As recently posted here in this section, I just acquired an Eddystone "Model of 1917" that was sold to me as chambered in .303 Brit, but with a little digging and the help of this forum, was found to actually be 30-06. Found it holds 6 rounds plus one in the chamber. So I put 7 rounds in the rifle and cycled (without firing) through all 7 fine . Did that with several brands, some milsurp, PPU, some Hornady... but found that once in a while the bolt seems to malfunction by not closing all the way. It's as if the round was to long. But that same round WOULD sometimes close fine when fed. When it DOES close it closes fine, smooth as silk, but then all of a sudden it will simply refuse to close. This doesn't make any sense to me. It isn't the ammo, as it does this with all different brass. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. What's possibly wrong with this bolt?
Bolt occasionally refuses to close
- Thread starter M88
- Start date
Agree with the above but I use a drill attached to that chamber brush. I only do it once but it makes sure the chamber is clean (I do a lot of Mil Surp shooting and have too many guns of that type!)
I would go with Carbon Killer 2000 as the best carbon cleaner. Its amazing what it does to those old bores.
Picture of the front of the bolt? It is a controlled round feed and it may be hanging up a bit and not centered right.
I bought gauges from a guy name of Steven Mathews that also checks the Threat Erosion and MW. Not a aspect directly in this case but its indicate of how hard its been shot and more to the TE.
Head space on a 1917 is normally to whats known as Field Reject gauge - as your gun has the originally barrel its not likely a case is hitting the shoulder.
Those are the hardes ones to do over a forum. My wife asked me the other day about some sitcking drawer, yes dear, I will fix those. Of course I put it off until she started in.
Drats, I did say I would help - ok, let me do this - worked with it a bit, hmm, looks like the guide cuts, get the Fine tool, open it up, better, more sanding , yep ok.
How did you know what to do? Sorry dear, I do this stuff for a living, its a lot by feel and juggling, testing a bit and then continue or back to sleuthing and feeling and trying another tact.
I would go with Carbon Killer 2000 as the best carbon cleaner. Its amazing what it does to those old bores.
Picture of the front of the bolt? It is a controlled round feed and it may be hanging up a bit and not centered right.
I bought gauges from a guy name of Steven Mathews that also checks the Threat Erosion and MW. Not a aspect directly in this case but its indicate of how hard its been shot and more to the TE.
Head space on a 1917 is normally to whats known as Field Reject gauge - as your gun has the originally barrel its not likely a case is hitting the shoulder.
Those are the hardes ones to do over a forum. My wife asked me the other day about some sitcking drawer, yes dear, I will fix those. Of course I put it off until she started in.
Drats, I did say I would help - ok, let me do this - worked with it a bit, hmm, looks like the guide cuts, get the Fine tool, open it up, better, more sanding , yep ok.
How did you know what to do? Sorry dear, I do this stuff for a living, its a lot by feel and juggling, testing a bit and then continue or back to sleuthing and feeling and trying another tact.
LineStretcher
New member
It's not uncommon for your rifle to do this if the bolt face is still the original .303 Brit that is designed for a rimmed case. To be honest, I do not have a 303 rechambered for 30-06 but I have read of people having the same problem and the answer I'm giving is what the general conclusion seemed to be.
The bolt has the US Army Ordnance bomb on it, so its not a 303.
The US 30-06 bolt face was completely re-machined (changed) for the rebated rim 30-06. In fact, 303 being a rimmed and the much larger dimension it would never work at all.
While the base design of the P-14 was kept fully, the barrel and the bolt were all configured machine wise to handle the 30-06 Cartridge.
The US 30-06 bolt face was completely re-machined (changed) for the rebated rim 30-06. In fact, 303 being a rimmed and the much larger dimension it would never work at all.
While the base design of the P-14 was kept fully, the barrel and the bolt were all configured machine wise to handle the 30-06 Cartridge.
"The US 30-06 bolt face was completely re-machined (changed) for the rebated rim 30-06."
30/06 is NOT a "rebated rim".
For the OP: most likely what you're seeing is the extractor is not engaging the rim as the round feeds from the magazine and is being forced over the rim after pushing the cartridge into the chamber ahead of the bolt.
30/06 is NOT a "rebated rim".
For the OP: most likely what you're seeing is the extractor is not engaging the rim as the round feeds from the magazine and is being forced over the rim after pushing the cartridge into the chamber ahead of the bolt.
LineStretcher
New member
Exactly.
bolt not closing mystery solved
Thanks for all the input, but a few of you got it exactly right. When I put 6 rounds in the internal magazine but do NOT top it off with the seventh and try and close the bolt, every round that is fed from the magazine chambers and ejects fine. I was originally putting 6 into the mag and THEN putting one manually into the chamber, and when I did THAT, sometimes the bolt closed and sometimes it did not. Apparently with this rifle the extractor is not engaging the rim if you simply manually slide a round into the chamber. It has to be fed from the internal magazine for that to happen.
I'm curious if this is an issue with just my rifle, or do all Eddystone 1917's need to be fed from that internal magazine, and you can't just slide a single round into the chamber and close the bolt. Regardless, I feel better about this now. Paid $450 for this 100 yr old milsurp rifle. Looking at Gunbroker and other places that sell milsurp Eddystone 1917's, I got a pretty good deal given how clean this one is. Obviously the LGS that sold it to me as an "Enfield 1917 Eddystone in .303 British" didn't know what it was, and thus undervalued it. My gain.
