either way, I think for your stated needs a turret might be the beset option.

Sooner or later a bunch more people will chime in and give you more info than you can digest in one sitting.

Good luck.

 

[Rangerrich99]

Sorry, should've included this above.

My typical run-down for how I reload pistol rounds:

1) tumble brass for 1 hour.

2) Resize/deprime all brass. Throw away any that show cracks, stretch marks. Set at least one piece of brass aside.

3) bell all brass.

4) reprime all brass.

5) set up and calibrate powder measure. I usually do 10 test drops. All ten must fall within expected tolerances before I begin reloading.

6) Measure and drop powder into 100 cases.

7) Take the unprimed piece of brass you set aside and seat a projectile in it. Adjust depth until you're within COAL. Adjust crimp as directed in die instructions. Now your seater die is adjusted properly. Seat projectiles.

8) Reloading cycle complete. Repeat as necessary.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

My friend has been reloading for years (mostly rifle rounds).

Loading for centerfire, bottleneck rifle is a different world from reloading handgun ammo for plinking or even target practice.

He tells me that it's essential that you clean each case in a tumbler, then clean all the primer pocket, trim each case to be sized exactly proper, then lube all your cases,...

Nope. Clean cases make your dies and brass last longer but the reality is that unless you have brass you picked out of the mud at an outdoor range, you can probably reload it without tumbling. I recently scrounged a bunch of fired 9mm brass at a local indoor range and many of the cases didn't even look like they had been fired. They are so clean that I think if I run them through walnut media they'll come out LESS shiny.

I've been reloading for handgun for about fifteen years. I have never trimmed a case for length -- I check them once in awhile (rarely), and I haven't yet found one that needed to be trimmed. I tumble before decapping, and I have never needed to clean a primer pocket. (Yes, I have the tools -- I just don't need it, so I don't use it.)

Using carbide dies with straight-wall handgun cases you don't need to lube the cases. Despite this, I prefer to use a light spritz with the aerosol verson of Hornady's One-Shot case lube. It dries almost instantly, leaves no mess to be wiped off after loading, and I definitely need less effort when pulling the lever on resizing, so the lube does make a difference. But ... it's my preference, it's not required.

... and finally check each round for proper powder amounts as modern dies can still be off like 1/10th of a grain even after they are adjusted to the proper powder drop amount after of course seating a primer, and then finally seat a bullet and measure.

Again, precision rifle is a different universe than handgun plinking. For handgun plinking ammo 1/10th of a grain doesn't make any difference. At 25 feet or fifty feet, you can't hold the gun steady enough to see what difference 1/10th of a grain will make in your point of impact.

Is my friend just being way too picky?

Yes, absolutely.

I'm mostly wanted to reload the guns that I shoot the most I.E. 45 ACP and 9mm for my pistols. I've read certain posts on here that some people NEVER have trimmed their 45ACP and similar pistol calibers. I like the idea of reloading, but I want some sort of mechanism that doesn't take forever which is why I like the idea of a rotary press.

I started with a single stage press, which is what most people recommend for starting out. That lasted less than a month. For reloading the quantities of ammo that a handgun shooter goes through, even an occasional shooter, single stage is too slow. I moved immediately to a Lee Turret Press (four station), and I now own the Lee Turret Press and two progressive presses.

He told me they are a waste of money, and that not cleaning primer pockets is DANGEROUS

IMHO, your friend is an elitist of the first order, and his advice is worthless.

 

[Colorado Redneck]

Re: post #3
Between steps 6 and 7, check to be sure the charged cases all have powder and the charge looks consistent...no double charge and no squib loads. Just takes a minute, and helps ensure you don't have an accidento.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

To follow Rangerrich99's step-by-step procedure example, here's how I do .45 ACP on the Lee Turret Press:

1) tumble brass for 1 hour. (Sometimes two hours, but I use corn cob, which is less aggressive than walnut shells)

2) I deprime all brass using a universal decapping die in the single stage press. This die, and this step, does not resize.

3) One of the most frequent problems reported with progressive presses is priming. I choose to skip that -- I prime off the press, using a Lee hand-held priming tool. I usually have a few hundred cleaned, decapped and primed cases on my bench, waiting for the next reloading session.

