black powder question?
- Thread starter zip
- Start date
Zip,
I used one in .36 when I started. No .44 cal 1851 versions existed until modern repros came along. No reason not to use one however. If you're talking about either the brass or steel framed version, I had good luck with both holding together. But bad luck with reliable match use. A lot of cap fragment jamming. I went to 1960's era repros of 1860 Colts from Belgium [ called Centennials] till I wore them out pretty good. I need to rebuild them when I have time, they're better than real Colts to me.
Then I started using the Pietta '58 Remington copies from Cabelas. After some judicious gunsmithing and hardening of parts, I've got very dependable guns.
I first switched to .44s because matches used to have a lot of knockdowns. Funny that we used to have to police the overly heavy loads!
Joe West
I used one in .36 when I started. No .44 cal 1851 versions existed until modern repros came along. No reason not to use one however. If you're talking about either the brass or steel framed version, I had good luck with both holding together. But bad luck with reliable match use. A lot of cap fragment jamming. I went to 1960's era repros of 1860 Colts from Belgium [ called Centennials] till I wore them out pretty good. I need to rebuild them when I have time, they're better than real Colts to me.
Then I started using the Pietta '58 Remington copies from Cabelas. After some judicious gunsmithing and hardening of parts, I've got very dependable guns.
I first switched to .44s because matches used to have a lot of knockdowns. Funny that we used to have to police the overly heavy loads!
Joe West
Trigger Jerk
New member
There are a few companies that make derringers that are suitable for CAS. To answer your question about a black powder derringer... the answer is that any derringer made for smokeless powder will also handle black powder cartridges. Or course you will have to load your own black powder cartridges. I shoot smokeless in the main matches but for pocket pistols and derringers I shoot black powder.
Davis makes inexspensive derringers from 22 lr to 38 special. There work great for CAS.
As for the small revolver...you are talking about a pocket pistol? If so these are small caliber (32 & 38) break top original pistols of various makes. No one today makes a replica pocket pistol. They are usually reserved for side matches, but not always. You should be able to pick up a servicable one for less than $100. Gun shows are great places to find these little pistols.
Davis makes inexspensive derringers from 22 lr to 38 special. There work great for CAS.
As for the small revolver...you are talking about a pocket pistol? If so these are small caliber (32 & 38) break top original pistols of various makes. No one today makes a replica pocket pistol. They are usually reserved for side matches, but not always. You should be able to pick up a servicable one for less than $100. Gun shows are great places to find these little pistols.
Bill Mitchell
Staff Alumnus
Zip,
Armi San Marco make a small pocket Remington 5-shot revolver. This is a C&B,5-shot pistol. I got mine from Bass Pro Shop. I think CVA sells them. Uberti makes a baby Dragoon-a .31 caliber small frame revolver. CVA also makes a single shot BP derringer. Get a Dixie Gun Works catalog-they have several BP derringers and small frame revolvers for sale.
Bellicose Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Mitchell (edited January 12, 2000).]
Armi San Marco make a small pocket Remington 5-shot revolver. This is a C&B,5-shot pistol. I got mine from Bass Pro Shop. I think CVA sells them. Uberti makes a baby Dragoon-a .31 caliber small frame revolver. CVA also makes a single shot BP derringer. Get a Dixie Gun Works catalog-they have several BP derringers and small frame revolvers for sale.
Bellicose Bill
[This message has been edited by Bill Mitchell (edited January 12, 2000).]
new to black powder-need help with Hawken
I have a 45 caliber hawken I picked up after finaly watching the movie Jeramiah Johnson one to many times.It says Charles Daly but has and I satamped on the barrel with made in Italy Beside it. From what I have head this means it was made by Investarms. The problem is I have no Ideah how much powder is safe to load. I am trying to find a good white tail load and I will be using patched round balls can anyone point me in the right direction.
I have a 45 caliber hawken I picked up after finaly watching the movie Jeramiah Johnson one to many times.It says Charles Daly but has and I satamped on the barrel with made in Italy Beside it. From what I have head this means it was made by Investarms. The problem is I have no Ideah how much powder is safe to load. I am trying to find a good white tail load and I will be using patched round balls can anyone point me in the right direction.
Keep loads to 25 grs. or less and it should be ok. Just watch the recoil shield where the cylinder hits it and if it starts showing any signs of imprinting the cylinder ratchet reduce your loads.
DGW sells several different muzzleloading derringer kits from Classic Arms. I have the Twister which is an over/under. I got it when they were still selling them as complete guns and it's a POS.
75-90 grs. depending on what your rifle likes. It takes some work to work up a round ball/patch combo that works but worth the effort when you get it.
madcratebuilder
New member
There are a lot of different replicas of the Colt pocket pistols in .31 and .36. Baby Dragoon, Wells Fargo, 49 pocket, 62 police pocket, 62 pocket Navy, Trapper model.
According to the usage of the era: Navy referred to a belt pistol of 36 caliber. The ones colt made had the same grip as the current Colt Peacemakers/1873s.
The designation Army was for belt pistols of 44 cal. The Army has a larger grip so that the heavy recoil of the 44 caliber gun could be more easily handled.
I believe there is one factory gun that is in a museum somewhere that is a 44 cal with Navy frame and grips.
Also Colt did not make any brass framed guns.
The designation Army was for belt pistols of 44 cal. The Army has a larger grip so that the heavy recoil of the 44 caliber gun could be more easily handled.
I believe there is one factory gun that is in a museum somewhere that is a 44 cal with Navy frame and grips.
Also Colt did not make any brass framed guns.
grymster2007
New member
As madcratebuilder pointed out there are a number of small BP revolvers. I have the '63 Pocket Remington (.31) and it is a very small revolver. Not as small as the NAA, but about as small as my big mitts can handle.
madcratebuilder
New member
No, but thare are many CSA period Colt clones with brass frames, Griswold&Gunnison, Schneider&Glassick. I think the Leech&Rigdon had both brass and iron. The Whitney clone, Spiller&burr.
SigP6Carry
New member
why is it that 1/2 of all threads regarding the Pietta 1851 Navy in .44 degrades into an argument about how inaccurate (historically) they are.
I've got one myself, never fired it, though. BP shooting is a bit out of my price range right now, but it's a fine gun. I've talked to a few folks about their BP revolvers and it seems that the Pietta brass frame holds up well with lower volume loads. You're not going to get the power and force of a good steel frame, but it'll work for a starter.
If you want something with a bit more kick or power: I'd suggest going with an 1861 Army or Remington 1858 copy. Both of them are only a bit more expensive than the 1851 brass navy copy, but are built tougher and last longer when you fire it with full loads.
I've got one myself, never fired it, though. BP shooting is a bit out of my price range right now, but it's a fine gun. I've talked to a few folks about their BP revolvers and it seems that the Pietta brass frame holds up well with lower volume loads. You're not going to get the power and force of a good steel frame, but it'll work for a starter.
If you want something with a bit more kick or power: I'd suggest going with an 1861 Army or Remington 1858 copy. Both of them are only a bit more expensive than the 1851 brass navy copy, but are built tougher and last longer when you fire it with full loads.
SigP6Carry
New member
but nobody comes on here saying that it's an accurately made weapon. They simply call it by the name "Pietta 1851 Navy .44" and yes, the name itself is an oxymoron, but it's simply what the company calls it. I'm thinking that to avoid thread hijacking about anachronistic weapons we should start calling it "the not true to real life Pietta 1851 Navy that is in .44 rather than .36 like they were in real life."
