BEWARE American Hunters & Shooters Association

C

Connecticut Yankee

New member
From: http://nraila.org/HuntingAndConserv...er/Default.aspx

Some of you might have recently heard of a new organization claiming to represent hunters and gun owners. As is often the case this organization builds a nice website and claims to be a friend of hunters when the reality is they are nothing more than the enemy in camouflage.

The new group calls itself the American Hunters and Shooters Association, a friendly sounding name designed to part unsuspecting hunters and shooters from their hard earned dollars. They claim to be a “rational” voice in the hunting and gun rights policy debate, implying that groups like NRA are irrational.

Everything about AHSA sounds warm and fuzzy, that is unless you take the time to look deeper into their website. Quickly you realize that they want to regulate certain calibers of guns, allow the FBI to keep records on people who buy guns and put an end to gunshows as we know them.

The most telling thing about AHSA is its leadership. A quick look at the website shows that Bob Ricker is listed as AHSA Executive Director. Hunters will remember that Ricker is a former NRA employee who switched sides and has actively worked for gun control groups for many years now. Most recently Ricker was paid by a Virginia based anti-gun group, where he lobbied to shut down gun shows and put further restrictions on gun owners.
John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation.

With leadership like that, there is no doubt about the true goals of AHSA. They are trying to fool hunters and gun owners with a soft sell, while working behind the scenes to end the sport that we all love. I fully expect that next year we will see anti-gun Congressional candidates boasting their AHSA endorsements. Unfortunately, some gun owners will be fooled by this rhetoric, so help us spread the word that AHSA isn’t what they claim to be.
Dawson
Posted By: Dawson

URL for the AHSA http://www.huntersandshooters.com/
 
Hmmmmm

Thanks CY, I had a look though the site. I kept seeing the word "sensible" or "common sense" in their website, as if you're not sensible if you don't agree. More disturbing to me was their quoting a single study about killing family members instead of intruders which, though they acknowlege its bias, they don't back away from. Hard to make an "honest evaluation" with that kind of information.

I wouldn't call them wolves in sheep's clothing, maybe more like Bill Clinton giving a deposition.
 
As a long time shooter, conservationist and gun safety advocate, I believe most law abiding Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their families, to hunt and to enjoy the shooting sports.As a long time shooter, conservationist and gun safety advocate, I believe most law abiding Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their families, to hunt and to enjoy the shooting sports.

I also believe that along with these important Second Amendment rights come responsibilities:

1. the responsibility to obey safe hunting and shooting practices;
2. the responsibility to safely store firearms; and
3. the responsibility to protect and preserve our environment so that future generations will be able to enjoy shooting as much as I have.

There has been a raging debate for sometime between gun control groups and some gun rights organizations about whether keeping a gun in the home for self protection is more likely to endanger the gun owner or a family member than provide emergency self protection.

This important safety issue becomes even more critical when gun crime in a community causes people to consider buying a firearm for self-protection.

The American Hunters and Shooters Association does not promote nor do we discourage keeping a firearm in the home for self-protection. We believe it is inappropriate for anyone to make a one-size-fits-all recommendation that an individual in Maryland, Texas, California or Massachusetts should or should not keep a firearm in the home.

In deciding whether a firearm in the home is a risk or a benefit, four common sense factors must be considered:

1. Is a firearm in the home more likely to be used to protect its owner or is it more likely to be used against a member of the household?
2. How frequently are guns used for self-protection?
3. How effective are handguns when they are used for self-protection?
4. Overall, how safe are guns in the home?

There are certain factors that weigh heavily against keeping a gun in the home for self-protection. One of the most widely quoted statements about guns is that a firearm kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. This comes from the Journal of Medicine in 1986, following a six-year review of gunshot deaths in Seattle, Washington, conducted by Dr. Arthur Kellermann and others. The validity of this study in determining the value and risk of firearms for home protection has been questioned. The Kellermann study focused only on defensive gun uses where the criminal intruder was shot and killed. Instances in which intruders or assailants were wounded or frightened away were not included.

Gun ownership requires an honest evaluation of personal circumstances:

* Are one’s security concerns realistic?
* Do other adults in the household support the decision to keep a gun in the home?
* If others will have access to the firearm, will they take a firearms training and safety course?
* What precautions will be used to safeguard children?
* Do high risk factors such as drug and alcohol abuse exist within the home?

If someone is not willing to accept basic responsibilities and adhere to important rules of gun safety and storage, AHSA recommends against keeping a firearm for home protection.

If you decide to keep a firearm in your home for self-protection, you need to take special safety precautions. Keeping a gun to defend yourself and your family requires strict compliance with safe and responsible firearms storage and handling techniques.

Realistically speaking, in order to safely keep a firearm in the home for self-protection, one must create a situation in which the firearm is readily available when needed, yet inaccessible or inoperative to others.

