Bought my wife a youth model 20 gauge 1187
- Thread starter 27Veer
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DiscoRacing
New member
sounds like a plan... Happy Shootin.
oneounceload
Moderator
Not to be an jerk, but.................how do you know? Are you a stock fitter? What is your determination based on? I've seen WAY too many think their spouse is fitted because she mounted a gun in a store or shot 2-3 clays and maybe hit them.......that means squat.......if you have done something different, please share it
Deerhunter
New member
How is the 1187? I am looking at one also. I know there is a difference between the youth 11-87 in 20 versus the 11-87 in 12 gauge but still. Just want to see if you have had any of the issues that people have been claiming that Remington has been having.
Thanks
Thanks
oneounceload:
That attitude is the reason why most people new to Trap or Skeet stop shooting pretty quickly, there are too many people with too many opinions that get offended by enthusiasts showing up with an autoloader or a pump, instead of a 2k or more over under.
When I was 11 years old I managed to save up enough over the course of a year to buy myself (in my fathers name) a youth model 870 20 guage. My dad cut half an inch off the stock to make it fit better, and NO he was not a stock fitter. I learned everything I know about shot gunning with that little 870, despite hearing all the grumpy old guys bitch about the little kid taking up too much time with his pumping and whatnot at the skeet range. Luckily, my dad was right there as well with his 1100 (That had also not been profesionally fitted) telling them to shove it where the sun don't shine.
Some of us like to shoot, and some of us like it even more when our spouses try to take in our hobby. I am an enlisted man, and don't have the time or the funding to custom fit every one of my weapons to either myself or my wife. If it comes close, we make it work, and we make it work with one barrel.
That attitude is the reason why most people new to Trap or Skeet stop shooting pretty quickly, there are too many people with too many opinions that get offended by enthusiasts showing up with an autoloader or a pump, instead of a 2k or more over under.
When I was 11 years old I managed to save up enough over the course of a year to buy myself (in my fathers name) a youth model 870 20 guage. My dad cut half an inch off the stock to make it fit better, and NO he was not a stock fitter. I learned everything I know about shot gunning with that little 870, despite hearing all the grumpy old guys bitch about the little kid taking up too much time with his pumping and whatnot at the skeet range. Luckily, my dad was right there as well with his 1100 (That had also not been profesionally fitted) telling them to shove it where the sun don't shine.
Some of us like to shoot, and some of us like it even more when our spouses try to take in our hobby. I am an enlisted man, and don't have the time or the funding to custom fit every one of my weapons to either myself or my wife. If it comes close, we make it work, and we make it work with one barrel.
Nobody is offended by what type of gun you shoot on a Trap, Skeet or Sporting Clays field. OneOunce will be one of the first to tell you that .../and I'll 2nd it.
Fit is a serious issue - you don't have to go to a pro to fit a gun / you don't have to spend a lot of money to do it --- and it doesn't matter if its a $200 or $5,000 gun.
On gun fit - the point is - does it hit where she looks ? You can't tell that by shooting targets. The only way to tell if it fits or not - is to take it to a pattern board and test the point of impact. Put a full choke in at 21 yards - and shoot 2 or 3 shells at a spot on the board - and see if the point of impact is high, low, left or right ....and if it is, figure out the most sensible way, and least expensive, way to move it so it does.
Maybe a "field comb" stock with a lot of drop fits you / maybe it doesn't - or maybe you've made it work for you. Good for you ....but I will guarantee you one thing - shotguns do not come in one size fits all ....and I don't care if they're made by Remington, Mossberg, Browning, etc ...the drop at comb, drop at heel, length of pull are all a little different - or a pump, semi-auto or Over Under --- a "field" comb is a "field comb" .....and 90% of the shooters I see with these guns / shoot guns that do not fit very well....( or they have an outfit ( like a heavy shirt, a vest --- so the angle on the comb does fit just right ) .... but on any angled comb ....if you shoot in a coat and vest one day / and a Tee shirt several months later (becauase that comb is angled / and your face moves up or back on the comb ../it causes the muzzle of the gun to move up or down .....and 1/2" of movement at the barrel is a lot at 35 yards.....it will fit one time/and it will not fit the other time.
I have a $2,000 O/U Browning Lightning ...with a "field comb" ....its a nice gun / but as that gun comes out of the factory --- it flat out / does not fit me ! Same thing on a Browning BPS pump .... I made them both work - wearing a heavy shirt, a shooting vest and a fatigue sweater ....and that worked fine in the fall and winter ....but it didn't work too well in 80 degree heat in the summer ( and I couldn't hit a target with it in the summer ) ....until an old timer helped me understand "Fit"....
