Boyds gun stock CRACKED after firing two shots

[dylanjbegin]

Hey guys, I have done some reading on this forum but created an account to ask for some advice here.

I ordered a stock from boyds on July 28 for a Winchester Model 88 late model in nutmeg. I recieved it within a week or two but was unable to fit the stock right away due to my work schedule as a wildfire fighter. Out of the box this stock was beautiful and I couldnt wait to get it on my rifle. However, getting the stock to fit proved somewhat difficult as the magazine would not properly fit without removing some wood. I assumed this was normal and got to work after reading that some minor alterations may be necessary to achieve proper fit. I then noticed that upon trying to close the action of the rifle (lever action), the area just behind the trigger would also need to be shaved down and in fact notched in order to properly close the action. This seemed like a substantial amount of wood removal but I again reread the statement saying some minor alterations may be necessary to achieve proper fit. Upon completing both of these tasks, I began applying coats of TRU oil and rubbing down with steel wool in between coats. I ended up applying 12 coats and the stock looked beautiful. I later put the rifle together and took it to the range for a few practice shots. After my second shot the stock cracked behind the barrel, making a mess of all my work and making me pretty upset. All bolts holding the rifle body to the stock were snugged up as to not over tighten, and the cracking occured after shots had been fired. I do not see any situation where this is not simply failure of the wood product they have sold me. I would ask for a replacement stock, but after putting over ten hours into fitting and oiling this stock and having it fail after two shots, I don't think i can justify doing so again. With work I simply don't have the time or energy. I personally feel I should be entitled to not only a refund of the stock price, but also my shipping costs as my total came out to $136.79 after shipping to Canada. I have pictures of all of the issues I had with the stock if you guys wouldnt mind taking a look see. Caution, images may be disturbing haha

You can see in the images where i have added a red line to show where i had to remove wood. The area behind the trigger is actually quite a significant amount of wood removed and i feel I should not have been responsible to do this simply to make the stock fit.

Im going to email boyds but cant find a customer service email address if anyone knows it tat would be great. I work during their buisness hours so am not really able to call them then.

Thanks in advance for any advice you have on dealing with them!

 

[Mosin-Marauder]

I think you definitely deserve a refund. Removing wood that far back should not cause the stock to crack like that. I bet there might have been some previous crackage (is that even a word?) Done at the factory that was just too small to see and it finally expanded after the recoil from the second shot. That's just what I think anyway, nim know to be wrong more often than not, haha. Anyway, welcome to the forums and I hope all goes well with the stock.

 

[Colorado Redneck]

If I bought a stock that did that I would be on the phone asking for money back or a new stock, free of charge....no shipping or nuthin.

My experience with after market stocks is, they all need some inletting and work to make things fit right. But it sounds like you had to do a bunch. Was the stock unfinished? Or did you apply tru-oil t make it prettier?

 

[HiBC]

Sorry you had things go wrong..has to be quite disappointing.

Looking at your chipout behind the tang,the last picture...Its a laminated stock,quite strong.A defect would only effect one layer of the wood.it would not cross several layers,as yours does.

It is actually rather classic for stocks to break just as yours did.Because of the way the stock rolls down through the wrist,the wood behind the upper tang is unsupported by wood behind it.It wants to break!Standard practice is to put a little clearance behind the upper tang. .I always make sure that piece of wood that broke out for you feels no recoil.Its unsupported.You scrape noticeable clearance there.

I have never fitted a Win 88 stock.There will be a strategy of surfaces designed to absorb recoil.These must at least be bedded carefully for full contact ,or glass bedded.
You must understand the work before you can do it.

Example,in a heavy recoiling bolt gun,a big magnum,

1,the flat floor under the receiver must be bedded accurately so tightening the screws does not flex the stock.

2.The recoil lug under the receiver must make full contact on its rear face with the wood.OK,but there is only about 3/4 in of wood behind the lug till we get to the magazine mortise...yes...that's why...

