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Bluing Workshop
- Thread starter pptrov
- Start date
Brownell's furnishes instructions with their bluing salts.
I can tell you my set up. I use a small building with lots of ventilation.
I have a stand with 4 tanks, on for Fresh water, one for soapy water, one for the salts and one for the water saluable oil.
I have two burners that run under the first three tanks. Soapy water, Salts, and oil. The fresh water tank isn't heated. I keep fresh water running through this tank
Throw the gun or part in the soapy hot water, then into the fresh cool water then into the tanks. After about twenty minutes I take the blued part out of the salts and into the fresh water again. Then into the oil/water.
Critical issue is temp. Keep it between at 295 degree. Too cold and the part will have a greenish tint. Two hot and it will have a redish tint.
Get a bluing thermometer from Brownell's, keep the needle in the black. If it the salts cool down turn up the fire a tad, if it gets too hot, cool it off with fresh water.
Bluing isn't really hard, what makes or breaks a bluing job is prep, (Polishing) before the bluing.
Brownell's sells everything thing you need, tanks burners, thermometer, salts.
burners, etc.
For soap you can use powdered dish washing soap. Not laundry soap, you don't want suds all over the place.
You also need some water salable oil, you can get that at any petroleum supply or machine shop.
I can tell you my set up. I use a small building with lots of ventilation.
I have a stand with 4 tanks, on for Fresh water, one for soapy water, one for the salts and one for the water saluable oil.
I have two burners that run under the first three tanks. Soapy water, Salts, and oil. The fresh water tank isn't heated. I keep fresh water running through this tank
Throw the gun or part in the soapy hot water, then into the fresh cool water then into the tanks. After about twenty minutes I take the blued part out of the salts and into the fresh water again. Then into the oil/water.
Critical issue is temp. Keep it between at 295 degree. Too cold and the part will have a greenish tint. Two hot and it will have a redish tint.
Get a bluing thermometer from Brownell's, keep the needle in the black. If it the salts cool down turn up the fire a tad, if it gets too hot, cool it off with fresh water.
Bluing isn't really hard, what makes or breaks a bluing job is prep, (Polishing) before the bluing.
Brownell's sells everything thing you need, tanks burners, thermometer, salts.
burners, etc.
For soap you can use powdered dish washing soap. Not laundry soap, you don't want suds all over the place.
You also need some water salable oil, you can get that at any petroleum supply or machine shop.
Dfariswheel
New member
I'd talk to the Brownell's Tech Staff.
They'll know of anything that's available.
Basically, a bluing operation needs to be either outside under a cover or in a separate room with nothing else in it except the bluing tanks.
The fumes from the chemicals will corrode anything else in the room including pipes and electrical fixtures.
If it's outside, the cover has to be large enough to ABSOLUTELY prevent ANY chance of rain blowing in. One drop of water in the tank and you get a violent steam explosion that blows hot caustic chemicals every where, including in you eyes.
One other option for info is to send a SASE to the NRA American Rifleman Tech Staff and ask them for any info.
NRA members can send ONE question per SASE and the Tech Staff will give the best answer they can come up with.
They'll know of anything that's available.
Basically, a bluing operation needs to be either outside under a cover or in a separate room with nothing else in it except the bluing tanks.
The fumes from the chemicals will corrode anything else in the room including pipes and electrical fixtures.
If it's outside, the cover has to be large enough to ABSOLUTELY prevent ANY chance of rain blowing in. One drop of water in the tank and you get a violent steam explosion that blows hot caustic chemicals every where, including in you eyes.
One other option for info is to send a SASE to the NRA American Rifleman Tech Staff and ask them for any info.
NRA members can send ONE question per SASE and the Tech Staff will give the best answer they can come up with.
Dfariswheel
New member
Among the rules is a requirement that if you do ANY work for anyone else, you are required to have a Federal Firearms License for gunsmithing.
You'll also need business licenses, a State tax number, meet local zoning laws, and know and obey all EPA requirements on disposal of chemicals.
You'll also need business licenses, a State tax number, meet local zoning laws, and know and obey all EPA requirements on disposal of chemicals.
As Dfariswheel indicates, you'd need a FFL for such a business.
Once you need a FFL, you must be in compliance with all local and state zoning regulations. Here, you can often go down the rabbit hole, because blueing and metal finishing often comes under an industrial zone classification, and you'd need to situate your shop in an area zoned as 'industrial' or even 'heavy industrial' (depending on your community). If you don't get zoning approval, you don't get your FFL, end of story.
As far as EPA regs... Here's some light reading for you:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...f&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title40/40tab_02.tpl
Personally, I don't need and don't want hot salt blueing in my shop. The only advantage of hot salt blueing is the speed with which steel can be blued. For all the hassle, regulatory compliance and personal injury potential, I'll stick with rust/fume/express blueing methods.