Same issue on most any / or all ...angled comb guns. Your face moves up or back / depending on what you wear ....and it changes the Point of Impact -- so the gun will not hit where you look !
Fit is a serious issue - you don't have to go to a pro to fit a gun / you don't have to spend a lot of money to do it --- and it doesn't matter if its a $200 or $5,000 gun.
On gun fit - the point is - does it hit where she looks ? You can't tell that by shooting targets. The only way to tell if it fits or not - is to take it to a pattern board and test the point of impact. Put a full choke in at 21 yards - and shoot 2 or 3 shells at a spot on the board - and see if the point of impact is high, low, left or right ....and if it is, figure out the most sensible way, and least expensive, way to move it so it does.
Maybe a "field comb" stock with a lot of drop fits you / maybe it doesn't - or maybe you've made it work for you. Good for you ....but I will guarantee you one thing - shotguns do not come in one size fits all ....and I don't care if they're made by Remington, Mossberg, Browning, etc ...the drop at comb, drop at heel, length of pull are all a little different - or a pump, semi-auto or Over Under --- a "field" comb is a "field comb" .....and 90% of the shooters I see with these guns / shoot guns that do not fit very well....( or they have an outfit ( like a heavy shirt, a vest --- so the angle on the comb does fit just right ) .... but on any angled comb ....if you shoot in a coat and vest one day / and a Tee shirt several months later (becauase that comb is angled / and your face moves up or back on the comb ../it causes the muzzle of the gun to move up or down .....and 1/2" of movement at the barrel is a lot at 35 yards.....it will fit one time/and it will not fit the other time.
I have a $2,000 O/U Browning Lightning ...with a "field comb" ....its a nice gun / but as that gun comes out of the factory --- it flat out / does not fit me ! Same thing on a Browning BPS pump .... I made them both work - wearing a heavy shirt, a shooting vest and a fatigue sweater ....and that worked fine in the fall and winter ....but it didn't work too well in 80 degree heat in the summer ( and I couldn't hit a target with it in the summer ) ....until an old timer helped me understand "Fit"....
Same issue on most any / or all ...angled comb guns. Your face moves up or back / depending on what you wear ....and it changes the Point of Impact -- so the gun will not hit where you look !
oneounceload
Moderator
OK, so tell me how YOU fit a gun to someone
and THAT is total BS, maybe you need to learn about shooting - NO one is talking about having an entry level gun at 2 grand
but maybe you can tell me how many championships you have won......what is your ATA hall of fame number? or your NSSA or NSCA number of trophies?.........I'm thinking NOT
What a load of crap...............
Wow, I was about to say that maybe I just grew up shooting at the wrong range, and that it was a fluke that when I decided to switch to smallbore rifle the people were far more willing to help, and actually talk to you instead of at you.
Your attitude with quoting your credentials is pretty close to what I was talking about. If you had a drop pouch instead of a vest with your 100 club patches on it you were less than a shooter. If you had to to the stations to pick up your empties after, because they eject instead of popping into your hand, you were less than a shooter.
Yes, I am biased because of bad experiences growing up shooting skeet with guys who acted like pompous idiots because of their status.
I could tell you what I've been up to in the last ten years if you are dying to compare credentials, but mine have nothing to do with shotgun shooting, so you do have me there and yes, you can probably fit a shotgun to someone far better than I can, as I can lead a Reconnaissance team through an assault on a hostile city far better than you can, but I didn't really see the need to compare notes on what we've done in this world.
If we can get something that fits FAIRLY CLOSE so that our significant others can at least start to get a taste for the sport and see if it is really to their liking, it is a START.
Your attitude with quoting your credentials is pretty close to what I was talking about. If you had a drop pouch instead of a vest with your 100 club patches on it you were less than a shooter. If you had to to the stations to pick up your empties after, because they eject instead of popping into your hand, you were less than a shooter.
Yes, I am biased because of bad experiences growing up shooting skeet with guys who acted like pompous idiots because of their status.
I could tell you what I've been up to in the last ten years if you are dying to compare credentials, but mine have nothing to do with shotgun shooting, so you do have me there and yes, you can probably fit a shotgun to someone far better than I can, as I can lead a Reconnaissance team through an assault on a hostile city far better than you can, but I didn't really see the need to compare notes on what we've done in this world.