3The magazine box /guard is carefully fitted full contact to support that wood.So recoil is actually transferred to the face of the mag box.Then it travels back to the rear surface of the lower tang.This tang should be fitted full contact,as the wood behind it is shaped to be self supporting.But,the sides of the box are allowed some clearance,so to not wedge the stock to split at the recoil lug.Crossbolts help to support against a split....

There is much more,of course...but I'm telling you the product Boyds sent you was fine.I have seen that same wood on three different .416 Rem Mags built on P-14 Enfields.No failure,and they kick the snot out of you!

It broke because,try as you did,you did not know what you were doing.

 

[dakota.potts]

Boyd's has good customer service, so I would try to get a new one from them. However, they do come with a disclosure card stating that minor fitting might be necessary and should be done by a competent and qualified gunsmith and that any alterations done by anyone else may mean you will not be covered

 

[Jimro]

Not enough clearance behind the rear tang, and improper bedding.

What happened is that when you fired those two shots the steel parts of the rifle slammed backwards against the wooden parts of the rifle, twice.

I've made that mistake myself, on a real nice piece of Fajen walnut with an M98.

Jimro

 

[FrankenMauser]

Unfortunate. And, I'm sorry to hear that your day was ruined, rather than being a happy occasion.


But... Possibly a hard lesson learned.
As mentioned already... You have to double check inletting, bedding, and overall fitment of a new stock very carefully. Pressure points in weak spots, uneven contact, or bad inletting that will let the action move around, can be a big problem.

Lever actions and pump actions, in particular, are prone to all sorts of breakage and/or cracking in the wrist or at the tang screws. Wood-to-metal fit has to be almost perfect to prevent cracks, splits, and chips.

 

[skizzums]

sucks it happened, but surely will be replaced free f charge. I would email the pics so maybe they'll just send a new one and skip the sending back part

 

[tobnpr]

I don't know if Boyd's will replace the stock, it's not a defect...but they might anyway. The Stratabond laminate Boyd's uses is glued under very high pressures- I've used literally hundreds of their blanks and have rarely found only the smallest of voids in any of the many plies.

X2 what HiBC said in #2. It's always best practice to epoxy bed the recoil lug on any rifle. For accuracy, you need full, even contact- and just to keep from bashing up the stock, you need contact, period. It's very difficult to get close to this without very careful inletting and contact dye.

It's far easier to hog it out, and epoxy bed it. This assures full contact, and also that the barreled action can't slam rearward under recoil- cracking the tang as happened in your case. If the recoil lug is bedded, there's no reason to leave a large unsightly gap behind the tang.

 

[wogpotter]

I just finished fitting a Boyds forend to a rifle. Just as they say "some minor fitting is required".
IN my case it was 90% removal of wood where they'd left a "little extra" to accommodate an action they'd not seen personally. I thought better that than having to add!
Then I discovered the recoil shoulders were undersized & didn't snug the receiver ring into the stock.

I'd contact them via FaceBook or E-Mail, but in my experience the telephone & just keep calling back til you get through is the best bet. They do state that once you've worked on it its not their problem, but maybe they'll do something for you.

My overall impression of the whole thing is that the wood is decent, but customer service is poor to non existent. Contact them anyway, you need to at least try to give them a chance to make good.

 

[NHSHOOTER]

I have bought a couple of stocks from Boyds and they have both dropped right in, the second 1 I got had to fit perfect since they used my rifle to make the pattern with, I have a email address for you, not promising anything but she may be able to help, give it a try, I have found them to be very customer oriented.
Jen Barnes <jenb@boydsgunstocks.com>;
I dealt with her directly when they she called and asked to use my rifle.
Good luck.
I might add, when they called and said my stock was ready and they were shipping it and my rifle back I got the rifle as stated but no new stock, I got right on the phone and after some waiting time on the customer service line I finally called the order desk and got someone who knew something. He said that when he saw my new stock the end cap (bubinga) was not square and he told them to make me a new stock, I got the new one a week later and it fit perfect.
As someone above said, emails are one thing, phone calls seem to get you somewhere.

