BP shot shell crimp

C

Civil War Life

New member
I checked the search function and didn't find anything on this. My question is: I am reloading 16 ga black powder shot shells. I ordered some plastic hulls, wads etc. My problem is I can't get either a roll crimp or star crimp. The plastic keeps unfolding and the crimp won't stay put. Anyone encounter this and come up with a solution. I get a real nice star crimp, but it just keeps unfolding. Thanks.
 
I'm not a "reloader" so can't help you out on this - I suspect though, that this is a "reloading problem" not just associated with reloading them with BP - you might want to do a search for reloading forums - in particular, shotgun shell reloading - and do a post there? Perhaps you'd get an answer on your problem - unless someone comes along here that is familiar with the problem you're experiencing? I would think there would be some on this forum who reload shotshells for CAS that could help you out though. Good luck! :)
 
Sounds like you have either too much wad column, or a bit too much shot. Once you start your star crimp you must have enough room to push the crimp down about 1/16th of an inch. You need to research this, I don't remember exactly. You can get a good idea simply by looking at a factory load. Hope I didn't confuse the issue too much. Good luck.
 
Yeah what rdstrain said. A roll crimp will take less space. How old is the gun you're loading for? What kind of roll crimper are you using?
 
A roll crimp will take less space. How old is the gun you're loading for? What kind of roll crimper are you using?
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The gun was made circa 1900 and has been checked out for shooting but has a Damascus barrel so Black Powder only. I was able to buy some ready made BP shells and they fired fine. I'll post some pictures tomorrow of what is going on. There is room to push the crimp down but it won't go. Could be because I am using an old Lee hand loader and not a press. I'm thinking of getting a press. The Lee loader does make a nice roll crimp, but it doesn't stay in place. When you see the pictures, you'll see. I was able to get some paper hulls, and they roll crimp just fine. Thing is I have all these primed plastic hulls and would like to load them. I suspect a good press will do the job.

Thanks to all who have replied. Any additional suggestions are welcome.
 
Maybe the problem is trying to reload plastic shotshells that were previously fired with BP which considerably weakened the plastic.
The weakened plastic could be the reason why they won't hold a crimp, the BP may burn too hot to reload some types of plastic hulls.
 
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If you are using a plastic wad you can often cut the "legs" out of it leaving only the over powder (OP) portion and the shot cup. Load those separately (be sure the OP wad doesn't flip over as you insert it; it must be cup side down) and you'll have a lot more room for the crimp or more shot. Plastic wads have a cushioning effect with the collapsable center which when too compressed will cause the wad to shove out and open the crimp. Otherwise just use a shorter wad column.

I use both plastic and fiber filler wads for BP loads. I do however like to use a plastic OP wad no matter what amount of fiber & card wads I also use. The plastic OP wad gives a better gas seal in tapered cases like the Remingtons as well as the straight walled thin cases like the federals.
 
You can get a real roll crimper that will most likely take care of your problem. I got mine several years ago off ebay.

rollcrimper002.jpg
 
You are probably partially collapsing the collapsable legs of a plastic wad column when you crimp the shell and those partially collapsed legs act as springs relentlessly putting opening pressure on the crimp.

Use proper card and fiber wads and your problem should go away. I load a lot of BP shells to shoot in BP cartrige trap and skeet and the rules forbid plastic shot cups.
70 grains of fffg, one .135 nitro card, one 1/2 inch fiber wad, and 1&1/8 ounce shot works well in Winchester AA or Remington ST 12 gauge shotshells. I have won a few trap matches with that load.

As a matter of fact, I'm loadin' up the car right now to head for Electra, TX where the Red River Renegades Muzzle Loaders are hosting their 15th annual Shotgun Soiree. Maybe I'll win something.
 
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Your problem is incorrect wad column length. You have more stuff in there than the shell can hold.
You'll have to reduce 1. Powder charge. 2 Shot charge and/or 3. Wad length
Or a combination of all three.

In my 12 I use a claybuster yellow wad, 1 oz of shot and about 35 grs of FFg.

Makes for a nice load with light recoil and enough pop to take down any knockdown.
 
The big question is...

What hulls are you using?

I've run into hulls over the years that simply won't take a decent recrimp no matter what.
 
Maybe the problem is trying to reload plastic shotshells that were previously fired with BP which considerably weakened the plastic.
The weakened plastic could be the reason why they won't hold a crimp, the BP may burn too hot to reload some types of plastic hulls.
Click to expand...

The big question is...
What hulls are you using?
I've run into hulls over the years that simply won't take a decent recrimp no matter what.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that these are new FIOCCHI hulls that I bought already primed. Only plan to use them once.

If you are using a plastic wad you can often cut the "legs" out of it leaving only the over powder (OP) portion and the shot cup. Load those separately (be sure the OP wad doesn't flip over as you insert it; it must be cup side down) and you'll have a lot more room for the crimp or more shot. Plastic wads have a cushioning effect with the collapsable center which when too compressed will cause the wad to shove out and open the crimp. Otherwise just use a shorter wad column.
Click to expand...

You are probably partially collapsing the collapsable legs of a plastic wad column when you crimp the shell and those partially collapsed legs act as springs relentlessly putting opening pressure on the crimp.
Click to expand...

I am not using plastic wads with legs. I am using fiber and card wads wadsonly with a paper wad over the shot.

Use proper card and fiber wads and your problem should go away. I load a lot of BP shells to shoot in BP cartrige trap and skeet and the rules forbid plastic shot cups.
70 grains of fffg, one .135 nitro card, one 1/2 inch fiber wad, and 1&1/8 ounce shot works well in Winchester AA or Remington ST 12 gauge shotshells. I have won a few trap matches with that load.
Click to expand...

This is pretty close to what I am loading except mine are 16 gauge.

Your problem is incorrect wad column length. You have more stuff in there than the shell can hold.
You'll have to reduce 1. Powder charge. 2 Shot charge and/or 3. Wad length
Or a combination of all three.
Click to expand...

I don't think the column length is the problem. There is plenty of room for the crimp, either roll or star. The problem seems to be that it is just not holding. I will post a couple pictures tonight of the shells and you will see what is happening.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
If you are using 'NEW' primed hulls, have they been skived (had the mouth thinned)? Trying to do a star crimp on an unskived hull is next to impossible. I've had the same problem with 'NEW' STS hulls as well as some used 10 ga 3 1/2 inch hulls that I shortened to 2 3/4. A MEC Steelmaster press wouldn't even make a good crimp on an unskived hull.

Check out Ballistic Products:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/searchprods.asp
 
If you are using new hulls, your choices are:

Buy a roll crimper and roll crimp (cheapest way out).

Or get a press and get one of the brass skiviers and put on the press. A Mec 600 Jr will work just fine, but if you don't want to invest that much money, go with the roll crimps.
 
If you are using 'NEW' primed hulls, have they been skived (had the mouth thinned)? Trying to do a star crimp on an unskived hull is next to impossible. I've had the same problem with 'NEW' STS hulls as well as some used 10 ga 3 1/2 inch hulls that I shortened to 2 3/4. A MEC Steelmaster press wouldn't even make a good crimp on an unskived hull.
Click to expand...

I took a look at the tools and I think the roll crimp tool may solve my problem.

I will order a skive and roll crimp tool tonight. When I try it I'll get back with a report.

Thanks again to all who have been so kind to offer valuable suggestions.
Terry
 
I highly recommend getting an original roll crimping tool if you can find one. I haven't tried the modern crimp tools but Ive heard the originals produce a better crimp and I know the one I own crimps shells perfectly.
 
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