Once you need a FFL, you must be in compliance with all local and state zoning regulations. Here, you can often go down the rabbit hole, because blueing and metal finishing often comes under an industrial zone classification, and you'd need to situate your shop in an area zoned as 'industrial' or even 'heavy industrial' (depending on your community). If you don't get zoning approval, you don't get your FFL, end of story.
As far as EPA regs... Here's some light reading for you:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/tex...f&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title40/40tab_02.tpl
Personally, I don't need and don't want hot salt blueing in my shop. The only advantage of hot salt blueing is the speed with which steel can be blued. For all the hassle, regulatory compliance and personal injury potential, I'll stick with rust/fume/express blueing methods.
the big question is what are you going to do with your old blueing solution after your done with it? The finishing shops in my area were shut down by the EPA for chemical storage violations. If your going to talk to the EPA please do it before you have any work done or they may just fine you into the ground before you ever start work.
You don't even have to go as far as the EPA. You'll have to deal with local Fire Inspector yearly inspections, the County Hazardous Materials inspector, etc.
Bottom line- any chemical- double containment. A fume hood to draw off the fumes. A non-skid floor, as you're dropping water and oil all over the place. Water plumbed to top off the bluing and rinse tanks. Gas for the burners.
How do you get rid of the chemicals legally? You have them picked up by a hazardous waste service. I used to run an industrial battery shop, and was running, shall we say, a "surplus" of spent battery acid. I called around and back then (1995 time frame) a 55 gallon drum was about a grand to dispose of.
As far as the actual bluing, kraig's post sums it up well. You'll need iron mesh baskets for all the little parts, and hooks that hold the action by the bore so you can lift the action out again. Lower them in gradually, at a gentle angle, as the salts will froth and come shooting out of the last part of the barrel that submerges.
Some fans are a life saver- our operation was indoors, and a 90 degree day plus the tanks going meant it was piping hot.
I didn't find leaving parts out around the bluing setup as troublesome as some. Brownells "Hold" is a great chemical to have. You can polish something, spray Hold in it, and leave it 'in the white' next to the bluing setup for months, then wash it off and blue it, and there's zero corrosion.
Our bluing room was about 15 x 15, and if you were facing the four tanks you had a rack for barreled actions to your left, a rinse tank to your right,
a slop sink at your 5 o'clock, and another rack for barreled actions behind you.
Polishing-well, doing it right is way, way harder than it appears. You'd realistically need a 4x polishing setup- i.e.- 4 polishing wheels, with, lets say, 2 hard and two soft wheels. 240 hard, 240 soft, 400 hard, 400 soft, plus some extra wheels. I'd buy a couple of beat Mosins and practice, and be ruthless of you appraisal of your work. Trust me- everyone else will.
Wonder why people get so much for a blued finish?
Bottom line- any chemical- double containment. A fume hood to draw off the fumes. A non-skid floor, as you're dropping water and oil all over the place. Water plumbed to top off the bluing and rinse tanks. Gas for the burners.
How do you get rid of the chemicals legally? You have them picked up by a hazardous waste service. I used to run an industrial battery shop, and was running, shall we say, a "surplus" of spent battery acid. I called around and back then (1995 time frame) a 55 gallon drum was about a grand to dispose of.
As far as the actual bluing, kraig's post sums it up well. You'll need iron mesh baskets for all the little parts, and hooks that hold the action by the bore so you can lift the action out again. Lower them in gradually, at a gentle angle, as the salts will froth and come shooting out of the last part of the barrel that submerges.
Some fans are a life saver- our operation was indoors, and a 90 degree day plus the tanks going meant it was piping hot.
I didn't find leaving parts out around the bluing setup as troublesome as some. Brownells "Hold" is a great chemical to have. You can polish something, spray Hold in it, and leave it 'in the white' next to the bluing setup for months, then wash it off and blue it, and there's zero corrosion.
Our bluing room was about 15 x 15, and if you were facing the four tanks you had a rack for barreled actions to your left, a rinse tank to your right,
a slop sink at your 5 o'clock, and another rack for barreled actions behind you.
Polishing-well, doing it right is way, way harder than it appears. You'd realistically need a 4x polishing setup- i.e.- 4 polishing wheels, with, lets say, 2 hard and two soft wheels. 240 hard, 240 soft, 400 hard, 400 soft, plus some extra wheels. I'd buy a couple of beat Mosins and practice, and be ruthless of you appraisal of your work. Trust me- everyone else will.
Wonder why people get so much for a blued finish?
Hunter Customs
New member
I sold my tanks, stands, burners and salts several years back to a gentleman that wanted to start bluing guns.
Here's something else to keep on hand, a jug of white vinegar.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter
Here's something else to keep on hand, a jug of white vinegar.
Best Regards
Bob Hunter