If we can get something that fits FAIRLY CLOSE so that our significant others can at least start to get a taste for the sport and see if it is really to their liking, it is a START.
oneounceload
Moderator
And you come to our club and you will have everyone trying to help, loan you guns, etc..........so that doesn't wash............but there are WAY too many here who think they have a clue, when they don't, but are too cheap or too macho, to get their spouse a lesson that might cost a dollar or two, and they think they actually know enough to teach their spouse.....so sue me if I think that is BS
Your spouse will learn quicker and better learning from someone who actually KNOWS what they are teaching while you take a walk in the parking lot..........if you can't handle that reality, I'm sorry for you....
And MY attitude has to do with folks here who think they because they shoot a certain brand of gun that they are the cat's meow, when they don't have a clue, and it has NOTHING to do with the amount you spent on your gun, so take your wealth envy jealousy somewhere else - it has everything to do with wanting to excel and do the best you can..............
Your spouse will learn quicker and better learning from someone who actually KNOWS what they are teaching while you take a walk in the parking lot..........if you can't handle that reality, I'm sorry for you....
And MY attitude has to do with folks here who think they because they shoot a certain brand of gun that they are the cat's meow, when they don't have a clue, and it has NOTHING to do with the amount you spent on your gun, so take your wealth envy jealousy somewhere else - it has everything to do with wanting to excel and do the best you can..............
Sounds like we are both fighting for sides that has committed wrongs to the other at some point, at least in our eyes.
I saw in the thread I started that you offered some real help, so thanks, and I'm sorry that my bias from a club full of ornery guys that weren't helpful, and I let myself believe that it affected the whole of sport shooting shotguns, rookie mistake, as there were some real idiot rifle shooters in the league I ended up in as well.
I saw in the thread I started that you offered some real help, so thanks, and I'm sorry that my bias from a club full of ornery guys that weren't helpful, and I let myself believe that it affected the whole of sport shooting shotguns, rookie mistake, as there were some real idiot rifle shooters in the league I ended up in as well.
Fit…
A mountain has developed from a mole hill over oneounceload's remark about stock fit. He was responding to the OP's claim that the OEM 11-87 stock fits his wife "perfectly" and used an absence of flinching to substantiate his claim. Perfectly is pretty much of an absolute like all and never and should be used accordingly. He wasn't being a jerk, but pointing out that many folks don't know how to evaluate stock fit and the OP might be one of them.
When the OP, Veer27, joined the forum a year ago, he was a self-confessed shotgun novice. We discussed a gun for his wife and the importance of a proper fit at that time.
While 1oz's comment may seem insensitive and overzealous to some, the importance of a proper stock fit can not be over stressed. I'm one of those who spent way too many years shooting below my potential and getting beat-up in the process because I was "making-do" and developing bad habits with stocks that didn't fit me properly. Why? Because, as a newbie, I thought the owner of the LGS knew what he was doing when he initially set up the stock of my first O/U (recoil pads were an extra back then and were individually fitted to your gun). The gun felt good to me and I didn't flinch. My next O/U was set up the same way. It was years later, when I started getting into competitive shooting, that erratic scores and occasional cheek mouses finally drove me to seek out a qualified stock man.
A proper fitting stock makes a world of difference. Hopefully, with remarks like that of 1-oz's, some new shooter(s) will seek out a stock pro from the get-go and won't repeat my experience "making do" with poor fitting stocks.
A mountain has developed from a mole hill over oneounceload's remark about stock fit. He was responding to the OP's claim that the OEM 11-87 stock fits his wife "perfectly" and used an absence of flinching to substantiate his claim. Perfectly is pretty much of an absolute like all and never and should be used accordingly. He wasn't being a jerk, but pointing out that many folks don't know how to evaluate stock fit and the OP might be one of them.
When the OP, Veer27, joined the forum a year ago, he was a self-confessed shotgun novice. We discussed a gun for his wife and the importance of a proper fit at that time.
While 1oz's comment may seem insensitive and overzealous to some, the importance of a proper stock fit can not be over stressed. I'm one of those who spent way too many years shooting below my potential and getting beat-up in the process because I was "making-do" and developing bad habits with stocks that didn't fit me properly. Why? Because, as a newbie, I thought the owner of the LGS knew what he was doing when he initially set up the stock of my first O/U (recoil pads were an extra back then and were individually fitted to your gun). The gun felt good to me and I didn't flinch. My next O/U was set up the same way. It was years later, when I started getting into competitive shooting, that erratic scores and occasional cheek mouses finally drove me to seek out a qualified stock man.
A proper fitting stock makes a world of difference. Hopefully, with remarks like that of 1-oz's, some new shooter(s) will seek out a stock pro from the get-go and won't repeat my experience "making do" with poor fitting stocks.