Quick release trigger locks, chamber/cylinder locks or special locked cases that can be instantly opened by authorized individuals are options that should be considered.

The most important responsibility is ensuring that children do not and cannot gain access to a loaded gun.

Any safety precautions implemented must be completely effective. Most firearm accidents occur when children –often children who do not live in the home – find a firearm that has been left unsecured and loaded.

The American Hunting and Shooting Association emphasizes that keeping a firearm for home protection is not appropriate for all homes or all individuals.

We believe adults who are informed and are adequately trained in firearm safety are capable of making decisions that best suit their individual needs and circumstances. AHSA however, recognizes that there is no simple “yes” or “no” answer to the question of owning a gun for home protection.
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I can agree with him that each person needs to evaluate the situation for himself. I think I disagree on everything else. A lot of skewed logic here and faulty reasoning. I dont see this as anything but an attempt to co-opt gun owners, who ought to know better.
 
Those Alleged "Studies" - Methodology Poor, Their Citations Probably Wrong

They seems to confound two studies here. I don't have time right now to check it out but to the best of my memory the "43 times" more likely figure is from the Journal of Epidemeology in the early 90s. Their methodolgy, especially sample selection and matching groups was flawed. Again, if I remember correctly this was the one where some suicides were included. The Kellerman study was in the New England Journal of Medicine (I ain't never heard of the Journal of Medicine as a major player unless they are mis-citing the American Journal of Medicine). In any case, that was as I recall the matched case control study with Seattle versus Vancouver B.C. I am sure that it was flawed but exactly how doesn't immediately spring to mind.

What they said on their site was: "There are certain factors that weigh heavily against keeping a gun in the home for self-protection. One of the most widely quoted statements about guns is that a firearm kept in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. This comes from the Journal of Medicine in 1986, following a six-year review of gunshot deaths in Seattle, Washington, conducted by Dr. Arthur Kellermann and others. The validity of this study in determining the value and risk of firearms for home protection has been questioned. The Kellermann study focused only on defensive gun uses where the criminal intruder was shot and killed. Instances in which intruders or assailants were wounded or frightened away were not included."
 
Regarding this seemingly newly arisen mob, this American Hunters and Shooters Organization, this series of posts is the first I've heard of them.

Havbing said that, and respecting ther executive manpower i.e. names mentioned, they sound questionable to say the very least. Re such questioins as might be presented by one newly arisen organization or another, and executives you might not have heard of, or know anything about, might I suggest a little research. Pick whichever search engine you like, Google is one, but there are others. Run a name check on the individuals listed.

If you then discover things about these individuals that you aren't happy with or about, that should tell you somethkjng about the organizatiokn s that would have them as executives.

Wasn't it Groucho Marks who once observed, on matters pertaining to club membership, that I would not join any club that would have me as a member?
 
Great! A hunting association for AlGore, Bill Clinton, and John Kerry. Unfortunately, there are a lot of hunters out there that think exactly like they do. :barf:
 
As a long time shooter, conservationist and gun safety advocate, I believe most law abiding Americans have a right to own a gun to protect themselves and their families, to hunt and to enjoy the shooting sports.
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If it went on to say "But in my opinion a gun is not needed at home, and children would be safer if we kept out trap/skeet guns locked up at environmentally friendly government run clubs," it would be about perfect.
 
This about says it all:

Issue: Modern semiautomatic .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles are weapons designed for military use that combine long range, accuracy, and massive power. Intended for use in combat situations, these weapons can penetrate structures and destroy or disable light armored vehicles, radar dishes, helicopters, stationary airplanes, and other “high-value” military targets. The Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, Al Qaeda, the Irish Republican Army, street and motorcycle gangs in California, Missouri and Indiana, and various militia groups and criminals across the United States are all documented as having possessed or used modern .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles.

AHSA supports legislative efforts to regulate .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles in the same manner as machine guns are regulated under the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934.

The modern .50 caliber BMG rifle is one of the most powerful and destructive weapons legally available to civilians in the United States. A modern .50 caliber BMG rifle can hit a target accurately from distances of 1,000 to 2,000 yards, depending on the skill of the shooter, and can reach targets at a longer range with less accuracy. At significantly closer distances, these rifles are much more destructive and able to blast through solid concrete at 200 yards or penetrate an inch of armor plate at 300 yards.

The destructive power of the modern .50 caliber rifle can be intensified by the use of various types of ammunition that is available commercially. In addition to the standard "ball" round of .50 caliber ammunition, armor-piercing, incendiary, and combination armor-piercing and incendiary ammunition for the modern .50 caliber rifles can significantly enhance the destructive capacity, particularly against chemical and industrial facilities and civil aviation targets.

