Brand Loyalty....

D

Dave McC

Staff In Memoriam
A few comments on other threads have given me pause, so here it is...

I guess it takes less than one minute of talking with me on the average for a shotgunner to find out I like 870s. As you probably know, I've used them since Mastodons went on the Endangered list, and recommend them for everything from arthritis to quitting smoking.

However,I have used other repeaters, including a Rem 11,a pair of High Standards(Misnomer for shotguns,tho they made superlative target pistols) ,a battered old 97, some excellent Ithaca 37s and so on.There was even a 12 I got to shoot some and it was terrific. Most of these I liked.

And,I had a B&O R/R turnin. A Mossie 500 with 18" bbl, brutalized exterior, that shot like a dream and worked like a Swiss Watch (a collective gasp arises from the audience). I even hunted with it,and for that hunting where a Cylinder bore works well,it worked very well.

But I sold it after a few months, albeit at a substantial profit. Why?

Because even after a few months of handling and shooting,I still had to look for the slide release and safety. Training could overcome that, but this was not the shotgun kept loaded in case the Revolution started without me. So, I sold it to a co worker who didn't mind the above and returned to my 870.Only had one back then.

And here comes the point to all this drivel I'm shoveling. I see folks here mention they're using this one and that one. All good shotguns, but with no common controls. One has the safety over here, the slide release there....

Imagine owning a 590,a 1400 AND an 870. Imagine having to operate any one of them in the dark, 10 seconds out of a deep sleep, in an emergency so dire the warm liquid running down your leg is of small consequence and in a time frame measured in increments of a second. We're talking life and death here.....

Do you really want to have to stop and think just where that slide release dooby is? Or whether the safety is on the tang, on the rear or front of the trigger guard? Or would you rather have well built repsonses built in, making the small stuff easier so you can plan, think, act and react? Oft the winner of a confrontation is not the best armed or strongest, it's the best prepared.

I use 870s for everything, and because I dislike swapping bbls and so on, I have several. But, if I had not been exposed to the 870 at a very young age, I could make do nicely with 500s, 1300s, 37s or whatever, as long as all of them had the same controls and "Chops". But I'm not giving up my 870s.

Perhaps some folks here are less cloddish and able to switch gracefully from one pump to another. If there's no big red S on their chests, there should be.

So, what do I recommend? Find a US made, name brand repeater that fits and that you like well enough to stake your life on it. Buy same, add either a long bbl for clays and hunting or a short bbl for crisis resolution and hunting. When money allows, buy another of same. Repeat as much as you want to. After all, 3 or 4 used pump guns will set you back less than a good quality AR, or a Bolt Action centerfire, or a match tuned GM. Using shotguns are quite cost effective, dollar for dollar.

HTH....
 
My current house and grocery gun is an old and very thoroughly broken in Higgens....J.C. that is. It gets regular drills and real workouts.

But just did an interior walkabout and came up with five manufacturers of repeaters. Plus an assortment of doubles, singles, autos, bolts etc.

Shotguns come and go with regularity around here but since the Higgens has little resale value....it seems to have made a permanent home with me. It is my in the dark and pumped up go to gun.

But, when somebody inquires about a house and fun gun, I suggest an 870.

Sam
 
Harry, currently driving 88 Camry wagon. Dodge Caravan died two months past. Like all Fords, Chevies, Dodges, etc, except lemons, which occur in all brands.Cars are merely transportation, while shotguns can mean the difference between life and death.

Sam,few of us can match your battery,or your experience. That Go To shotgun of yours has the same controls all the time, making my point.

6 shotguns here at Casa McC, all 5 repeaters are 870s.
 
Points well-made, Dave. Familiarity with the gun is paramount, but I feel like simplicity is also a huge plus. For that reason, my "always" house gun is a Smith and Wesson revolver. Now just which revolver is kept at the ready may change from time to time. It is usually a Model 66, but sometimes a Model 15, and I can normally put my hands on a little Centennial .38. Regardless, I know that it is truly a point-and-shoot firearm.

I have a safe full of shotguns and rifles, and I have a full complement of .45 caliber pistols, but I always have access to one of those revolvers, and it is kept "ready." Could I hit better with a shotgun if I had to? Yes, if the range were more than about 7 yards. There is hardly a place in my house, however, where I would be able to set up a 21 foot shot. At greater ranges than that, I can aim the blasted pistol and WILL hit with it.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I am a certified instructor for the NRA's "Personal Protection in the Home" course. This course is built around the pistol/revolver as the homeowner's gun of choice for defense. I happen to subscribe to that thinking. On the other hand, if I get a student whose primary defensive gun is a shotgun, and if he/she is competent with it, I can do the course with the shotgun, and virtually every principle taught applies.:)

Clemson
 
Like Clemson.....always at hand is a revolver. Whichever one will have the same manual of arms.

Since I have no two shotguns alike. The Higgens is the go to and the others are stowed. Again, no confusion in operation in time of need.

