jack_the_sailor
New member
What is bore axis? How can I tell if the bore axis is high or low on a pistol?
Bore axis?
- Thread starter jack_the_sailor
- Start date
It is all in relative terms. Image the centerline of the bore extending back to over your wrist. Any gun with a low bore axis( relative to YOUR wrist) will be closer to your wrist. Grip almost any K frame or N frame S&W revolver and see were the bore axis is as compared to a .45, kahr, or P7 to name but a few. For most people a lower bore axis will allow for faster followup shot. There are always exceptions, however. 
jack_the_sailor
New member
Would a pistol with a low bore axis shoot below POA while a pistol with a higher bore axis shoot at POA?
No, it really doesn't have anything to do with point of aim. It's all about the torque (or lack thereof) that you get when you fire. Imagine holding a pistol so low on the grip that the bore is five inches above the top of your hand. When you fire, the pistol will practically rotate. Then imagine a nice high grip on a 1911, where the bore is practically inline with the top of your hand. It just pushes back. That's good stuff.
jack_the_sailor
New member
I shoot a Gock-17 below POA. My firearms instructor said that was due to low bore axis. I rented a HK USP c 9 & hit POA. I've also rented a Colt 91A1 & hit POA. I can't under stand why I shoot bad with my Glock & shoot better with pistols shot for the first time. I thought bore axis had some thing to do with it?
Yep, I shoot Glocks like crap too. It's going around...
I have no idea why your instructor would say that, unless you're talking about super-rapid-fire stuff.
Let's put it this way: nobody's gonna tell you that a high bore axis is a good thing, in and of itself. Some guns (Sigs) are good enough otherwise that it's a fair tradeoff.
I have no idea why your instructor would say that, unless you're talking about super-rapid-fire stuff.
Let's put it this way: nobody's gonna tell you that a high bore axis is a good thing, in and of itself. Some guns (Sigs) are good enough otherwise that it's a fair tradeoff.
jack_the_sailor
New member
I don't know if this is related to bore axis. But the HK grip/frame has more grip/frame above the trigger area & my finger runs thru the middle of the trigger guard & I can pull the trigger straight back. I have to reach up to put my finger on the frame. With my Glock my finger runs down the frame & I have to reach down to pull the trigger. I pull the trigger up & back which drops the front of the barrel. I own the Glock & shoot it regularly. But a lot of shots go below POA. I rented the HK once & all shots went to POA. Isn't the barrel of the HK higher way from the trigger area than the Glock?
9mmepiphany
New member
the height difference of the bore axis above your hand will affect where the bullet strikes only in relation to your hand...where you are pointing
the height of the bore axis above the trigger, or any other part of the gun has no effect of the strike of the bullet in relation to where the sights are aligned...where you are aiming
the height of the bore axis above the trigger, or any other part of the gun has no effect of the strike of the bullet in relation to where the sights are aligned...where you are aiming
jack_the_sailor
New member
Then why does my Glock-17 shoot below POA? When a rented HK-USP-c-9 shoots at POA.
9mmepiphany
New member
hard to say...because you're lining up the front dot in the rear notch rather than linning up the tops of the blades 
after having sandbagged the glock and finding it still shooting low..i would most likely take a file to the top of the front blade until it hit right...but i'm retro that way
after having sandbagged the glock and finding it still shooting low..i would most likely take a file to the top of the front blade until it hit right...but i'm retro that way
jack_the_sailor
New member
I have night sights. But I think I get what your saying. Test my Glock on a rest & determan if it's sighted poperly. The reason for the bore axis question is because what my range instructor said about Glocks having low bore axis & thats why my instructor shoots Glocks low also. I think I need to find a different carry pistol.
9mmepiphany
New member
just an observation...it seems that every night sighted pistol that i have shot, mostly sigs, seem to shoot lower with the dots aligned then when leveling the front and rear blades.
a gun shooting low for me and dead on for others drives me up the wall too. all fn p-35s, especially with adjustable sights, shoot low for me...i figure its just the grip angle.
a gun shooting low for me and dead on for others drives me up the wall too. all fn p-35s, especially with adjustable sights, shoot low for me...i figure its just the grip angle.
Blue Duck357
New member
I think most fixed sight guns tend to shoot a bit low. Manufacturers still realize it's easier to remove material than it is to add it.
Jack, You might want to try a glock with adjustable sights. If it still shoots low for you after adjusting them out, then it's you not the gun. I have never in my life heard of a problem of shooting low being unsolvable.
I know you don't want to hear it, but all my Glocks (gone through 4 of them) shot low until I did lots and lots of dry fire practice. A 3.5# trigger seemed to help them darn sights as well
Jack, You might want to try a glock with adjustable sights. If it still shoots low for you after adjusting them out, then it's you not the gun. I have never in my life heard of a problem of shooting low being unsolvable.
I know you don't want to hear it, but all my Glocks (gone through 4 of them) shot low until I did lots and lots of dry fire practice. A 3.5# trigger seemed to help them darn sights as well
jack_the_sailor
New member
Blue Duck thats why this is frustrating. I have a 3.5# trigger & dry fire daily. I'm starting to think this is grip related. When I grip the grip high. My trigger finger runs along the frame & I have to reach down to pull the trigger. When I pull the trigger, I'm pulling the trigger up & back which drop the barrel. The proper way to pull the trigger on pistol is straight back. If I grip the Glock lower on the grip my finger is half way between frame & the bottom of the trigger guard. Now I pull the trigger straight back. The hard part is getting the lower grip.
