Blackpowder revolvers?

C

Ceol Mhor

New member
Well, I'm thinking about picking up a pair of blackpowder percussion revolvers, both for plain ol' fun and for cowboy action shooting. It seems to me that they'd be cheaper both to buy and to feed than cartridge guns (and they look way cooler than Colt SAA's).

After spending a couple days browsing various dealers' sites (Navy Arms, Uberti, Dixie Gunworks, Cabela's, Cimarron) I've decided that the 1860 Army is the optimal model. It's got a steel frame (not brass), is in .44 caliber, and has a sturdier loading lever (with the gear-type pivot). Anyway, I want to toss the idea through TFL before I hit the next local gun show to buy a used pair.

Oh, and that reminds me - what should I look out for on a used percussion revolver? I want to make sure I get guns that work well...
 
Although the grip on the Colt 1860 Army is one of the best feeling I'd go with the 1858 Remington Army design because of the added strength of the top strap. The Colt sytle will never be as durable in the long run in my experience. They tend to loosen up after extended firing.

dfm
 
For the ultimate in shootability take a look at the Ruger Old Army.

For the ultimate "looker" check out www.coltblackpowder.com

Colt is dropping the BP line efective June. They are a lot higher in price than the copies, but they are genuine Colts, and are bound to do nothing but go up in price.

I have an old Colt Navy that I keep next to the 'puter desk just to fondle and watch the brass turn dull. It ceased being a working gun years ago, but it still feels good just to cock and fire it.
 
I have over 500 rounds through my recent purchase of a 1858 Remington Army. Made by Pietta, this is one serious shooter. I get average groups of 2 1/2 " offhand at 50'. I agree with dmf on the top strap.
What makes it more fun is the new imatation powders, no sufer smell and corrosion almost gone and a big reduction in fouling.
I am useing cleanshot now but will buy a some of Hogdons 777 at the next Gun Show. I am picking up a rifle and another pistol in the next month.
Now when I go shooting I have to spend twice as much time at the range. Time for my new smokeless powder guns and time for my Black powder guns.

Boy lifes can be tough
Tony

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I agree on the Uberti being first choice, but I would pick (have picked) the '51 Navy over the '60 Army. Just personal preference; if I were shooting at people and horses, I would go with the .44.

The Remington type top strap is vastly overrated for strength on a black powder revolver since the whole cylinder recoils and the strain comes back into the heavy part of the frame (unlike a modern revolver, where the strain is high on the frame).

Plus the Remington type is a bi**h to get fired caps out of, unlike the Colt where they can usually just be shaken out.

Two pluses for Remington: The barrel does not get out of alignment with wear and it has a good safety system. Most of the Colt type repros don't even have safety pins (although the "Colt Colts" do). I have no idea what they thought the slot in the hammer was for.

Jim
 
Most of the Colt type repros don't even have safety pins (although the "Colt Colts" do). I have no idea what they thought the slot in the hammer was for.
Click to expand...

They probably figured that the slot was for what it was designed for, to be used as a rear sight. ;)

The pins on the newer Colts are the lawyers' addition, they weren't there on the original (if I'm wrong, and I'm not, I'm sure someone will let me know :D ).
 
I shoot a pair of Navy Arms 1860 Armies and a pair of Navy Army 1851 Navies. I enjoy shooting these more than I do My modern cartridge guns. But just thinking about cleanup gives me dishpan hands. The 1858 Remington replicas are also great I'm just partial to the colts.
 
I haven't even held a blackpowder gun in years, but I used to shoot a repro of the 1858 Army Remington. I think it was a CVA, but I really can't remember. ( the then-wife loaned in to "a friend" in 1987, and said party took off to Alaska (?) with it )
 
Cool! Another potential Darksider.

If you haven't done it already, check out the SASS website,

http://www.sassnet.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi

Lots of good info. and tips there.

Consensus seems to be that the Colts are the best choice, albeit more expensive.

Ruger Old Army is a great choice, although not authentic, if that matters (the adjustable sight version puts you into Modern class, IIRC., but I think Ruger is doing an Old Army with fixed sights now).

The Italian guns can be a crap shoot. Pietta seems to have the lowest reputation, although a lot of guys have Pietta guns that work fine. I have a Pietta '51 Navy that is almost perfect. But I have seen a lot that are junk. Uberti gets most of the high marks, but they can also send out a lemon.

IIRC, others such as Navy Arms, Cimarron, etc., are actually Ubertis with different levels of fit and finish.

And lastly, if you are going to shoot one of these soot burners, use the real thing, Holy Black! Don't succomb to the temptation of the newfangaled Clear/Clean Shot Pyrodex stuff. It's just not right. ;)
 
Thanks for the info, guys.

RAE - If I could afford Colt's percussion revolvers, I'd just buy a pair of Schofields and be done with it. :)


Does anyone know of a good way to determine if a used Colt is in good shooting shape? Are there any types of wear marks I should watch out for?
 
