Bought Foxlab from JLUSA.COM = Junk !!!!

K

khuengo

New member
Guys,
I just wanted to inform you stay away from JLUSA.COM for your self-defense products. I just received a key chain foxlabs spray from JLUSA.COM a.k.a selfdefenseproducts.com and so dispointed. It is not in its sealed plastic case, there is no manufacturer name on the spray, no expriration date, nothing to show that product is actual Foxlabs product, in new working condition etc... How on earth should I rely on the product to protect myself if I do not know if it is in good working condition and it is supposed to work as described by manufacturer. It is on its way to the trash now.

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/keychain.htm
 
I sent email to seller asking those things and here is their reply:
BECAUSE OF THIS SPRAY BEING LAW ENFORCEMENT THEY DON'T COME IN CLAM SHELLS.IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO BE SOLD TO THE PUBLIC.WE ARE THE FIRST COMPANY TO SELL TI TO THE PUBLIC.THAT IS WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN CLAM SHELLED IN PLASTIC.LAW ENFORCEMENT DON'T CARE ABOUT THAT.

I dont buy it, I could search for dozens of online stores that sell the same thing.
 
looks like someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. you may want to put a post in the retail deals and feedback forum to bring more attention to your situation and make more forum members aware.
 
Disappointment out of Ignorance

Khuengo,
I am the president of J & L Self Defense Products AKA www.selfdefenseproducts.com.
I am going to address your comments one at a time so that you and other readers get the true picture here, and not just a one-sided rant that is completely unfounded with no truth to it all other than the fact that there is no clamshell.

1. You wrote: "I just received a key chain Fox Labs spray from JLUSA.COM a.k.a selfdefenseproducts.com and so disappointed."

Completely subjective. You have a right to be disappointed, but a reputable company like mine would have gladly refunded your money if you sent back the item within 30 days or exchanged it for something you did like. We want you to be happy with your purchase, so simply throwing it away (if this is what you did) would be totally asinine.

2. You wrote: "It is not in its sealed plastic case"

"IT" never had a plastic case. There is no clamshell packaging for Fox labs keychains or their larger units. Never has been, and I don't believe they ever will do it. The response you received from whomever in my company was completely true. If you check out www.foxlabs.com you will see units as we have them without a clamshell. We chose to
sell Fox to the genaral public in 1997 and have sold tens of thousands of units, and none ever had retail packaging. Agencies who were buying Fox would simply discard a wrapper and have no need for the retail package. I assume this is why Fox never offered clamshells to the dealers.

3. You wrote: "there is no manufacturer name on the spray"

This is untrue. The Fox label is on the can. You were looking at the hardshell unit. The can inside shows the Fox label. You would have seen this if you would have taken the time to open the unit up rather than complaining like we sold you something other than what was advertised.

4. You wrote: "no expiration date, nothing to show that product is actual Foxlabs product"

Again, you are completely wrong. Once you removed the unit from the shell you would see Fox Labs name on the can and a birth date stamped into the side of the plastic top. It is a Fox product and it is very new. Our stock never exceeds 45 days on the shelf.
Even if there had been "retail packaging" there would have been no way with out opening up the hardshell to see that what was in the can was a Fox product or the birth date.

5. You wrote: "in new working condition etc... How on earth should I rely on the product to protect myself if I do not know if it is in good working condition and it is supposed to work as described by manufacturer."

You lost me with this one. How could a clamshell insure "good working condition" ? It can't.
There is no difference on the fuctionability of a product if it is in a clamshell or out of one. When you buy a product from a vendor, it is the faith you have in the vendor to sell quality products that are not outdated and the reputation of the product itself that you purchased that you can only hope will perform in an expected manor. Packaging may make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it does not guarantee anything. If you are unsure about a product (especially pepper spray) then you should go outside and spray it to insure it works.

6. You wrote: "I dont buy it, I could search for dozens of online stores that sell the same thing."

There are dozens of stores who sell Fox Labs keychains, but none of them come with a clamshell. I know this because I supply many of the online dealers and those who I don't supply buy from only a few possible vendors and none are sold with packaging.

We are the largest internet distributor of Fox Labs Defense Sprays. We sell huge quantities of Fox products and other sprays as well. If you want something in a clamshell there are plenty of cheaper sprays out there. In fact we sell Police Magnum and it has retail packaging
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepper/police_magnum.php
This is a cheaper spray. The quality is decent, but Fox is better.
Most of the cheap sprays on the market have great packaging, are mass-produced, sold at flea markets and are usually not what they say they are or end up not being very effective. They are packaged to simpley entice impulse sales from consumers. They add the appearance of value when in reality it may be "crap in a can".

