Big City Police Officer?

A

Ala Dan

Member in memoriam
You have just been hired as a full time LEO in a major city that has a history of a high
crime rate. This is your first experience in this capacity; therefore you need to choose
a duty weapon. Now, you are somewhat familiar
with handguns, as you grew up an avid hunter from the backwoods of Kentucky. However, times and circumstances have changed your life; as you are now in "The City". You will
attend an academy whereas the instuctors tout
the use of semi automatic handguns. In class,
you learn that your choice must be double action; as the department will not allow for
single action carry. During the third week,
several major gun manufacturer's visit to
display their firearms for sale. From this,
you have learned that Beretta, Smith & Wesson, Sig-Sauer, and Glocks will be the choice's to choose from. Departmental guidelines state. " The weapon of choice must
be .38 caliber or larger, and be equipped with no less than a 4" barrel. Your partner
to be, is a 14 year veteran who is armed with
a Smith & Wesson Model 459 nickel plated 9m/m. Your choice is payroll deductible in 3
easy installments. This choice must also be used for "off duty" and/or plainclothes assignement's. Decision time; of the manufacturer's mentioned please state your choice, make and model, and give a brief explanation as to how you arrived at your decision?

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, Life Member N.R.A.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ala Dan:
You have just been hired as a full time LEO in a major city that has a history of a high
From this,
you have learned that Beretta, Smith & Wesson, Sig-Sauer, and Glocks will be the choice's to choose from. Departmental guidelines state. " The weapon of choice must
be .38 caliber or larger, and be equipped with no less than a 4" barrel.
Decision time; of the manufacturer's mentioned please state your choice, make and model, and give a brief explanation as to how you arrived at your decision?
[/quote]


The Glock 17 (or 19) hands down...
Tough gun, corrosion resistant, easy to take down for cleaning.
Accurate, extremely dependable in adverse conditions.
And, a relatively low cost gun...
 
Ala Dan,

With all the wisdom you have provided to me via TFL, I am somewhat surprised you would ask this question. The first criterion has to be: whichever semiautomatic the rookie feels most comfortable with -- ergonomically and in terms of design features. After all, the pistol he feels best shooting is likely to be the one he shoots best. Therefore, there simply cannot be an "analytically correct" answer to this question.

That said, if all things were equal I would opt for the finest (night sights, stainless slide, Bar-Sto barrels for both calibers) Sig P-226 (in .357 Sig and .40 S&W) I could afford. Some will feel the P-226 is too bulky for concealed carry, but I believe a full-sized semiautomatic can be hidden with the right belt and holster.

I would select the P-226 because:
> Sig's quality, design, reliability, durability and accuracy are truly superb, as is their customer service
> The larger semiautomatic provides increased sight radius (thus, likely, accuracy) and enhanced muzzle velocity (therefore, likely, stopping-power)
> LEO-capacity magazines are readily available
> I have the choice of two great calibers, with many loads available for each caliber
> This flexibility in rounds allows me to tailor what I carry to my current assignment: caliber, bullet weight and design, velocity, manufacturer, and so forth
> Finally, .40 S&W and .357 Sig loads appear to be the optimal caliber compromise in terms of velocity, weight, penetration, and expansion -- smaller loads (.380, .38 Special, and 9mm) may not provide the same stopping power (remember Miami), while my revered .45 ACP does not have LEO-capacity magazines
 
Hello,

Sig P226 in .40/.357 Sig, for many of RWK's reasons. I could pass on the Bar-Sto barrel though, and buy a couple of cases of practice ammo instead.

Dave
 
No doubt...Glock G31 .357SIG. I work for a small town PD and now carry this pistol. Why would I change my choice for the "Big City"?

Reasons?

#1 Ease of use - You either pull the trigger and shoot or you leave the trigger guard empty and don't shoot. It don't get any easier than that. No levers to manipulate before you can TCB.

#2 excellent combat handling - A Glock just feels natural in my hand. I can get off a quicker first shot and get off my follow up's much quicker with a Glock than I can other pistols.

#3 combat accuracy - Again, Glocks feel natural in my hand. I don't have to struggle to get the sights in line. They come up where they should be. I am more accurate with Glocks than with most other pistols. The only pistol I have owned tht I was more accurate with was a SIG P220 but I wasn't anywhere near as fast with it. We are talking 98's and 99's with Glocks and 100's with the SIG in qualifying. Not a very big difference. It was usually one or two flyers at 25 yards with the Glocks that gave the SIG the advantage.

#4 reliability - I've never had a failure with a Glock that wasn't "cheap practice ammo" related.

#5 durability - You can't rust a Glock no matter how many times it gets rained on, dropped in mud, not properly cared for (not a problem for me, but...), etc... I've never even had holster wear to show on any of my Glocks.

#6 the price - I can get a brand new G31 at an "individual officer" price of $399 with a PD letterhead. I can also get LE/GOVT high cap mags for less than $20 each.

#7 concealability - I find it fairly easy to conceal a full size G17/G22/G31 when carrying off duty. I prefer my G33 for off duty but if I could only have one I could carry the G31 concealed.

As for the caliber...

#8 feed reliability - Stuffing a 9MM bullet into a .40 cal hole is about as reliable as it gets.

#9 accuracy - My experience shows that the .357SIG round is inherently very accurate.

#10 ballistics - I like the preliminary ballistic testing results that have been published on this round. Seems to outperform the .40 after defeating some barriers.