The rest follows the sequence of the Lee 4-die set in the 4-station Turret Press:

4) I lay out a batch of fifty cases on a sheet of cardboard and give them a light spritz with the aerosol case lube, then let them dry for a minute or two.

5) Station 1 resizes. I have the decapping pin removed from the sizing dies for all calibers.

6) Station 2 flares (bells) and charges the case. With the Lee die set, the flaring die is a "powder through" die, with the Lee Autodisk powder measure mounted to it. I use Winchester 231, which meters well in the Autodisk, so I usually check a sample at the start of a session, verify that it's still dropping the right charge, then ignore it. After this step on each round I look into each case. If I see powder, I'm happy.

7) Station 3 is bullet seating. No bullet feeder, so I have to manually place the bullet on the case, and pull the handle.

9) Station 4 is Lee's factory Crimp Die. I don't use the seating die to crimp -- the FCD is my crimping step.

It takes a lot longer to describe the steps than it does to load a round. I have seen reports of people claiming to do as much as 200 rounds per hour using the Lee Turret Press. I dismiss those reports as fairy tales. I typically average about 50 rounds per hour (including the lube spray). I could speed it up if I had to, but this is a nice, comfortable pace for me and it loads enough to meet my needs. My concern is that if I try to push the speed, I'll overlook something -- like maybe checking each case to ensure that I actually dropped powder into it.

For production rates over maybe 75 to 100 rounds per hour, to be realistic you need a progressive press with a case feeder, primer feeder, and maybe a bullet feeder.

The difference between the Lee Turret Press and a progressive press is that with the turret press each pull of the handle only does one operation. It's really a semi-automated (auto-advance) single stage press. I need four pulls of the handle to make one round, but it goes fast because I don't have to touch the dies.

A progressive press has each station doing something all at the same time. That's how it's faster -- each pull of the handle spits out a round. BUT ... each pull of the handle is doing five different things, in five different stations. It's a lot to keep track of for a beginner.

8) Reloading cycle complete. Repeat as necessary.

 

[44 AMP]

Pistol cases don't need to be lubed, ever.

Because you said "ever" this is bad advice.

asn258, your friend isn't completely wrong, he's just obsessive and is wrong about what you HAVE to do or how far you need to go with it.

I started reloading rifle and pistol rounds in the early 70s. Never had a tumbler until almost a decade later. Clean cases are nice, but they aren't a necessity. All the brass needs to be is free of dirt/dust or any other contaminate that creates grit between the case and the die or the chamber.

Cleaning primer pockets isn't normally necessary just a good idea. It takes quite a bit of buildup in the pocket to create an actually dangerous situation, such as a high primer slamfire in an autoloader. Once in a while is good, every time isn't needed but hurts nothing.

we can give you detailed step by step instructions in overabundant detail, indeed some posters have already started doing that.

My advice is buy a book. Buy 2 or 3
then READ and re-read the how to sections. THEN start looking at tools and such. The data sections are quite precise, and for good reason. Some things need to be done with care and precision, other things have an amount of leeway.

Beware of information overload and getting lost in the minutae of certain disciplines. Loading for casual pistol shooting and loading for benchrest put 10 shots in one hole or for winning an 800yd match have the basics in common but beyond that are different.

I'd also say, for now, not to worry about things not directly involved with loading the .45acp and 9mm you are most interested in.

And, do your best to learn and understand the reasons we do the things we do when reloading. We're here to answer any questions we can, and some folks here have a lot of good, valid information. But there is also some useless noise, so don't take everything on the internet as gospel.

Do some study, come back with your questions, and we'll help explain the whats and whys as best we can.

ITs not rocket science and for me its simpler than running my computer. Once you get some basics down, it gets simpler in general though still complex in detail sometimes.