Thanks for all the input, but a few of you got it exactly right. When I put 6 rounds in the internal magazine but do NOT top it off with the seventh and try and close the bolt, every round that is fed from the magazine chambers and ejects fine. I was originally putting 6 into the mag and THEN putting one manually into the chamber, and when I did THAT, sometimes the bolt closed and sometimes it did not. Apparently with this rifle the extractor is not engaging the rim if you simply manually slide a round into the chamber. It has to be fed from the internal magazine for that to happen.
I'm curious if this is an issue with just my rifle, or do all Eddystone 1917's need to be fed from that internal magazine, and you can't just slide a single round into the chamber and close the bolt. Regardless, I feel better about this now. Paid $450 for this 100 yr old milsurp rifle. Looking at Gunbroker and other places that sell milsurp Eddystone 1917's, I got a pretty good deal given how clean this one is. Obviously the LGS that sold it to me as an "Enfield 1917 Eddystone in .303 British" didn't know what it was, and thus undervalued it. My gain.
should I polish that end of the extractor?
So... should I polish the top of the extractor so it perhaps slides over the rim of my 30-06 better, which would solve the problem of it apparently NOT doing that?
...interesting TINY eagle on the bottom of the bolt... wonder what the 264, or is it 254? represented. This is one of the many reasons I like these old milsurps, lots of history, lots of little symbols stamped all over the rifle.
So... should I polish the top of the extractor so it perhaps slides over the rim of my 30-06 better, which would solve the problem of it apparently NOT doing that?
...interesting TINY eagle on the bottom of the bolt... wonder what the 264, or is it 254? represented. This is one of the many reasons I like these old milsurps, lots of history, lots of little symbols stamped all over the rifle.
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Yes. I single load and I have both push feed and the CRF mil surp.
I get mixed up at times. Mine will snap over (or the ones I have done it in, not likely all of them).
I do think its involved with the feed and not correct positioning in the bolt face.
I don't think its head space - I assume no head space gauges? If you ever do there is a procedure to remove the striker so as not to mach the gauges. The cock on close action is pretty powerful.
I get mixed up at times. Mine will snap over (or the ones I have done it in, not likely all of them).
I do think its involved with the feed and not correct positioning in the bolt face.
I don't think its head space - I assume no head space gauges? If you ever do there is a procedure to remove the striker so as not to mach the gauges. The cock on close action is pretty powerful.
The 254 is an inspector stamp number. I would have to look up if that is an R, W or E plant associated.
Cleaning up the whole bolt face and under the extractor and as well as the long lug would be a good idea. Polish not grind. Buff, dremel wire bristles.
Your follower could be an issue as well. I have seen 1903 followers in the magazine of a 1917. Very similar but not identical.
Yo8u could just try single loaded a number through it and if no issue do it that way.
I never put more than one in there as I am target shooting.
Frustrating with distance as I have the bore scope to look at stuff as well but not likely you do. I have enough rifles the Lyman was well worth it.
Cleaning up the whole bolt face and under the extractor and as well as the long lug would be a good idea. Polish not grind. Buff, dremel wire bristles.
Your follower could be an issue as well. I have seen 1903 followers in the magazine of a 1917. Very similar but not identical.
Yo8u could just try single loaded a number through it and if no issue do it that way.
I never put more than one in there as I am target shooting.
Frustrating with distance as I have the bore scope to look at stuff as well but not likely you do. I have enough rifles the Lyman was well worth it.
Actually, I DID get a "Lyman Products Borecam Digital Borescope with Monitor" from Amazon, was $203, arrived two days ago. I have enough rifles in my collection now, including many milsurps, that I decided I really wanted a good borescope that gave me close up detail on some of these older barrels. It is still in the package. To many irons in the fire right now, takes away from my "play" time. I retired 5 years ago, but am busier now than I've ever been when in the working world. All self imposed of course... I am NOT complaining.RC20 said:
While folks seem to do it with great success and get away with it- I am highly against chambering a rnd and then closing the bolt. If you look at it's natural chambering process, the round goes from the follower or from on top of the next round and as it angles and transition into the chamber, the rim guides itself up and into the extractor gap as the case goes fully into the chamber. Sure, they may have been designed to work the other way, but I see no reason to put that extra stress on a 100 year old part.
With its Mauser style claw extractor, the gun is designed to be fed from the magazine. Rounds slide up under the extractor during the feeding cycle before the bolt is fully closed. This is what is meant by "controlled round feeding".
SOME rifles have been modified so that they have the clearance for the extractor to snap over the rim of a manually chambered round. SOME DO NOT. if your's doesn't, you risk breaking the extractor single loading the chamber and closing the bolt on it. I do not know if 1917s were made to do this, or not. The 1903 Springfields were all made to do it, (required by the magazine cutoff). Some Mauser 98s were made so they could do it, some weren't. Some have been modified to be able to do it, post production.
Load 6 in that mag, NOT 7.
And, pardon the asking, but the rifle isn't bone dry is it? A little oil, or grease goes a long way to letting the bolt run smoothly.
Just load and feed from the magazine, and you'll probably have no issues.
Thanks 44... no the bolt as it came from the GS wasn't dry, looked like it had been oiled lightly, as was down the barrel, so need to clean it before shooting for the first time, which I always do anyway. That said... advice well taken re:feeding a single round directly into the chamber and closing the bolt. There is really no reason for ME to do that. It takes the same amount of time to push that round down into the magazine and close the bolt, as it does sliding it into the breech and closing that bolt and as you said, POTENTIALLY putting stress on that 100 yr old extractor claw. Why take that chance... just not gonna do it! I suppose if I was in a prone position shooting, and I was shooting single shots from a box where I have certain rounds I'm picking from, then having to push down into the mag (from prone) would be slightly more awkward than sliding a round into the chamber. Still... not going to do that anymore on this old rifle. Thanks for your advice 44.44AMP said: