Bounty Hunters

T

TailGator

New member
There have been numerous reports in the media about team of "bounty hunters" that mistakenly raided the home of a chief of police while pursuing a drug offender who had jumped bail. The reports seem to indicate that the agents of the bail bondsman broke the door down to gain access, and is now facing charges. From what little I know on the subject, it appears that such folk operate quite independently of conventional law enforcement agencies, with little oversight, and sometimes with little accountability.

I'm not sure how one would tell the difference between the agents of a bail bondsman and home invaders with no badges or identifying clothing. What would happen legally if one defended one's home against such an error?

It is sometimes advised that, if people identifying themselves as police officers arrive unexpectedly, one should confirm their identity with 911. Would local law enforcement be aware of the activities of bail bondsmen?

I can imagine such a mistake ending very badly for either or both sides. And if a police chief can be the victim of such an error, it would seem almost anyone could.
 
Wrong address raids are one very good reason to CLEARLY post your number address on your home, mailbox, front door in very very visible large numbers/letters.

Having often been very confused about which house is which when trying to find an address, it's puzzling why more people aren't more distinguishing about their street address.
 
Having often been very confused about which house is which when trying to find an address, it's puzzling why more people aren't more distinguishing about their street address.
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Perhaps they just want privacy, and dont want to be found. We've always preferred that.

The internet has made privacy a thing of the past. We used to always have an unlisted phone number, and a P.O. Box, with no house address on anything, physical or paper, but certain government records that required them. Even then, it was pretty easy to foil that somewhat, using the P.O. Box address.

These days, a quick internet search on you will usually show where you live, where you used to live, who lives with you, your phone number, and even more. You really need to work at anonymity these days.

Out here in the country, if you didnt have a P.O. Box, at least we used to have RR address's (which were pretty anonymous), but no more, since 911 address's have been issued. The post offices here, have limited hours, no lobby hours, and basically no hours on the week ends, so, unless youre retired, or close to home during the day, getting to your P.O. Box is about an impossibility.

Then there is Google maps..... :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps they just want privacy, and dont want to be found. We've always preferred that.
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How does posting your street number on your house offer you any less privacy? Your house is clearly visible, presumably.

And actually, not having your house labeled would give you less theoretical privacy with your mail or packages ending up at the neighbors, people knocking on your door by mistake, etc.

Seems like odd logic IMO. ...

And, as I stated, a clearly labeled house will hopefully avoid the 1 in a 100 million chance of a mis-police raid (not that I live in such a neighborhood, but it's always possible - so before someone predictably chimes in, please spare us all the "live in a better area" comments). Clearly having your address posted puts you legally in a much better position if such a thing were to arise.
 
Not having your house labeled isn't allowed in a lot of places. EMT and fire types need it. Still can result in wrong address raids. Excrement happens.
There's a post about the team of "bounty hunters" on The High Road. Apparently the police chief met 'em at the door with a baton and discouraged 'em.
"...broke the door down to gain access..." That's called "break and enter" up here. Also called a 'home invasion'.
"... legally if one defended..." Kind of suspect a lot depends on where you live. State laws regarding bounty hunters and bondsmen being different. A 'castle doctrine' law should be a CYA for the home owner.
 
If someone kicks my door in the minimum they are going to get met with is me and my .45. Though likely my wife would be right behind me with her 9mm. If it was the middle of the night the 12 gauge with strobe light would be the welcome wagon. I would think either of those scenarios would change a mind or two in a hurry about coming into my house.

As for house numbers...for your safety, in time of need for emergency services, having your address boldly posted makes for a much easier job of us finding you for a fire or ems call. Every second that your loved one lies on the floor with no pulse is a second closer to no return. If we have to hunt for your house the odds are not good.
 
How does posting your street number on your house offer you any less privacy? Your house is clearly visible, presumably.
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If someone is looking for you through your address, I would think it was pretty obvious.

Ive lived in houses that were both visible from the road, and those that werent. Up until a few years ago, none had a "mailing" address on them. A couple had the obligatory "fire" ID, but that was simply to let the fire/ambulance know where you were (no 911, you had to call county dispatch and give them the number). It wouldnt do anyone else any good, unless they had the map. Cops could use it though.

As far as mail, it always went to the post office box. Kind of hard to screw that up. UPS (I hate UPS too, by the way) has had more troubles with our current house that has an address, than all the others without one combined. Id much rather use USPS and FedEx. UPS only gets checked as a last resort.

The only people who knock here, that I dont know, are the occasional JW's, and anyone who's had a wreck down on the road, and cant get a cell signal, which is pretty much anyone who has a wreck. Very little (read that "no") cell service here.