 

[Slamfire]

There will be a strategy of surfaces designed to absorb recoil.These must at least be bedded carefully for full contact ,or glass bedded.

You must understand the work before you can do it

I agree and I have no idea from the pictures how the action fits in the stock. What are the bearing surfaces? What surfaces should the OP have checked to make sure the action was bedded, and what surfaces should the OP have relieved?

In my experience, laminated stocks are hard to split. Something was wrong.

 

[NathanGardner]

​

Recently received a Boyd's stock myself for a Remington 783. Like you I was very excited when I received it in the mail because the craftsmanship is absolutely beautiful, so I headed directly to the range without checking it(rookie move ) They advertised a free floated barrel however it was far from it. The barrel touched one side of the stock and had about an 1/8" of clearance on the other side. I'm sure the barrel harmonics of a 7mm Remington Mag caliber, halfway floated barrel would have shattered the stock. I had to go back home (20 some miles) and free float it myself. Definitely not a difficult job, just annoying. If I received a stock with that much work to be done I would have sent it back immediately, however it seems that the weak area wasn't anything that you worked on so I believe they should issue a refund and or replacement.

​

Unfortunately you probably stumbled upon a bit of bad luck with the wood used to create the stock. Often times, in regard to wood products of all types there are flaws and cracks underneath the surface that are invisible to the naked eye, the recoil of a rifle will definitely make them visible if they are significant. When you get a new stock, which I'm sure they will send you, I would follow the advise of previous posts and bed it to keep everything solid.

 

[Colorado Redneck]

Bedding and fitting---

This is an interesting subject. Considering all of the factory wood that comes unbedded to customers, it sounds a bit over the top to suggest that the only way an aftermarket stock will be satisfactory is if it is perfectly fitted and bedded. True, for the best accuracy and consistency, bedding work is beneficial. But if a stock maker is shipping out products that require extensive and "professional" fitting and bedding, that information needs to be pointed out right up front.

I still maintain that Boyds should come through and provide a replacement.

 

[dylanjbegin]

Thanks!

Thanks for all of the speedy responses guys!

I'm sure the problem mostly or totally comes down to inexperience with doing this type of work but you live and you learn I guess. Appreciate the email address contact NHSHOOTER as I am still going to try to contact the company and see if they can do anything. If I ever end up doing this again I will definitely be looking into bedding and free floating in order to avoid this ugly mess again. Hopefully some other rookies can learn from my mistakes and do a bit of forum reading before tackling this type of project because literally no instructions are included.

Thanks for the welcome guys! Really solid group of people here to help solve problems!

 

[HiBC]

I do not speak for Boyds.Its not my call.For most businesses,they must consider how much they spend on advertising vs the cost of replacing a stock.IIRC,studies have shown a dissatisfied customer made happy will tell an average of seven people.A dissatisfied customer left unhappy will tell thirty people.

I have never had an 88 apart,I do not know how they bed.

I know from Hawken muzzle loaders to lever actions,break action shotguns to Rolling blocks,Mausers and Springfields ,other bolt guns,and the cigar box Rem 81 I was given they all have specific surfaces that must be properly bedded to receive recoil or the stock will fail.

I have my sympathy for the OP.I have learned some things the hard way myself.He paid the price for the lesson.The education will be lost if its all Boyds fault.

If he had to sand and finish the stock,it was not a "finished drop in"

I agree a finished drop in should either fit,or need very slight fitting,or be sent back.
A 90% or 95 % inletted stock is another matter.Those present some challenges.I have been occasionally frustrated by them,myself.

I can see from the pictures of his work the OP did not understand how to approach the work.No insult intended,we are not born with the skills.

My career was in the machine trades,and fitting is in my skill group.