RE: New Colt BP revolvers

Ceol, I too went through this same fascination last summer and at one point did a little research on the now-produced Colts. If someone else can chime in here on this and correct me, please do, but AFAIK the "new Colts" are not really "Colts" at all. The gun parts they used are still made in, you guessed it, Italy, and are assembled here by a company who purchased the right to use the Colt name in assembling them, sort of like Colt sub-contracted the job out. Supposedly these Colts displayed a good fit and very nice finish, but the Walker I looked at wouldn't even function, so owning the name didn't mean much to me.

I didn't find the fit/finish all that much better than some of the really pretty imported pistols, which again supposedly use the same parts. It's distressing that you can't buy an American-made Colt percussion pistol.

Anyway, at the time, the SASS Wire people told me to just get an Italian colt-clone and save the extra $150 I would've spent on a "Colt" Walker. It might be a lemon, but so might a Colt.

Hope this clears things up a little.

P.S. I'd get a Colt-style over a Remington also since the busted caps can be dealt with easier.
 
First I got a fixed sight, stainless Ruger Old Army. Really robust!
Can load up to 40 grains of FFFg. A real power-house and accurate!
But, then I got a Colt 1860 Army (signature series), WOW!!!
What an absolutely beautiful piece of history!!!
This Colt points like my finger and makes the Ruger seem down right clunky!
I haven't shot it yet, because I'm hoping to trade it for a Colt 1851/61 Navy.
But, for me, the Colts are the only way to go from now on.

I know that; 3rd generation Signature Series Colts are actually Uberti parts that have been fit & finished by Colt "Blackpowder" of Brooklyn, NY, and that; 2nd Generations Colts were also made up of Uberti parts that were fit & finished by Colt, Inc. of Bridgeport, CT, but what fit & finish! And in the end, all the gun's markings say COLT. Not made in Italy, which just wouldn't look right to me.
 
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Hi, Chaim,

Sorry, but on the safety pins you are wrong. The V notch in the top of the hammer is the sight. But the square notch at the bottom of the hammer face is designed to fit over the safety pins in the cylinder. No, they are not a new lawyer gimmick. They were present on all percussion Colts of that era.

But they were apparently made softer than the cylinder so they could be drilled out and replaced if/when necessary. The result is that on most old guns, they are so thoroughly flattened that they are not even visible. But they were there, and if you look at a gun without too much abuse, you can see them, or at least see the stubs.

I have one 1861 Navy and one 1849 Pocket that have intact pins, and an 1851 Navy that has visible ones. But on another 1851, an 1860 Army, an 1862 Police and a couple of other 1849's, they are flat.

Jim
 
Cabela's gun is a Pietta. I have a stainless Pietta, and it's fine.

As much as I love the C&B colts, and they are truly fine guns, I think the Remmie has a better design. One other thing to consider is that down the road you can upgrade your streel frame Remington or Ruger old army to a centerfire gun. There are two systems available.

R&D cylinders ( Available from Taylor's Inc, Brownells, MidwayUsa) Let you shoot 45 Colt ammo. With this you simply take out the C&B cylinder and replace it with a 2 piece cylinder. The front piece looks like a regular revolver cylinder and then it has a cap that fits on the back with 6 firing pins in it. They go in and out of the gun as a unit.

Kris Converters (River Junction Trade Co) . This, also 2 peices uses a recoil sheild that stays in the gun and a new cylinder. It gives a few more caliber options as well.
 
Y'all just gave me an excuse to repost a pic of last year's Christmas present. This is a London Navy that belonged to my great, great(great, great, great?) uncle who served in the British Army in the 19th century. It is identical to a regular 1851 Colt Navy, except the address on the barrel says London instead of New York. Colt had a factory in London for 10 or 15 yrs. in the late 19th century. I shoot it once a year or so "just because" but basically, it's retired.
 

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As a a cap and ball shooter of 33 years experience (pompusly he said) let me add my 2 cents.

For an accurate, rugged and reliable shooter with no pretentions to be a replica of anything get a Ruger Old Army.

As far as replicas are concerned, Uberti is the best brand and replicas of Colts in various configurations are the best shooters for allround use. The Remington repros are potentially stronger and more accurate(better sights), but are more prone to fouling problems in my experience. My favorite is the Uberti replica of the Colt 1861 Navy, accurate and shoots to point of aim. Also economical of lead and powder.

But none of the above are as good as a flintlock pistol.
 
I have 2.

1 Colt signature series 1851 Navy and One Cabela's 1860 Army .44 "outlaw" with a fluted cylinder and ivorex grips (it's also cut for a shoulder stock).

Both work flawlessly but the Colt is far prettier: sliver gripstrap, deeply blued and case hardened and the action is really tight. The army is a better balanced pistol, though mine does have a brass grip.

I use only real black powder in my pistols, though I do like the modern convenience of fiber wads over cylinder grease.

Both shoot round balls just fine but the navy model can't load the conical bullets I bought. The army model has enough room up front to take conicals. Both shoot very well. The navy has more velocity over the army and the sound it makes is a lot sharper.

In a used gun (and since Cabelas are so cheap why buy used??) look out for pitting, replaced nipples (no big deal, but some makers vary the flash hole size) and flattened nipple ends (that means some one was dry firing) Check for end shake, and the tightness of the barrel wedge.

Bring a shop towel or two to your range session, you'll need to wipe down your guns to keep them firing after 3 cylinders or so. Bring a towel for yourself too.:D
 
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