Brand new S&Ws -- from long time owners

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Sevens

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Though I'll get opinions from anyone/everyone who wishes to post, I'm seeking opinions from folks are are long time S&W revolver fans that have experience with brand new Smith & Wesson revolvers.

Not Pro series, nothing from the custom shop, nothing you've worked over, but box stock base model guns here, fresh from the box.

Situation: I've got a buddy who has been bitten HARD by the guns & shooting bug and over the last 3+ years, he's been buying like they are going out of style. He solicits lots of opinions from me and I get to enjoy all the things he buys as well, but he's not really at all interested in used or older guns, he pretty much desires only brand new stuff. (there are some exceptions)

But he's now bought two different BRAND NEW Smith & Wesson revolvers and I can't stand the triggers in either one of them but he just rolls his eyes at me because he doesn't have the shooting experience and "feel" that I've got and he admits this freely.

He's starting to think that I'm just picking on his guns -- that is not it.

First one was a new 686+ from Bud's, 4-inch. On a double action pull, you get to the very end and you feel a hitch, not smooth at all, almost no way humanly possible to pull through slowly in double action without the trigger stopping before break and forcing you to apply more pressure to break it.

That was last August that he bought that one. The newest one came from a huge local (high volume) gun store. It's a full lug model 629 Classic, though not a "classic series" revolver as it has the internal lock... and this one does EXACTLY the same thing only this one is worse.

He cannot feel what I feel and he does not care... which is his prerogative, but it worries me about the internals of some of these revolvers rolling off the line right now.

Please understand that my post here is NOT about pre-lock vs. lock or old vs. new or that everything new is crap in the world. I recently owned a Model 60-15 circa 1998 with on board lock and the action was smooth and consistent and S&W predictable.

Also, specifically with the 629 Classic as I just spent a good bit of time handling this one: I'm absolutely impressed with all of the rest of this revolver EXCEPT this double action break. The single action is fine, the "feel" sound and movement of all of it whether cocked swiftly or cocked smoothly and slowly is pure Smith & Wesson goodness. The lockup, the lack of end-shake, the smoothness of the ejector, the beautifully beveled cylinder -- this revolver is not a cheap piece of mass-produced crap. It's still got the Smith & Wesson character and feel to it.

But the DA break is, well, awful and if I bought it in a gun store, I'd have them pull out another and I'd never have written out the 4473 for it. If I had ordered online, I'd be calling S&W over it.

I suppose it's possible that he's gotten two recent brand new lemons, but I'm starting to wonder if other folks have an opinion on the DA lockwork of the newest guns they are producing.
 
Just hand him a oldie but goodie S&W rev and let him shoot it. If he doesn't notice the difference in the triggers forget it!Like the old saying goes you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink!One pull of the trigger on an older S&W revolver and you will see if he is smart enough to feel the difference!I love the feel of my 28 so smooth and light!My 686 all most but no cigar!
 
Yeah, the triggers on my new Smiths weren't anything to write home about. Maybe categorically not as good as those on my older Smiths, but this heretic hasn't sung Hosannas about them, either. Holier than Thou, or just a trigger snob, it's a rare trigger, new or old, IMO, that can't be improved with a good action job.

Besides, the so-so trigger on my stock 617 hasn't stopped me from shooting it well and shooting it often. :cool:
 
Have you ever been the first one to pull the trigger on an old K-Frame? By that, I mean, straight out of the box, and never fired? They often had that "hitch" as well at first.

A few years back, I picked up a beautiful unfired Model 15 and one of the 620's. The 620 trigger wasn't anything great, but neither was the 15 at first. A couple of hundred rounds through both, and the triggers are now indistinguishable from each other. In fact, the 620 outshoots most of my K-Frames.
 
Okay, some interesting points being made. To try and answer some of the direct ones...

He's actually got a Model 19 Texas Ranger Commemorative, (1974, I think?) though it's a shooter. It does have a beautiful smooth and proper DA trigger. I wouldn't call it light, it certainly hasn't been tweaked or worked on, the side plate has never been off. If we put the two revolvers down on the table he might be able to tell the difference but he doesn't seem to care. So for the comment about "leading a horse to water...", you've pretty much nailed it! :p It doesn't seem to bother him.

Me, I think something is wrong with each of the two.

As for opening a box stock K-frame, I suppose I've only ever done that once-- my Model 17-6, circa 1989. I was the first to ever pull that one. It, too, is heavy, but it's smooth. Has it smoothed up over the years? Meh, hard for me to tell because I was a new shooter when I got it.

This happens to be one of those threads where I'll never be able to write and actually be able to fully share what I'm talking about. I'd love it if you guys could dry fire this 629 a few times.
 
It doesn't seem to bother him.
Click to expand...

Ignorance is bliss. And in a way, I envy him. One day, all your triggers are fine and you are happy. The next day, you read Cunningham's article, and are now one of The Enlightened. But with The Enlightenment comes Unhappiness as you realize your triggers now suck. :rolleyes:

From Cunningham's "What is a "good" trigger?":

"I recently met a fellow who was shooting a Colt Detective Special. We talked about his gun a while, and I asked him if he'd had any action work done to it. He said he hadn't; sure enough, on trying his gun, I felt the typical Colt factory trigger - heavy and ugly. Since I happened to be carrying my own Colt that day, I offered to let him try it's trigger.

Surprise! He handed back with thanks, but opined that it "didn't feel much better than mine."