I can see he found the stock would not fit.Cutting out wood for clearance seemed the answer.Its no big trick to hog out wood till you can put the screws in.

You must first understand what the critical surfaces are.

Then I use Prussian blue and mostly scrapers.Or a Bridgeport if needed.

Prussian blue is a transfer ink.Its job is to get on anything it touches and make a mess.

I paint a thin layer on the steel and assemble the steel to the wood.Where wood contacts,I first determine if it is a surface that rquires contact.Sometimes you remove no wood from those surfaces.But high spots that contact leave a blue spot on the wood.
I scrape off the high spots and try again.

Its tedious,but rewarding as it comes together.

When you are done,a very high percentage of the inside of the stock is blue.That means it fits line to line.

If you do not use a hi-spot transfer stain of some kind,you are hacking blind.

No offense or disrespect to the OP,but I can see it.

Its just a fact that there is skill and knowledge in gunsmithing.No one os born with it.

Better luck next time!!

Now,if you want to make lemonade out of a lemon

Begin by getting a patch job small Accra glas kit,plus an Acraglass gel kit.

Begin by doing a very careful job af gluing that chip back in with accraglas resin.No flock fill,and if you use any dye in the mix,touch the tip of a toothpick to the dye,no more.You want translucence,like tea.Somehow you want a little pressure on it,wheter from rubber bands,or masking tape is slightly elastic.Pre-fit it,so it snug;e in just like it came out,wey it with resin,and set it in place.A weight,tape,rubber,a c-clamp very gently,something,squeeze it in place.Have it figured out and in a padded vise before you mix resin.


Once you get that done ,clean it up on the inside where the steel fits.Scrape in .030 clearance

Now be sure you have enouh clearance everywhere the thing falls tpgether.

Get a tube of Prussian blue from Graingers so you learn how to use it

Be sure to clear off any stock finish on the inside.

Study the instructions very carefully about release agent,and using clay to fill any low spots in the steel.I like sculptors pattern wax,myself,or beeswax.

I do not know the 88,can't recommend a bedding strategy.You do not want to glue it into the stock.You may just want to bed all the critical recoil surfaces,and the ones that locate the steel in the stock.

You want the barrel centered in the foren.If its free floated,or clearamced,a winding of electricians tape will center it.

And,you want your screws centered in the holes.

When the screws are tightened,there is some surface of wood the steel clamps down on.Preseve that height,don't scrape it away...completely,however,a pad of glass near the screw can be good.

When you draw up the screws.be gentle.You want to fully draw the receiver into position,but you do not want to strain or flex anything.Go easy.

You will maintain better control of the process if you do small areas at a time,like the recoil surfaces plus the floor surfaces.I would not try a 100% bed at first.

You might start with the guard/mag area first,just one stage at a time.

Clean,trim,shape the glass as you go.

I said use the Acraglass Gel because it does not run.Its like warm peanut butter.

If you are patient,you can save that stock.

Then refinish it.Back your sandpaper with a rubber eraser.Don't round things

You will gain a great deal of experience,and it can come out very good.

You can play artist with stain pens or Fieblings shoe dye or?,Paint the matching color back over your crack repair,fifish over it,then forget it.That Feiblings alchohol based leather dye is great stuff.A light brown or golden tan.Wipe it on scrap first,see if you like it.The trick is sanding over it.You put it on,then do a light finish sanding.I use it to make curly maple on a muzzle loader just beautiful,but experiment on scrap first.

Don't give up.Just go slow and careful

 

[Mike Irwin]

I'm sorry, but I just can't conceive of the recoil of a Winchester 88, even one in .358, breaking a laminated stock like that simply because it's not bedded.

 

[tobnpr]

Great post by HiBC...

As he mentioned, Boyd's sells stocks that are both semi, and full (supposedly) inletted. But even on the "fully" inletted ones, they state that it's based on their "in house" action.

