BP Pistol Conversion

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bear108

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I am curious if anyone knows of a specific pistol, that does not need any or very little machine work, to except a conversion kit?? I have an 1860 Amry now, but would like to keep it all original. So if there is a good quality conversion, that works very will with a specific BP pistol, please fill me in. Thank you to all that might be able to help me out!
 
A Howell (R&D) conversion cylider should be a drop in replacement with no modifications.

A Kirst Konversion may require some modification for the loading gate.

Those are really the only two manufactures that I'm aware of that make conversion kits.
Others here may know of others.
 
With a gated Kirst Konverter you only have to grind out the recoil shield if you want to use the gate. You can still use the Kirst Konverter like the Howell (R&D) cylinder by taking it out of the frame to reload everytime. That is, you DON"T HAVE TO modify to use the Kirst cylinder. That info just in case in the future if you want the option of a gated 1860.

And...as Dino said, I also believe that Howell and Kirst are your only easy and cost effective solutions for what you seek.
 
http://www.howelloldwestconversions.com/gated.html

Apparently, Howell's now also has a gated conversion, but it differs from the Kirst in that---"Instead of milling away a portion of the frame, our conversion rings are designed to overcome the need for this operation, while maintaining the appearance of the original conversions."

Not exactly sure how that would work and I've never seen one in person [although I do have one of their drop in cylinders for one of my BP revolvers]. Seems like a good idea.

Anyone familiar with these?
 
My best guess is that the statement about "milling the frame" is a comparison of the Howell solution to traditional solutions used in the late 1800's rather than a comparison to the Kirst solution. In other words, I believe that to use the loading gate that with both the Kirst and Howell gated cylinders you still have to mill out the recoil shield. Off the top of my head I don't see any way around this if you want to breech load.

Keep in mind the Howell solution with the gated cylinder still requires the following:

"Our conversion ring is securely mounted to the frame by two machine screws which require drilling and tapping."
 
Hello, bear108. I have a circa 1971 Colt re-make 1851 navy .36, and an early 1980 Colt 1860 army .44. Both are fitted with kirst Konverter cyl. The .36 is .38 long colt, the .44 is .45 colt. I couldn't bring myself to grind on that beautiful case-coloring..and didn't want to alter genuine Colts. Both conv. cyl. drop right in. Do require taking brl. off to load/unload..but still faster..and cleaner with smokeless than percussion. Best of luck!
 
Thank you all for your help. One questions still gets me though. Since I don't want to chance the pistol I have now, I need to start looking for a used one, that I can add the conversion to. So, do they make these conversions for just about every pistol or should I look for a specific one?? For example, 1860, 1851, army, navy, etc.....
 
I think you misunderstand....

You don't have to modify your revolver to use a conversion cylinder. My suggestion would be to get a Howell conversion cylinder that does NOT have a loading gate OR get a Kirst cylinder with or without a loading gate. You don't have to mill anything to use it.

If you don't understand how a conversion cylinder works then this video may help. While it is for a ROA the idea is the same for an 1860.
 
One more "heads-up" so to speak...

I don't know about the Kirst cylinders, but the pix of the Howell's cylinders shown on the website do not show that these cylinders have safety stop notches between chambers. What this means is, when you go from an ordinary BP shooter to a conversion cylinder you technically go from a six shooter to a five shooter, but because there is no place to safely rest the hammer on the conversion unit, you are really going from a six shooter to a four shooter. I don't think it would be much fun breaking down the revolver to reload after every four rounds.
 
threedogdad said:
I don't think it would be much fun breaking down the revolver to reload after every four rounds.
Click to expand...

I definitely feel that way about the Colt designs with a conversion cylinder without a loading gate. Doesn't seem to be much fun to have to whack the wedge out to remove the conversion cylinder for reloading. The ROA and the 1858 Remington among others don't have the problem that the Colts do.

That's why with my Colt conversion I went with a loading gate (Kirst) and having the recoil shield ground out. I don't have to screw with the wedge when breech loading.

Walker45BPM-2.jpg


But on the ROA I went with a Howell (R&D) cylinder. Very easy to remove the cylinder without tools.

ROARetainingPin021-1.jpg
 
ClemBert,

That is one big cartridge you have sticking out of that Walker's cylinder.

I remember another thread around here that dealt with your creation, [.460 S&W, wasn't it?] but I don't recall whatever became of it. Do you still shoot it?

What kind of ballistics do you get out of that thing? Do you load it with BP? Are you able to run it fairly stout without damage to the revolver?
 
On the 5 shot conversion cylinders, there is a "safety notch" in place of a sixth chamber, that is seen on the left in the link below.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.as...60408&CAT=3782
So, no, it does not become a 4 shot cylinder. I know the link is for a remington cylinder, but the 1860 cylinders that I have seen have them too.
Click to expand...


Thank you. I stand corrected. I just looked at this on Howell's website and not only do the "Colt" cylinders now have safety stops, they have one for each chamber so you don't have to keep spinning the cylinder around to the same spot in order to carry it safely. Seems kind of like the miniature North American Arms .22 revolvers. Very nice idea. It's still kind of a pain to keep disassembling the Colts, but not so bad as I thought it was.


http://www.howelloldwestconversions...1&productid=806&cfid=1629064&cftoken=57304468
 
bear,

The link that threedogdad posted is most likely the conversion cylinder you'll want to get if you don't want to modify your 1860 nor have plans to do that in the future.

1860-Colt.jpg


threedogdad,

I've got the performance numbers posted within this video as well as in the comments section.
 
I can't thank you all enough for all ur replies and information. My plan was to buy a new BP pistol and then get the conversion. That being said, do y'all have a certain BP pistol that would work well with a conversion kit?? That is my big question. What pistol should I look at?
 
Bear,

I'm not nearly the expert ClemBert and others are around here. I love shooting BP revolvers and I love loading 45 Colt catridges with BP to shoot out of my Vaquero, but my experience is far more limited than others here so take this for what it's worth.

My recommendations to you for conversion would be either an 1858 Remington or an 1860 Colt.

There are so many good choices though it's really hard to go wrong, but those seem to be two very good candidates for conversion.

Good luck.
 
Thank you, three dog dad!! That was one of my biggest question. I want to start from scratch here and wanted some input on what were decent guns, style and maker, to start with.
 
Having owned and fired both Kirst and R&D (Howell) conversion cylinders without loading gates on both Remington and Colt style cap and ball revolvers, the 1858 Remington is hands down the quickest and easiest to use.
 
Hello, bear108. There is one thing to keep in mind..if your do any alteration of frame to allow ctg. loading, that gun no longer is considered a black powder arm, but a modern type firearm..and must be registered.
 
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