#11 the big bang - I want every advantage I can get if the SHTF. A louder, sharper bang *MAY* induce a psychological response from the BG. If he hears a big, loud bang he might percieve his wounds to be more severe. May or may not happen, but it's possible.

There you have it... :)

------------------
The Glock freak formerly known as Chris...

[This message has been edited by Rainbow Six (edited May 25, 2000).]
 
If possible try to shoot them first, and get what works best for you. Shoot them from odd positions, one-handed, weak side one-handed, etc.

Caliber? 9/40/45/357S? I prefer 40/357, but they all work. What can you hit best with?

Gun? The Glock/SIG are easiest to use (and use against you; get a secure holster and practice). If you can walk and chew gum at the same time, the safety on the S&W and Beretta can be a plus in some situations; it's all up to you if it's a minus in others.

Talk em into putting the USP on the list; if it's good enough for the DEA, INS/Border Patrol, German police & military, Australian SAS, etc, should be good enough for them? :)

The polymer Rugers too; the P95 is good enough for NYPD, the P97 is just as good, and the price is great on both.

------------------
>>>>---->
 
SIG Sauer P228. Easier to carry off duty, accurate, reliable, excellent trigger pulls, and it fits my hand much better than any other pistol.

------------------
So many pistols, so little money.
 
The SIG 229 in either .357SIG or .40S&W. Why? Because ... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ala Dan: ... This choice must also be used for "off duty" and/or plainclothes assignement's ...[/quote]Share what you know, learn what you don't -- FUD
fud-nra.gif
 
Glock 21 -- full-size Glock in .45ACP. You're carrying in a duty rig, so you might as well carry a large gun. The Glock 21 has a nice long sight radius. Manual of arms is simple. It's cheap, reliable, and pretty much impervious to weather.

Since you can choose calibers, you might as well pick .45ACP.

I'm assuming that you have medium to large hands. If your hands are small, you may want to pick something other than a Glock.

Jared
 
Personally, I'd opt for a full sized Glock 22 in .40s&w and get a Glock 27 in .40s&w as a backup.

But if you must get only one, get the Glock 23 in .40s&w. Its versatile enough for everything you want.

The full sized Glock 21 in 45acp is great. But many find it larger than they would prefer for off duty and plainclothes assignments.
 
The Sig 228 and 229 are ruled out because of the 4" barrel restriction (both are 3.9").
Because the 229 is ruled out, I'd go with a Sig 226 in .357 (or .40 if 357 wasn't allowed).



------------------
John
"Never argue with an idiot, they pull you down to their level and beat you with experience"
 
Excellent post so far, by all participants;
but only Broken Arrow made mention of the
fact that the H&K USP wasn't on the list,
as a choice. With that said, he was paying
attention to detail. Sigarms229, forgive me
as we will accept the 3.9 barrel length of
the Sig P228 and 229. Bottom line is, there
were no loser's; as all weapons mentioned
are top quality, excellent sidearms. I guess
I believe the "bigger the better" or "more
bang for the buck"; cause I would choose the
Sig P220A in .45ACP. As a matter of fact, I
already have; since 1988 I have bet my life
on this weapon everyday. Thanks again for the
replies; as I'm sure these post will help some "rookie officer" in his quest for "the
right weapon". :D :)

Very Best Wishes To All,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
I too would choose a Sig 226 in 9mm. I would also specify it had the best resistant finish I could get.

With the experience you have with the 220, you have probably discovered that concealing a gun this size can be a bit of a challenge, but it can be acheived with some creative wardrobe choices. Also something to think about...I believe in the old philosophy

If you carry your badge, you must have your sidearm. If you carry your sidearm, you must have your badge.

Because of that policy, being totally concealed may not be a major concern. Brandishment is usually taken in stride when a badge is odserved in close proximity to the gun. If complete and total concealment is manditory offduty, the policy of the department is retarded. A full size sidearm can be difficult for some to conceal. But that was not specified.

My thinking would be the departmnet should allow its officers a second gun for off duty conealment. The gun should be of like function (i.e. SIg 226/228/225, S&W 5906/3913, Beretta 92/92M, Glock 17/19/26).

So in my choice, I should get a 228 or 225. I would think that would make more sense depending on the desires of the department.



------------------
"By His stripes we are healed..."

PeterGunn
 
This one is easy. Sig Sauer P220 in Safariland level 3 duty rig. Ammo: Federal 230 Grain Hydrashok with one mag in the gun and at least four on the belt if not six.

------------------
"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
Beretta 92FS:

Accurate, reliable, easy to maintain. Like external safety for a duty weapon. Points naturally for me, good capacity, the way I'm built it would not be a problem to carry off duty.
 
Personally I like manual safties on duty guns for retention purposes, I don't think that they slow me down any. So of the guns listed I would probably go with the Beretta 96 in a Brigadeer slide. Preferably the border marshal version. I also liked the 4506 a lot, but Smith can go to hell, I'm boycotting them.

The departments that I am applying for all issue Glocks, two of them issue 22s, and one issues the 17. So I don't really get a choice in the matter.
 
Definately not a Glock.
I'm not particulary anti-Glock but no matter what anyone says, Glock is not a double action pistol. It needs to be cocked to shoot. Miss fire or mag not slammed home properly on reload requires the pistol to be recocked.
Sig, HK and the like require only a second pull of the trigger in those situations. Advantage Sig, HK, and all the other TRUE double action pistols.
That being said, the HK, Sig, or other quality firearm in 357 Sig that fit my hand best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top