Despite their deadly power, or possibly because of it, .50 caliber rifles in various configurations are proliferating on the civilian firearms market and in many states are subject to less regulation than handguns. Because .50 caliber rifles are classified as long guns under federal law, they can legally be purchased by an 18 year old (unless state law restricts such purchases). 18 U.S.C. § 922(b)(1), (c)(1).

Modern .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles possess no reasonable utility for hunting or self-defense. Design modifications over the past few years have made some .50 caliber rifles lighter and easier to transport. In addition, the once high cost of these guns has dropped with its increase in popularity—prices for new .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles, traditionally in the $4,000 to $7,000 range, have dropped to under $2,000 according to some gun magazines and internet sites.

The .50 caliber BMG’s popularity lies not just with target shooters, but criminals, gangs and terrorists as well.

According to the Office of Special Investigations of the U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO), Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms gun traces involving 50 caliber sniper rifles have “identified some examples of criminal misuse of the .50 caliber rifle with a nexus to terrorism, outlaw motorcycle gangs, international and domestic drug trafficking, and violent crime.” U.S. General Accounting Office. Availability of .50 Caliber Semiautomatic Rifles, 30 June 1999. For additional information, please see the GAO’s Office of Special Investigations briefing report on .50 Caliber Rifle Crime.

Under federal law, firearms sellers who do not possess a federal firearm license can sell 50 caliber rifles to individuals at gun shows and elsewhere without performing a background check on the purchaser. Although some states (such as California, Massachusetts, and New Jersey) regulate private sales and prohibit all sales of firearms without a background check on the purchaser, in most states terrorists and other criminals can easily acquire a .50 caliber BMG sniper rifle.

Currently, .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles are not regulated at the federal level. Legislation has been introduced that would bring the gun under the jurisdiction of the National Firearms Act, which regulates machine guns, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns, and destructive devices. To date, there has been no movement on this legislation.

In September 2004, California became the first state to regulate .50 caliber BMG rifles. Effective January 1, 2005, .50 caliber BMG rifles will fall under California’s Assault Weapons Control Act, Cal. Penal Code §§ 12275-12277, 12280 et seq., which will generally prohibit the weapons' manufacture, sale, importation and possession without registration.

Currently, Maryland is the only other state that in some manner regulates the .50 caliber rifle, classifying the "Barrett light .50 cal. semi-auto" as an assault weapon. Md. Public Safety Code § 5-101(p)(2)(ix). Several other states - Connecticut, Illinois, Massachusetts, New York and Virginia - have considered legislation to regulate this type of weapon.

In the 1920s lightweight fully automatic firearms (machine guns) were available for sale to the general public. Private ownership of machine guns became an issue after the prohibition of liquor in 1919. Prohibition was followed by an increase in organized crime, which involved the use of submachine guns, especially the Thompson .45 caliber, nicknamed the "Tommy Gun".

Following passage of restrictions on fully automatic firearms in several states, the administration of the newly elected president, Franklin D. Roosevelt proposed federal restrictions on the civilian possession and ownership of machine guns. The result of FDR`s efforts was the passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934, (NFA). That law, which was supported by the NRA, requires that before a private citizen may take possession of a fully-automatic firearm they must pay a $200 tax to the Internal Revenue Service, be approved by ATF to own the firearm, and the gun must registered with the federal government.

In 1986, Congress approved the NRA sponsored Firearms Owners` Protection Act (FOPA). ATF has interpreted provisions of FOPA as a prohibition on the civilian possession of all machine guns manufactured after May 19, 1986. The effect of the interpretation has been to "freeze" the number of privately owned machine guns available for private ownership.

Since the passage of the NFA in 1934, crimes committed with machine guns are almost nonexistent.

Because of the potential for criminal misuse, the immense “fire power” and the potential for terrorist use, AHSA believes the .50 caliber BMG sniper rifles should be regulated in the same manner as the federal government regulates machine guns under the provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934.
 
Sent them an email just for fun:

I ran into a link to this site from http://thefiringline.com
and decided to take a look at your organization. From the looks of your organization's board, you are nothing but a group of gun grabbers thinly disguised as a hunting organization. Besides that minor fact, you really don't have anything to offer that Safari Club International, Ducks Unlimited, or North American Hunting Club don't already offer in spades.

I'll be sure to tell all of the people I hunt and shoot with about your organization, a number that is well into the hundreds. Maybe you will find a few members, but its more likely that you won't as you don't represent the attitudes of anyone I know.


Sincerely,

Brian M
 
John Rosenthal of AHSA&"Stop Handgun Violence" of Mass.

Per original NRAILA post: "John Rosenthal is listed as President of the AHSA Foundation. Rosenthal is one of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, a group that has been a major force in passing some of the most draconian state gun laws in the nation."