 

[noylj]

Read a reloading manual.
Your friend is a follower of arm-chair magazine authors; unless, possibly, he is in the upper echelon of national long-range rifle accuracy competition and, even then, he is following SUGGESTIONS that have no proof in terms of published testing.
Cleaning: all the case cleaning you need to do is to wipe off the case exterior with a rag. Period.
Everything else is done because the wiping aggravates arthritis or for some emotional need of the reloader.
The most complete and fasted case cleaning is ultrasonic in hot water--totally clean case, inside and out, in 6-12 minutes. Dawn detergent will help keep the dirt in suspension.
Primer pockets seem to self-clean. I have cases I have been shooting for almost 50 years, and the soot build-up is the same as cases I have only fired 2-3 times. Primer pocket uniforming, cleaning, and flash hole deburring are completely useless activities. Some how, I have been successfully progressive loading for 40+ years without any issue with primer pockets (other than swaging military primer pockets open).
Testing I have done show that with a 0.75MOA rifle and lesser guns, there has been NO accuracy improvement from consistent case length or roll crimp. Do your own testing.
The ONE thing that will help you get better accuracy from a 1.5MOA or better rifle is to check each case for bullet run-out and use a tool to reduce the run-out.

 

[Mike38]

Yea, don't concern yourself with the tumbling part, especially for a beginner. I've been reloading pistol rounds for over 15 years now. Rifle for over 20 years. I have never tumbled my brass. Never. Do not own a tumbler, and probably never will. As for trimming straight walled cases, I do it once, then never again. Rifle brass I trim to length more often, but still not every time. I do clean the primer pockets every time, but not sure it's necessary.

 

[brasscollector]

I don't know about this:

that not cleaning primer pockets is DANGEROUS

I mean, I do clean my primer pockets, but not because I find it to be dangerous not to. I clean them because it keeps that crud out of my press. As far as reloading them without cleaning I would do it and wouldn't think twice about it being dangerous.
Now for the rest of the steps he outlines, some of them are not necessary for loading straight-wall pistol cases. And yeah, I've never trimmed 45 or 9mm cases myself, YMMV.

 

[Geezerbiker]

I use a Lee universal decapping die to deprime all my brass before tumbling. I do it because I like clean brass no because it's not dangerous to do so.

I also debur the flash hole on rifle brass. Do need to? Not really but it only has to be done once so it's part of my brass prep process. For handgun brass I don't trim or debur (other than for the .44 Mag.)

Where it's important to be picky is with sizing cases, seating primers, measuring powder and seating bullets. Be careful and consistent.

Don't exceed max loads in the manual and it is important to start with the minimum load and work up. Sometimes the max load for your ammo is lower than what the max is in the book. It's not a bad idea to only load 10 rounds then take them out and see how well they shoot before you load any hotter ones...

Yes being picky is important but not everything requires it. So far you've gotten some good advice here. It's time to dig in and get started.

Tony

 

[Nathan]

So with ammo prices being insane now, I'm thinking that I have to reload.

You will have very hard time finding primers for a year or so...powder, especially pistol powder is sparse....probably a year for that to come back.

Is my friend just being way too picky?

Yes, too picky. Many guns, even bolt rifles, don’t respond well to all this pickiness. The problem is most folks add a process without knowing by data/testing to see if it is a benefit. That just adds cost and wastes time.

I've read certain posts on here that some people NEVER have trimmed their 45ACP and similar pistol calibers.

If a person actually checks case length, they will never trim auto pistol brass.

I like the idea of reloading, but I want some sort of mechanism that doesn't take forever which is why I like the idea of a rotary press. He told me they are a waste of money,

The Hornady LNL or the Dillon 650 are both good ways to “get into” progressive reloading. If you want to make a lot of ammo fast, a progressive press is required. I like the Hornady LNL.

not cleaning primer pockets is DANGEROUS

Can your friend explain this? I could be wrong I have loaded 10000+ pistol rounds without incident, but he might be right!

What I do for safety in pistol rounds.....
I make sure the Amerc brass is thrown away.
I visually make sure primers are seated flush to minus to the case head.
I make sure sized case length is not longer than SAAMI dwg.
I “develop” powder charges to best accuracy load without pressure.
I set oal and crimp to what feeds best before load development.
I set crimp enough that rounds don’t move for 5 feed cycles.