Older actions (like the Mosin-Nagant) were not manufactured to the same dimensional tolerances as today's modern CNC, and in the case of the MN over many decades and differing locations. No such thing as a "drop-in" unless everything is cut to the largest possible dimension to be encountered. This could result in a sloppy fit affecting accuracy, not to mention gaps/aesthetics.

I've often had customers call or email thinking there was a problem with the stock they received, but after walking them through the process a bit they were able to find the "high spots" and get the barreled action to drop in correctly.

I've been thinking about doing a short video on this- Midway has one on their site, but Larry is a bit quick and it's lacking details.

Fitting to tight tolerances becomes a moot point if the receiver is epoxy bedded- which again, I always recommend unless it's a collectible stock or replication that the owner doesn't wish to "bubba".

Good luck with Boyd's...

 

[wogpotter]

I agree totally, there is more to this yet to be discovered.

This is direct from Boyds website & I think its relevant:

Returns



Returns are not accepted without an authorization number. Returns will not be accepted if they are past 90 days of the invoice date. Please call to receive a RMA number. Return MUST be received within 30 days from the date of RMA issue. RMA form must be filled out in full. All unauthorized returns will be REFUSED. RMA # MUST be on the outside of the package.



Please inspect product within 10 days of receipt to insure that you have received the proper stock and that it is free from defects. Natural cosmetic imperfections such as minor knots, burls, heartwood, mineral lines or minor cosmetic fill work are not considered a defect and will be subject to the 12% restocking fee. Factory seconds are purchased as is and cannot be returned. If you receive the wrong stock please call customer service. If for any other reason a return is required, a 12% restocking fee will be imposed and shipping fees will not be reimbursed. Alterations to your stock and/or forend of any kind, unless authorized by our technical department, will void any and all warranty and the return of your part will not be allowed. Proof of purchase must accompany all returns.

PLEASE check fit and function on every aftermarket stock manufactured by Boyds?. Safety is our primary concern and although we strive to achieve it, DO NOT assume your new stock will be a perfect fit out of the box. It is always best to confirm hole spacing on your rifle and make sure that this matches our stock. This will help alleviate all mistakes when ordering. Please note that due to the variations among models and changes in the production processes and tolerances that gun manufacturers may or may not routinely adhere to, some minor fitting may be required even on our fully finished drop in parts to achieve that perfect fit.

The stocks are sold as "finished" or "unfinished", referring to the cosmetic surface of the wood, not the inletting or bedding, that you are advised to check & verify before proceeding.

Contact them & see what they say, for all you know they'll do the right thing if you just give them the opportunity.

 

[Jimro]

I'm sorry, but I just can't conceive of the recoil of a Winchester 88, even one in .358, breaking a laminated stock like that simply because it's not bedded.

The chipped area just behind the tang is indicative of poor bedding and not enough relief. The action drove backwards fast/hard enough to pop those right out of place. The crack going down the wrist area is split along a lamination, meaning it experienced a very strong lateral force.

When you split firewood, how do you do it? Sometimes by slamming an axe into the open grain, sometimes by pounding a wedge in with a sledge (although the smart folks use a hydraulic splitting ram ). Same principle applies here, the faster you can get that iron moving the more it can act like a splitting axe on the stock, a piece of iron is driven with the grain to creat a lateral force pushing 90 degrees to the movement of the iron.

If the iron is not properly bedded to the wood and has room to slide around, the energy of recoil can easily double as the mass of the rifle is effectively halved.

For example, a 358 Win pushing a 200gr bullet at 2,500 fps has 48.27 ft/lbs of energy when you calculate it for the 3 pounds of iron. A 348 Win pushing at 250 gr bullet at 2530 fps goes to 61.58 ft/lbs of energy. The 358 and 348 Win are "sedate" by most standards, but if the bedding isn't done right they can put some free recoil numbers up there with belted magnums.

I hope this helps you conceive how those stock cracks could have happened.

Jimro