If you go to: http://www.stophandgunviolence.com/links.asp#firearms, the first five links are: The Brady Center, Americans for Gun Safety (another wolf in sheep's clothing!), Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, Joint Together and the Six or Eight or So (Maybe Ten on a Good Day) Mom's March! I mean what more need be said? Spread the word at the range and with all your friends, these guys are gun-grabbers!
 
Just received the August issue of the Charles Daly Newsletter. Seems that all that's been posted here is true. Here's a cut and paste of that section of the newsletter.


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It was recently related to Charles Daly that a new organization called American Hunters and Shooters Association was giving away Charles Daly Shotguns to select "Founding Members." While we appreciate that AHSA has a fine eye for quality shotguns, by no way does this amount to an implicit endorsement by Charles Daly of this new organization with a left leaning tilt.

The AHSA leadership is notorious for their alignment with decided anti-Second Amendment factions. Their leadership includes:

Ray Schoenke. This former Democratic gubernatorial candidate has championed many liberal causes in the past including Athletes For McGovern.

Bob Rickers. Once an NRA employee and former director of the firearms industry association, ASSC, Rickers has since switched sides and begun working for gun control groups lobbying to shut down gun shows and further restrict gun owners.

John Rosenthal. One of the founders of the Massachusetts based group Stop Handgun Violence, which has the led the fight in Massachusetts to pass the Gun Control Act of 1998, providing Massachusetts with the some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country requiring licensing, registration, gun safety training, and storage on all firearms. Further this act banned assault weapons and what the state deemed "junk guns" and requires gun dealers to perform background checks and register every firearm sold.

Jody Powell. Former press secretary to President Jimmy Carter.

Again, we are pleased that this association has chosen Charles Daly shotguns and appreciate their discerning eye when it comes to selecting a quality firearm. But Charles Daly is not associated with, nor does it endorse the American Hunters and Shooters Association.


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Lott re:AHSA Democrats set up fake organizations to support gun control

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/2005/08/democrats-set-up-fake-organizations-to.html

8/3/2005
Democrats set up fake organizations to support gun control policies
Democratic Leadership Council use PR firm to push more Gun Laws

A Washington based PR Firm called DCS - Internet Advocacy Group thats used by a list of who's who in the Democrat party as well as the official PR firm for the Democrat leadership Council (DLC) that Sen. Hillary Clinton is the 'Chair' member as well as reportedly hand pick DCS to do ALL of the DLC PR work.

DCS Has register a bogus 'Pro-Gun' sportsmen group in the attempt to make it appear as hunters and trap shooters are in favor of Assault weapon 'bans as well as other anti gun related issues.

By creating this made up group called The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA), who will inevitably be used in future Democrat led anti gun campaigns in the near future as so called 'expert' witnesses or a 'sane' voice of sportsmen. just so the anti gun democrats can grandstand for gun control non-issues via their willing accomplishes in the press. I'd imagine the closer we get to the '08' presidential election the more (AHSA) will be in the news.

Dick Morris , former Clinton PR man has stated numerously how the Democrats and Sen. Hillary have personally created made up Internet based advocacy groups repeatedly in the past to drum up false public support to site at their press conferences and Senate hearings, just so the Democrats will get their names put out in the news. According to Morris, During the Clinton administration there was a brainstorming group under then first lady Hillary's oversight inside the white house who did this kind of fabricated PR all the time.

So who did DCS make as the head of their bogus gun group, well none other than John Rosenthal, Co founder of Stop Handgun Violence (SHV). SHV has supported every anti-second amendment rights bill since the organizations creation.The personal pet anti gun group of the anti-gun Democrats.

The following background on all involved was uncovered.

[1.] The bogus Pro gun group: The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 200, Washington, District of Columbia 20003 As listed on their website and on their domain name registration.

Its domain name: http://www.huntersandshooters.com was registered on 25-Apr-05 by Registrant:DCS - Internet Advocacy Group, 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE,suite 200,Washington, District of Columbia

20003 As listed on DCS website and on their domain name registration.
DCS website is located here: http://dcscongressional.com/

[2.] The Democrat leadership council http://www.dlc.org/
is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 400, Washington, District of Columbia 20003 As listed on their website and on their domain name registration.

[3.] The PR Firm called DCS- Internet Advocacy Group http://dcscongressional.com/
is located at: 600 Pennsylvania Ave SE, suite 200, Washington, District of Columbia 20003

[4.] So ALL three groups:The Democrat leadership council (DLC) , DCS - Internet Advocacy Group and The American Hunters and Shooters Association (AHSA) Are located in the same building and all three groups are pushing to take away your rights via their made up causes for the sake of getting their faces in the news.

According to Bernstein Management Corp. the Property Managements website: http://www.bernsteinmgmt.com/
Location: 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, SE Washington, DC,
Contact Number: (202) 363-6301 Austin Herndon

Please click through on the main link to get the original source for this.
posted by John Lott at 3:00 PM
 
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