PM me if you want some help getting started. I’m going to reload some 350 Legend right now.

 

[buck460XVR]

What should glean from my friends advice? What should I do to start because there is so much information about what you should do that it's overwhelming?

What you should have learned from your friend and the posts here is, that everyone has an opinion and their own priorities when it comes to reloading ammo. Reloadong can mean cheap, fairly accurate plinking ammo to one person and highly accurate long range competition ammo to another. Both will be the extremes and both will have different priorities and procedures. My advice would be to seek advice from experts, and not take what friends or random folks on the internet say as Gospel. If you really are interested in reloading, get a good manual and read it. Not the recipes, but the portion generally before the recipes that instruct on proper technique and procedures to make safe and reliable ammo. You can't go wrong with a Lyman's manual and will find it a valuable tool for a long time, even when you become experienced. Speer's is another good one. I'm sure there are online youtube videos and instruction available also. The more you learn and glean, the more you will know what is right for you.

 

[adn258]

Nathan and everyone here I really appreciate all your advice! The general consensus here seems to be a lot of steps my friend is taking are just a waste of time for pistol ammo and I think the consensus is right in this case. That said, we don't want to take unnecessary risks. I think case gauges might be a smart investment to check overall length? I would also get some calipers and check brass length now and then to make sure something isn't blatantly wrong.

I'm sort of thinking about Hornady's Lock N Load or the Lee Turret Press. To be honest though, I probably only shoot 100 rounds a month on average (and some months I don't shoot at all). I'm guessing maybe 1000 rounds a year if I'm going to be realistic.

Now if I get into reloading I might SHOOT MORE because of the cost savings. I'm guessing the Lee one is fine for reloading a hundred rounds an hour once you get good at it? How long will Lee's Turret press hold up based on people's experiences here? How about the lock N load? How many X number of rounds have people reloaded here before having problems with the press itself?

 

[mikejonestkd]

I can speak for the ease of use with the Lee Classic Turret press. I have had one for 10 years and its a dandy of a press. simple, reliable, and turns out excellent ammo.
You can, (and I recommend you SHOULD), run it as a single stage while getting your feet wet.
Then, you can insert the op rod and run it as a turret. It is fairly easy to load 100 rounds of pistol ammo an hour. When I am ' heads down' and in the zone I average 200 an hour.

Read everything you can on reloading pistol ammo, watch videos, and work with a veteran reloader for a while

 

[lordmorgul]

I also recommend the lee classic 4-hole turret press, have used one over 12 yrs now. I use it with the oprod for pistol loads and the feed thru “pro” variant powder auto load, but for rifle loads I take out the rod and use a hand operated powder thrower for better control. The flexibility of the Lee press is great for starting g out. Other progressives with single pull operation cannot be as quickly reconfigured but they do output more rounds per minute. It’s a trade off that a new user should consider, more hands on every single loaded round gives better confidence building of the process and your understanding of the operations. You watch each one happen with the Lee classic.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I'm sort of thinking about Hornady's Lock N Load or the Lee Turret Press. To be honest though, I probably only shoot 100 rounds a month on average (and some months I don't shoot at all). I'm guessing maybe 1000 rounds a year if I'm going to be realistic.

Both are good choices. Actually, there are three choices there, because Lee now offers an updated version of their original Turret Press, which is aluminum, and a "Classic" Turret Press that has a cast iron body. I've been using my original (aluminum) Turret Press for about fifteen years and I have loaded many thousands of rounds on it. It's still going strong.

I have two friends who use Hornady Lock-and-Load presses. They are both happy with them. The one who lives in town had problems with priming (surprise!). Hornady told him there's an updated priming mechanism that should fix that.

Now if I get into reloading I might SHOOT MORE because of the cost savings. I'm guessing the Lee one is fine for reloading a hundred rounds an hour once you get good at it? How long will Lee's Turret press hold up based on people's experiences here? How about the lock N load? How many X number of rounds have people reloaded here before having problems with the press itself?

Many people have said that reloading doesn't save you money, it just allows you to shoot more for the same money. Historically, that has probably been true. Today, the reality is that -- for those who already have stocks of components -- reloading may be the difference between shooting and not shooting. For someone just starting out, it's tough.