We hand-pick the sprays we sell because we do really care about peoples' safety. We do our best to sell quality products and give good accurate information. Fox Labs is a great product; in or out of packaging.

We also handle DPS which is an awesome law enforcement and corrections defense spray.
As of right now, it does not have retail packaging either.
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/pepper/DPS/index.htm

I personally take offense when people tell lies about my company even if it is out of frustration. In this case, there is no correlation between the packaging of our sprays and their functionability as a defense weapon.

If anyone has questions about our products, you can contact me directly at 1-888-313-6400 and we will try our best to help you.


--Irv Miller
President, J & L Products
 
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Irv Miller,
Thank you very much for your thoughtful response. Perhaps, my frustration should have addressed to this Foxlabs product itself instead of to your service/company.

I admit I was wrong in some parts of my statements above. Let's go one by one.

1. You wrote: "I just received a key chain Fox Labs spray from JLUSA.COM a.k.a selfdefenseproducts.com and so disappointed."

Completely subjective. You have a right to be disappointed, but a reputable company like mine would have gladly refunded your money if you sent back the item within 30 days or exchanged it for something you did like. We want you to be happy with your purchase, so simply throwing it away (if this is what you did) would be totally asinine.

Well, my disappointment still hold true but not toward your company after I read your reply but to the Foxlabs products themselves. I will explain in details below.

2. You wrote: "It is not in its sealed plastic case"

"IT" never had a plastic case. There is no clamshell packaging for Fox labs keychains or their larger units. Never has been, and I don't believe they ever will do it. The response you received from whomever in my company was completely true. If you check out www.foxlabs.com you will see units as we have them without a clamshell. We chose to sell Fox to the genaral public in 1997 and have sold tens of thousands of units, and none ever had retail packaging. Agencies who were buying Fox would simply discard a wrapper and have no need for the retail package. I assume this is why Fox never offered clamshells to the dealers.

This Foxlabs key chain is a self-defense weapon and it should have delivered to end-users in well-packed close-sealed clamshell/case to prevent accidental spray from unattended handle. I have bought a couples of keychain sprays from local store (Walgreen) and they are all in sealed clamshell with handle instructions inside.That is what I expected from Foxlabs products but apparently it does not meet my expectation. What if someone (who does not know what it is) other me than me opened it and sprayed to himself. This is not a lethal weapon but it could hurt bad.

3. You wrote: "there is no manufacturer name on the spray"

This is untrue. The Fox label is on the can. You were looking at the hardshell unit. The can inside shows the Fox label. You would have seen this if you would have taken the time to open the unit up rather than complaining like we sold you something other than what was advertised.

After following your instruction, yep, it has Foxlabs name on it as well as manufactured date. My bad not to inspect the item carefully before making such a statement and I apologize you for that.

4. You wrote: "no expiration date, nothing to show that product is actual Foxlabs product"

Again, you are completely wrong. Once you removed the unit from the shell you would see Fox Labs name on the can and a birth date stamped into the side of the plastic top. It is a Fox product and it is very new. Our stock never exceeds 45 days on the shelf.Even if there had been "retail packaging" there would have been no way with out opening up the hardshell to see that what was in the can was a Fox product or the birth date.

See #3 reply.

5. You wrote: "in new working condition etc... How on earth should I rely on the product to protect myself if I do not know if it is in good working condition and it is supposed to work as described by manufacturer."

You lost me with this one. How could a clamshell insure "good working condition" ? It can't.
There is no difference on the functionality of a product if it is in a clamshell or out of one. When you buy a product from a vendor, it is the faith you have in the vendor to sell quality products that are not outdated and the reputation of the product itself that you purchased that you can only hope will perform in an expected manor. Packaging may make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it does not guarantee anything. If you are unsure about a product (especially pepper spray) then you should go outside and spray it to insure it works.

I did not know your company before placing the order. I just searched for Foxlabs products and your website came off first place and I bought it from there. Again, I blame Foxlabs for their packaging. By delivering the product in sealed clamshell with handle instruction, the company assures the buyers of the credibility and functionality of the product, especially for one like this. This is a self-defense weapon, I do not want to use/test it unless I have to and when I use it, it must perform as advertised. A little assurance that the product is brand new and functional by ways of packing and some handle and cares instruction is what I need.