Dave has an advantage, if he grabs a shotgun, matters not which one since they are all from the same gene pool.

In times of stress, there usually isn't much time. Simplicity is our friend.

Sam
 
Another advantage to "brand loyalty" is that you only need one type of choke. I have a couple of 870s and an 1100. My set of Remchokes fits all three guns, so I'm ready for just about any application without a great deal of expense.
 
I bought an 870 Express in 1993 for duck hunting. I bought the Wally World Special 1100, my first autoloader, last year to have another (better?) duck gun.

You should have been there the first time I shot the 1100 and tried to pump it. That plastic checkering is hard on the hand.

Old habits do die hard, but it is possible to teach an old dog a new trick.

John
 
Saw a guy try that this weekend. Went from his 870 to his Benelli M1. Almost tipped himself over trying to pump that auto.
Funny to see but could be an issue under stress, which he was.
Mike
 
9mmMike, I did something like that -- after shooting AR15s and my Benelli M1S90 for so long, I was using a buddy's Winchester 1300 Defender and was wondering why it didn't fire after the first shot -- kept pulling the trigger and nothing happened. :)

One gun, one place, all the time? One reason I've standardized around a semi-auto rifle *and* shotgun.

Justin
 
Thanks, folks.

"Those who have not seen battle cannot imagine the difficulty. The simplest action requires Herculean effort, and all but the most basic become impossible"-Churchill.

Sam and Clemson, the non shotgunners here at Casa McC have access to a number of DA revolvers kept ready. Simple is good.

Haven';t we all seen varied gunners misoperate? What's maybe a bit funny on the range in a practice session is tragic as heck in a crisis.

HTH....
 
Here's my take on brand loyalty...while I really want an 870, I'm a Benelli guy at heart. I don't know why, I am just attracted to them.

That being said, even if Brand-X is not as effective as Brand-Y for WHATEVER reason (difficult manual of arms, second rate sights, poor ergonomics, loose fitted rattling parts, etc.) what matters is you LIKE the gun.

If you LIKE a gun, you will practice with it more, and even if it is more difficult to learn, or not as a high-quality firearm, you will become more proficient because of your DESIRE to become familiar with your favorite toy. It's better than having a top-of-the-line shotgun that you don't practice with, just because you don't like it for whatever reason.

Just my opinion :)
 
Good point, but...

Well made firearms that last forever, hit where they're supposed to and feel more like a body part than a tool are EASY to like(G)....
 
Interestingly enough, I went around that course a time or two myself.

Sold the Scattergun Tech 870 and got a Benelli M1S90. Shoots faster, must be a better firearm. Not for me. Figured out that my 870/1100 upbringing made the Benelli very clumsy in my hands. Went back to the 870.

When I had a wife, found that she could use almost any revolver well, autos were a problem. Stocked up on police trade-in K frames.


Still got the K frames, no wife... :D

Giz
 
Giz, Kirk Drier, the MD ranger who hunts deer quite well with a wooden bow, stone heads and dogwood shoot arrows, has a bumper sticker that reads....

"Got a longbow for my wife.
Good trade!" (G)...

Used a K frame for 20 years as a duty sidearm.
For most of those, I eschewed my cherished GMs, just to keep my "Chops" up. Now that I'm retired, my carry gun is a much modified 1943 made commercial Colt with Brit proofs. But there's K frames(and a First Model Trooper)as go tos for non shotgunners.

As for Benellis, I'd kinda like to find a fan of theirs in the area with access to Practical facilities. Love to try a shootoff against one,using my oldest 870 just to see what happens. Kinda like the challenge I put up to the PG only folks a while back.
 
Dave, the Benelli really smokes. Sort of like 12 v. 20, you will be faster with the M1S90 than the 870. I was shocked at the speed of the thing, but I had real problems getting used to the controls.

There is a school of thought that states it takes a 1,000 repetitions to get a motor skill down pat, maybe 2,500 to unlearn one. Like you, the Remington lay out is pretty firmly engraved in my mind.

If I was new to shotguns, I'd take a hard look at Benelli. Even then, one has to weigh cost vrs. utility and, IMHO, it dosen't even out.

Here in sunny SC, one can get 3 870 police trade ins for one Benelli or 2 3/4 Expresses for one M1S90.

Food for thought.
 
Thnaks, Giz. An 870, especially when bought used, is oneheckuva value. I find it interesting that my whole battery ran less than $1500, even when adding in fair market value on my first, which was a gift.

$1500= how many Benellis?
 
"Well made firearms that last forever, hit where they're supposed to and feel more like a body part than a tool are EASY to like(G)...."

Exactly how I feel about Remingtons. I grew up shooting an old Remington single-shot .22 with the trigger guard safety, moved up to a 760 with trigger guard safety and forward trigger guard pump release (just like the 870).

The Remington approach feels "right" to me. Tang safeties and especially the mauser bolt action safeties throw me off.

I have no idea why I don't own an 870.
 
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