I have a good friend whose father died earlier this year and left him a bunch of reloading gear. But the father reloaded for precision rifle, and my friend is interested in trying IDPA -- handguns. So he had dies for a number of rifle calibers, but nothing for handguns. Thanks to a member here and a member of another forum, I was able to find two sets of 9mm dies. One went to my friend, and I bought the other for the son-in-law of another friend who shoots IDPA and to whom I gave an old press last year. New dies were not available ... anywhere.

My usual source for bullets has been Berry's. They're sold out, and can't keep up. My friend finally found 500 plated bullets from an Internet vendor. The owner of the range where I shoot lets me scrounge brass from time to time, so I was able to get a couple of hundred cases. Of the three or four powders my friend inherited, the only one suitable for 9mm is Unique. It's not the ideal, but it'll work.

Primers were likewise unavailable. His father had several thousand small rifle primers, but no small pistol. So, until he gets small pistol primers, he'll have to stick to a starting load and use the small rifle primers.

If you are just thinking about getting into reloading -- start looking for components yesterday, because it's going to be a challenge to get everything you need. It may also be a challenge to find a press; you're not the first buckaroo to realize that reloading can help when commercial ammo isn't available. It seems that everybody who owns a gun must have suddenly decided to get into reloading.

 

[44 AMP]

If a person actually checks case length, they will never trim auto pistol brass.

Never say never.

There are bottleneck auto pistol cases, and they do grow like bottleneck rifle ones. Not as much, as fast, usually, but they can, and sometimes do.

Straight wall cases rarely do, but rarely is not never.

My advice for a beginner is the same as the marital artist's "make haste slowly"

Meaning, forget speed, do things slowly. Do them RIGHT. Do them well. Speed will come along, in time...

Remember the more complex the machine, the more places there are for things to go wrong. And trying to go fast makes even simple things more complex.

Even the relatively simple turret press has room for mistakes. The first time you seat a bullet using the expander die, you'll understand what I mean.

The second time you do it, a month or 3 later, you'll be kicking yourself..

I began with single stage, then a turret press, and eventually a progressive press. I'm back to the single stage now, it fits my current needs. Sold the progressive, where in two years I loaded more bad rounds (actually 3) than I had in the previous decade using less complicated machines.

 

[lordmorgul]

Regarding case gauges, it’s a mixed bag for lots of reloaders, but personally I size to spec on everything and check every single one through case gauge now as a part of sequence going into my finished ammo boxes. For me it’s worth it, but the volume allows it.


Andrew - Lancaster, CA
NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders!

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Meaning, forget speed, do things slowly. Do them RIGHT. Do them well. Speed will come along, in time...

Remember the more complex the machine, the more places there are for things to go wrong. And trying to go fast makes even simple things more complex.

Even the relatively simple turret press has room for mistakes. The first time you seat a bullet using the expander die, you'll understand what I mean.

The second time you do it, a month or 3 later, you'll be kicking yourself.

True. Reloading isn't rocket surgery, but it does call for focus, and attention. If you're the type who "needs" to be doing three things at once, reloading may not be right for you. It only takes a moment's lapse in concentration to interrupt your flow, and that can result in a squib load -- which is potentially dangerous.

I once made a video to show how to run the Lee Turret Press. In the course of the video I made five rounds of .45 ACP. After I was done filming, I went to empty the powder reservoir back into the bottle. When I tried to turn off the powder drop -- it was already off. Hmmm ... Yep! I pulled all five bullets, and found that I had no charge. I was distracted by the filming and forgot to turn on the powder flow. Not good.

Another time I switched to a different weight bullet. The size must be slightly different, because I had several that didn't seat straight, and the plating got crinkled so they wouldn't fit a chamber checker -- or my barrel. So I pulled those bullets and reloaded the already primed cases. And, yep! I got out of the usual rhythm, and I didn't charge the cases again before seating the new bullets.

It can happen. It shouldn't, but it does. You have to be willing to pay attention to what's going on -- all the time -- when you are reloading.