ARE YOU FREAKIN' KIDDING ME??? Luckily, I resisted the Homer-Simpson-like urge to strangle him. When I got back to the shop, though, I wondered - why didn't he notice the phenomenal, night-and-day difference between the guns?"
 
I have many Smith & Wessons, old and new. The last three Smiths that I bought new where the 500, 460, and the 629. I belive that Smith no longer markets the "629 Classic" its just a "629" but anyway, all three have decent triggers,and no they are not like some of my old model 29`s but they are better than most of my non-Smith guns.

I have a Pistolsmith who lives realitivly close to me who is well known for his Smith action jobs.. once done, there is no other revolver out there that comes close to the worked over Smiths.... And yes I own a lot of guns that come from the big R. I am not biased against either one, just stating my 35years of collecting and using my guns.

I have a friend who shoots a Smith M&P 9 that is Mass compliant, 10+ pound trigger and he thinks its great. He has tried a few of mine and his reaction was interesting.. He could tell the difference between the pull weights but did not think my 4 lb trigger was any smoother, the point is that what works for one person may not be for anyone else..
 
This 629 is a full lug, 6-inch and marked "629 Classic" on the right side of the barrel. It's got a rubber factory grip with very understated finger grooves in it. Came from a high volume store that isn't likely keeping a lot of old stock. Not sure about the dash number.

Personally, I think there is something wrong with it, and his 686+.
 
It is certainly possible, I believe the Quailty Control at Smith is nowhere near what it once was. I read about a few of Smiths foible`s in other forums so it really would not surprise me.

I have a long gun that I have had to send back to the factory 3 times (Not S&W) 3 times I recieved it back and the problem remained. Their customer service has been great to work with, Their Tech people not so much..
 
I have shot many of the new S&W revolvers. Everyting from the Air Weight snubs, to the 500 X-Frame. When it came time to spend my hard earned cashola. I purchased this one.

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S&W Mod 67-1 PreLock model. Price was under $400 OTD. I have had offers to buy it from everyone that has shot it. One of those people was like your friend and would turn thier noses up at buying a used gun, as if it was junk.

The trigger, and action are beyond butter smooth. In fact the only thing I have that rivals it in DA is a Colt Python.
 
I squeezed the triggers of several brand new S&W revolvers in my local LGS. Dismal is the best adjective to describe them. Gritty, heavy DA, long and some with the hitch described by the OP. Triggers only a lawyer would love.

I picked up a Performance Center 15-8 last year. Made in 2002. I've squeezed better triggers on a Rossi. Evidently even the "performance" center no longer makes a nice trigger either.

I dumped that 15-8 for a very nice 3 inch 13-3. Couldn't be happier.

I picked up a well used 64-5 from J&G a few years back. Better trigger than any revolver I own, including my Colts and pre 2000 S&W Performance Center revolvers. Only paid less than $300 for it too.

I hope lots of folks continue to pay more for less and turn their noses up at used revolvers. :) Regards 18DAI
 
I've had people hand me their guns and say "try the trigger" as they're smiling from ear to ear. They think they have the best trigger in the world. I've had this happen at some big shoots and these guys paid some hefty bucks to enter so you'd think they'd know what they were talking about. After trying the trigger I'd smile and tell them "it's a work of art". I'm actually thinking to myself "what's he talking about..it sucks". I don't think the average shooter, and a lot of competitive shooters, would know a good trigger if it jumped up and bit them in the *$$. The top shooters who shoot bigger competitions usually know a good trigger, and when they say to try it, it's usually pretty good. Most all shooters know a really bad trigger when they try it. That being said, S&W still has good, or potentially good triggers. Up until a few years ago you could get most of them right out of the box with good triggers and they only got better with use. My last new Smith had a "poor to fair" trigger out of the box but it took very little work to get it to being excellent. I don't believe Smith puts the work into the guns they used to. Even Ruger has the potential to have a good trigger, but I don't believe they have the potential to have a great trigger. All in all, I wouldn't get too excited about a Smith trigger not being quite right as received new in the box. A little work and it will still have a great trigger.
Note: I've owned Performance Center guns and shot a lot I didn't own. I've never seen a bad trigger on a performance center gun.
 
I've owned the following S&W revolvers: 28-2, 66-2, 36 no-dash, 21-4, and 629-6 and I've shot a 29-2 and 15-3. I honestly cannot tell a significant difference between the new models and older ones. Of the S&W's that I've owned or shot, the two that had the best triggers were probably the 29-2 and 21-4, the 28-2, 66-2, 629-6, and 15-3 were all about equal in my estimation, and the "worst" (a relative term) is the 36 no-dash due to its weight (a necessary evil with J-Frames).

There is something to be said for the difference in a trigger between a NIB gun and a decades-old used one. When a revolver's action is cycled a significant amount, the springs take a bit of set and any small burrs or minor rough areas on the internal parts are worn smooth. The only way to truly compare a new and old S&W trigger is to shoot both a NIB model and an old but unfired one side-by-side.

Because older, unfired S&W revolvers aren't particularly common and those that have them aren't usually very eager to shoot them, a true comparison between a new and old S&W trigger would be very difficult.
 
Looking inside the workings of a newer S&W, I believe the bean counters won. I have 3 S&W revolers: M28 6" Mfg 1970, Model 14 Mfg 1974 and a Model 10 5" mfg 1975. I would not take a dozen new Smiths for any of them, if I had to keep them.

Doug Bowser
 
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