Deerhunter
New member
Zippy Thanks. I was just wondering if all the Remingtons are having issues these days.
Ok so like I said I am in the market for a semi auto shotgun. Mostly for ducks and geese, but I will be using it for doved and other small game. I need to leave my scope on my 870 for deer. Anyway, how hard is it to fit a shotgun? I am looking at 3 different guns....Remington 11-87, Browning Maxus and the Benelli Super Black Eagle II. So when I decide which feels the best (I am not going to be able to get my hands on all 3 to shoot before I buy) what can I do to make it fit?
I am not into the I have to have this gun because it is the most expensive or because well Glock is the best. I shoot what I thing feels the best to me when I hold/shoulder it and what will fit the use.
Thanks in advance for any advice
Ok so like I said I am in the market for a semi auto shotgun. Mostly for ducks and geese, but I will be using it for doved and other small game. I need to leave my scope on my 870 for deer. Anyway, how hard is it to fit a shotgun? I am looking at 3 different guns....Remington 11-87, Browning Maxus and the Benelli Super Black Eagle II. So when I decide which feels the best (I am not going to be able to get my hands on all 3 to shoot before I buy) what can I do to make it fit?
I am not into the I have to have this gun because it is the most expensive or because well Glock is the best. I shoot what I thing feels the best to me when I hold/shoulder it and what will fit the use.
Thanks in advance for any advice
First off, congrats to the OP for finding something that works for his wife.
Some years ago, I started telling couples to locate a good youth 20-gauge wih a short barrel for home defense. Loaded with #3 buckshot it's plenty powerful for the job. Most 20 bores seemed to be scaled right for women and teens. If you want to shoot skeet with it, buy a 20-gauge skeet gun as the stock that's good for short-range combat shooting usually won't work that well for waterfowling or skeet.
Don't even get me started on the attitude of some shotgunners with regards to 2A legal battles. Suffice it to say I've met too many arrogant ones who claimed they'd "always have our shotguns".
Some years ago, I started telling couples to locate a good youth 20-gauge wih a short barrel for home defense. Loaded with #3 buckshot it's plenty powerful for the job. Most 20 bores seemed to be scaled right for women and teens. If you want to shoot skeet with it, buy a 20-gauge skeet gun as the stock that's good for short-range combat shooting usually won't work that well for waterfowling or skeet.
Don't even get me started on the attitude of some shotgunners with regards to 2A legal battles. Suffice it to say I've met too many arrogant ones who claimed they'd "always have our shotguns".
glock199mm
New member
i have a 11-87 20 ga Premier 26 barrel
Fact of the matter is that most of us don't have the extra $$$ lying around to get a custom fitted stock or private lessons from a professional instructor. Not saying anything negative about it...if I had the $$$$ to spend, then no harm in it & it would prob make both my wife & I better shooters.
I bought my wife a Mossberg 20 ga. youth combo. Came with both a rifled & smooth bore barrel. We don't shoot clays & strictly use it for small game, turkey, & deer hunting. My wife is on the short side & a regular size stock is too long for her. The $200.00 NIB combo also came with a spacer in the stock that can be removed to make the stock even shorter.
I am not a professional instructer in shotgun marksmanship, however, I am a certified marksmanship instructor for the United States Marine Corps for the M16, M4, & M9 pistol. I have taught my wife how to shoot & can say w/o hesitation that the lady is a fine shot with a pistol, rifle (scoped or iron sights), & a shotgun.
Both arguments are valid, at first I did take the post from oneounce as being cocky...but read further & understand where he was coming from. I do, however, tend to agree with Rob228 in regards to if it is close, then that's close enough.
BTW, Rob228...what branch of service you in brother? I'm a Marine, 14 years of service.
I bought my wife a Mossberg 20 ga. youth combo. Came with both a rifled & smooth bore barrel. We don't shoot clays & strictly use it for small game, turkey, & deer hunting. My wife is on the short side & a regular size stock is too long for her. The $200.00 NIB combo also came with a spacer in the stock that can be removed to make the stock even shorter.
I am not a professional instructer in shotgun marksmanship, however, I am a certified marksmanship instructor for the United States Marine Corps for the M16, M4, & M9 pistol. I have taught my wife how to shoot & can say w/o hesitation that the lady is a fine shot with a pistol, rifle (scoped or iron sights), & a shotgun.
Both arguments are valid, at first I did take the post from oneounce as being cocky...but read further & understand where he was coming from. I do, however, tend to agree with Rob228 in regards to if it is close, then that's close enough.
BTW, Rob228...what branch of service you in brother? I'm a Marine, 14 years of service.