Seems like odd logic IMO. ...
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I cant imagine why. :)

And, as I stated, a clearly labeled house will hopefully avoid the 1 in a 100 million chance of a mis-police raid (not that I live in such a neighborhood, but it's always possible - so before someone predictably chimes in, please spare us all the "live in a better area" comments). Clearly having your address posted puts you legally in a much better position if such a thing were to arise.
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All it takes is a dyslexic clerk, or one who is a poor typist, and your now visible, and "correct" address, just made it a lot easier to make your life miserable. ;)

Then again, I suppose it would make your case against the department, a bit stronger, if you make it through the raid.
 
Some bondsmen advise us when they are in the area, most do not. I've met a few who have sense, most I've met don't... I stay away from them as much as possible.

If your home was unlawfully entered, depending on your state law, you can use reasonable force to protect yourself and family from what you perceive as an immediate threat. Florida law provides for a PRESUMPTION OF FEAR OF GREAT BODILY HARM when your home is unlawfully entered.
 
My town home has a black post, with a black mail box on top of it, the house number is prominently displayed on the post, and alongside the front door.

It seems to amaze any visitors from the UK, that parcels are just left at the front door!
 
Perhaps they just want privacy, and dont want to be found.
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Personally I think the quote is foolish just for the fact of how does emergency services find you home when in need?
 
Personally I think the quote is foolish just for the fact of how does emergency services find you home when in need?
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Another excellent point indeed.

Lots of great reasons to post your address number clearly. I've never heard of a single valid reason to not... unless you're trying to not be found I suppose.

It helps people who are looking for you find you, and gets your mail/packages to the right address and keeps your neighbors mail out of your box.

And as I mentioned, the big one is the unlikely but ever present danger of a wrong-address raid by the LEO. Rare, but it does occur and if you're a gun owner prepared for home defense, it will likely end up in bloodshed and dead pets. Yes, they are trained to shoot all dogs in the house on site.
 
I think that the closer your house resembles a castle, the better the castle doctrine works. Doesn't have to be a big castle; most were smaller than a suburban McMansion (and most of the smaller ones are in ruins). You just need a strong house, if you think it's worth it.
 
Personally I think the quote is foolish just for the fact of how does emergency services find you home when in need?
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They never seemed to have to much trouble finding people before, at any of the places we ever lived.

The fact that having the address prominently displayed obviously doesnt help in cases like those being discussed here. Right, wrong, or indifferent.

I've never heard of a single valid reason to not... unless you're trying to not be found I suppose.
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Sounds like you have heard of one. ;)

Rare, but it does occur and if you're a gun owner prepared for home defense, it will likely end up in bloodshed and dead pets. Yes, they are trained to shoot all dogs in the house on site.
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Likely it will end up in bloodshed, and killing the dogs will just make it that much more violent.

But of course, what are you to do? People beating down your door, are just that, no matter who they may say they are, just people beating down your door, and regardless who it is, its not going to go well for someone, if not everyone.
 
Do as you want, but I'm not being looked for by bounty hunters so don't have a privacy concern by trying to dupe others by not posting my address.

On balance, I'd rather that emergency services, house guests, and the mail man can easily find me and hopefully it may avoid the rare instance of a wrong address no knock or bounty hunter raid.

Emergency services are perhaps the most valid reason. Seconds count. I recently saw fire trucks and EMTs driving up and down a road - they were apparently lost. I don't know if it mattered, but perhaps those wasted minutes count.

You really don't have any privacy, so not posting your number is a false illusion. Folks that want to find you, easily can with minimal effort and information.
 
Do as you want, but I'm not being looked for by bounty hunters so don't have a privacy concern by trying to dupe others by not posting my address.
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Oh, believe me, I will. :)

Not trying to dupe anyone. If I want them to find me, Ill simply tell them how to get here. The mail, FedEx, etc, all seem to have never had trouble finding us, nor has anyone we've invited.

You really don't have any privacy, so not posting your number is a false illusion. Folks that want to find you, easily can with minimal effort and information.
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Which is the main gripe. So why make it any easier?

It used to be, you had some anonymity, but not much anymore. Even trying to stay off the grid is about useless, unless you go homeless.

Hey, if you want your number on your house, have at it. Light it up in neon! Like I said, if they have a dyslexic clerk, or cop, and screw up the warrant or the address, it'll be that much easier for them figuring out "youre the one" :).
 
I was just reading the Code of Virginia and there is actually a section that describes a "fortified house," in connection with drugs. So you can talk about the castle doctrine all you want but if your in the drug business, that's illegal, too.

So are lots of other things, too.
 
Any law can be written so that it cannot be obeyed. Even in the code, half of the space in a section seems to be taken up by the exceptions. I don't think we really want all the laws strictly enforced anyway. The only problem with that, however, is that it tends to give the police a lot of discretionary powers. So sometimes justice is administered unfairly.

Another problem is that we live and operate under multiple layers of laws. I've just mentioned the state law. But there are also local laws and federal laws. Good luck being law abiding citizens.
 
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