6. You wrote: "I don't buy it, I could search for dozens of online stores that sell the same thing."

There are dozens of stores who sell Fox Labs keychains, but none of them come with a clamshell. I know this because I supply many of the online dealers and those who I don't supply buy from only a few possible vendors and none are sold with packaging.

I take your explanation on this one.

I personally take offense when people tell lies about my company even if it is out of frustration. In this case, there is no correlation between the packaging of our sprays and their function ability as a defense weapon.

Well, I sincerely apologize you for part of my statements toward your company what are not entirely correct but I still hold my opinions on the Foxlabs products which your company is one of their distributors.

Regards
khuengo
 
Khuengo,
Apology accepted. Your points are noted. You have made logical points and a valid argument for packaging. I will pass them to Fox Labs. In the meantime, if you have questions about this or any of our products just let me know. I assure you the product you bought from us far exceeds what you found at Walgreens.

I am happy to have you as a customer.


Irv Miller
 
I have dealt with J&L for many years and purchased a lot of FOX 5.3 from them. I've been very happy and have tested different sizes for spray pattern (effectiveness once by accident :eek: ) As in so many things in life there are no guarentees but FOX 5.3 seems to be effective.

I do recoment that you check the spray pattern of any spray you buy. Personally, and this is just my humble opinoin, the keychain units are not worth it. Too little range, pattern and spray time. I do not buy any unit smaller thean the 2 oz. unit due to my testing.

Again this is just my opinoin and can always be wrong.

If you INSISIST on a keychain unit you might check out

http://www.vexor.com/faq.html

Be warned it is PRICEY.

Oh, and I do not recall if it came in a "clamshell" or not , sorry.

NukemJim
 
MRDEFENSE,
When we get O.C. at the prison I work in it comes in a large box that is compartmented in two layers. The cases come separately in another box and are ordered separately. I am assuming that your company simply breaks down these boxes for individual sale. Saving me the price of individual packaging is a good idea.
As for the junk sold at retail stores;
I've been exposed to O.C. many times. By direct spray in training and by immediately entering a cell that has been fogged or had a grenade deployed. So I guess I'm kind of used to it, no panic.
My wife bought one of those key chain ones from Wally World. When she brought it home I told her it was near useless. She didn't believe me so I let her spray me. My nose ran some and my eyes burned a bit but it in no way shut me down. If I'd been an attacker I'm sure it would've just pissed me off. They are selling false security to the unenlightened, IMPO.
 
Have you been sprayed with FOX 5.3? All OC is not created equal.
Click to expand...

OH YEAH!! That stuff makes you want to lay down and play nice. I'm glad we don't use anything that strong as a grenade, we have no gas masks. We don't use FOX as an issue item (Actually, in my institution only supervisors and sergeants carry OC) but It was tried on me in training. Plucked me up real darn good it did. Deconned and it still was real bad. After I thought it was over I took a shower, it reactivated. Nasty, Nasty, Nasty stuff!!!
 
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That's what I'd heard, from other people that thought some of the other brands were no big deal. I don't think I'd want to be sprayed with it.
 
garryc,
Fox and other law enforcement sprays come in bulk and are packaged according to the size canister. Typically 2, 3 and 4 oz units are in 64 count boxes with dividers separating all the cans. 1/2 oz. units come in a 500 pack. We get them and put them in holsters to order.

This is the only way Fox offers them to me. I on the other hand am partners in DPS which is another LE/CO spray that we are offering and it is bulk packed in exactly the same way. We are working on a clamshell now to avoid problems like we got into in the forum.


Irv
 
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Spray From Hell

Tim Burke,
You wrote:
Have you been sprayed with FOX 5.3? All OC is not created equal.
Click to expand...

Yes, and badly. We did a TV thing for NBC some years ago and they wanted to make sure I got hit good to see how long it took not only to work but to decontaminate. Well, camera rolling, the wife sprays me... one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three....:mad:

Needless to say it was bad. A couple pictures on our about us page.
http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/jandl.htm
I had more hair then:-)

So within the first 1/4 second, my eyes slammed shut and I was no more good. The other 2-3/4 seconds was extreme overkill for the cameras.

Hurt like hell as you can imagine. Fox works fast, but there is a lot of information behind why, and its not the SHU like you might think. I will get into that in my next post.


Irv
 
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