Blue Duck357
New member
I know what you mean about the frustrating part Jack. I think I'm actually in the GT archives for a "Low and Left" thread where I swore I was doing everthing right, and found out I wasn't Heck I even E-mailed Chuck Taylor and told him my ills with his beloved Glock as compared to my 1911. His reply was basically transition takes time.
Your right about your index finger being almost lined up with the bore if you extended it out. This low axis actually makes the Glock one of the few guns that points naturally for me. You can press the trigger straight back from this position, but it's different and takes time to drill into yourself.
Frustrating part for me was that I had shot for years (and pretty well) and now people were telling me I was doing stuff wrong that I knew was right. I eventually found that strictly in my opinion as much as I love the Glock it magnifies errors greatly.
Stuff you can get by with on a 1911 or revolver for years just don't cut with the Glock. I don't know if it's the light frame or the trigger or a combo, but it's just what I found. How hard you grip, trigger finger placement, the "pressing straight" back as opposed to pulling the trigger all seemed to have a much greater effect on the groups with the glock than other guns.
What helped me the most was concentrating on:
1, Pressing trigger straight back as mentioned.
2, Grip tension, 40% gun hand 60% support hand.
3, Follow through, keeping the sights on target after the shot and not dropping the barrel unconciously to see where I hit (OK thats a general tip )
4, Finger position on the trigger, Made a huge difference as to point of impact for me as to "how much finger" I was using.
5, Going from a 40 to 9mm
Seriously I love Glocks to death for a lot of reasons too long to get into here that may or may not be applicable to you at all. If you don't like it and shoot better with something else, hey more power to you. There are a sea of great sidearms out there. But I work with a lot of police who have no choice as to what they carry, and from that have come to believe you can overcome about anything to become a great shot with any quality gun that reasonably fits you (you can reach the trigger etc.).
Whether the Glocks advantages (and yes it's disadvantages) are worth your effort in this matter is entirely up to you. Just didn't want to see you give up on a gun and maybe lose some money on the deal because of the "bore axis" thing the instructor told you about which IMHO basically hooey.
Best of luck, and hey worst case scenario check with my bud AlaDan who will steer you well away from that Glock and to a Sig 220
Regards, Blueduck
Heck I even E-mailed Chuck Taylor and told him my ills with his beloved Glock as compared to my 1911. His reply was basically transition takes time.Your right about your index finger being almost lined up with the bore if you extended it out. This low axis actually makes the Glock one of the few guns that points naturally for me. You can press the trigger straight back from this position, but it's different and takes time to drill into yourself.
Frustrating part for me was that I had shot for years (and pretty well) and now people were telling me I was doing stuff wrong that I knew was right. I eventually found that strictly in my opinion as much as I love the Glock it magnifies errors greatly.
Stuff you can get by with on a 1911 or revolver for years just don't cut with the Glock. I don't know if it's the light frame or the trigger or a combo, but it's just what I found. How hard you grip, trigger finger placement, the "pressing straight" back as opposed to pulling the trigger all seemed to have a much greater effect on the groups with the glock than other guns.
What helped me the most was concentrating on:
1, Pressing trigger straight back as mentioned.
2, Grip tension, 40% gun hand 60% support hand.
3, Follow through, keeping the sights on target after the shot and not dropping the barrel unconciously to see where I hit (OK thats a general tip
)4, Finger position on the trigger, Made a huge difference as to point of impact for me as to "how much finger" I was using.
5, Going from a 40 to 9mm
Seriously I love Glocks to death for a lot of reasons too long to get into here that may or may not be applicable to you at all. If you don't like it and shoot better with something else, hey more power to you. There are a sea of great sidearms out there. But I work with a lot of police who have no choice as to what they carry, and from that have come to believe you can overcome about anything to become a great shot with any quality gun that reasonably fits you (you can reach the trigger etc.).
Whether the Glocks advantages (and yes it's disadvantages) are worth your effort in this matter is entirely up to you. Just didn't want to see you give up on a gun and maybe lose some money on the deal because of the "bore axis" thing the instructor told you about which IMHO basically hooey.
Best of luck, and hey worst case scenario check with my bud AlaDan who will steer you well away from that Glock and to a Sig 220
Regards, Blueduck
jack_the_sailor
New member
Blue Duck I'm trying every thing to keep the Glock. Back in the 80s started with revolvers then switched to 9mm DA/SA didn't like the action so I wanted the same trigger pull. Bought a Glock-17 on reputation only. I didn't even know about hand/gun fit. Carried it as an armed security guard. Then a couple years ago I got real serious about shooting. I've been dry firing daily & shooting weekly. I even just completed a combat training class. But I have this naging feeling. First never picked the Glock for the right reason to begin with. I never tested a lot 9mm pistols to see if the fit my hand & I shoot them well. Second that instructor said my Glock is too big for my hand (improper trigger reach). Now I read an artical that said grip the pistol high for recoil control. I think I gripped my Glock too high. Putting the web (between my thumb & trigger finger) under the back strap by were the back stap meets the slide. I think I really need to move down the back strap right above the checkering. When I do that my trigger finger goes in the middle between frame & the bottom of the tigger guard. I can pull the trigger straight back. I've read every post about trigger control & stance on different forums. Most of the suggestion revolve around the correction wheel but no 1 has explained what causes each problem & how to correct it. So that kinda doesn't help. There are things I like about my Glock. But while I'm trying to improve. I'm also looking at different 9mm pistols that might replace my Glock. The problem is only 1 or 2 are available to rent & shoot. Which ever way I go. Hopefully I'll make a decision based on how well I shoot this pistol not just on pistol reputation.