better watch out if you didn't load those handloads... broken gun...

M

Magnum Wheel Man

New member
so... 1st some back ground info... I bought a new Bisley flat top 44 Special for myself, for Christmas... I have many others, but this is my 1st Bisley... it was finally warm enough ( & Mrs. was at a quilt retreat ) that I'd try to shoot it this weekend... I've been loading for close to 20 years, I learned from my FIL, who died 6-7 years after I started loading... MRS & I inherited his collection, & his loading stuff, which we incorporated into our collection... I've shot many of the FIL's hand loads over the years...

so... I had some odds & ends ammo I wanted to shoot up, to free up some brass, 6 R-P old lead factory loads, & 6 WW old lead factory loads, & 20 or so 240 grain jacketed hand loads that were tagged as 12.3 grains of 2400, I assume loaded by my FIL, though now after the fact, they had an old neighbors name on the tag... I assumed FIL had loaded them for him... but in hindsight, perhaps he got them from the neighbor ???

I shot the lead factory loads 1st, at my CAS targets, then switched to the hand loads... 1st thing I noticed, was it kicked more... but I expected that, with jacketed hollow points... after 5 shots, the gun felt funny, & I looked it over more closely... when I noticed the small split in the cylinder at the cylinder stop notch on one of the chambers :eek:

so I pulled the cylinder, & had trouble pushing out the empties... the primers were flat, but the firing pin dents were not cratered... the one that had not been fired, dropped right out ( which I put in my pocket to check later )

some more back ground info, & in hind sight, should have caused me to check the loads better... FIL did not have a 44 special, so I assume he was shooting them in his Dan Wesson 44 Magnum...

down in my loading room, I pulled the bullet from the remaining cartridge... the powder did not look like 2400... looked like Unique to me, & the charge scaled 16.5 grains :eek: which is at least a double charge for the 44 Special, & nearly 1.5 times the powder maximum for the 44 magnum...:mad:

if I had shot the revolver more, or even a Bisley more, I would have known they seemed too hot, I could have possibly saved the cylinder... the base pin pulled normal, so it & the frame seem OK I don't know why people use locking base pins, as mine stayed put with gun destroying charges... I'm going to have my retired machinist buddy make me a new cylinder & check over the gun...

just posting this as a warning to those shooters out there that shoot others reloads... pull those bullets & reload them... I've not run across this gross of an error with the FIL's loads before, but it takes only once to wreck a gun, or worse, damage or kill the shooter...

I'm very anal when it come to my reloading... but a little lazy when it came to pulling down my FIL's old loads... you can bet I'll be thinking about this the next time I pull a box of ammo & find more of his handloads...
 
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Your situation is the reason why I don't shoot ammunition that comes from other people. I won't even trust a box of factory ammunition that someone gives me along with a gun I buy unless I know the person. I guess I'm just not a very trusting person.
 
About 20 years ago I shot some loads made up by a friend who did commercial reloading. Figured he knew what he was doing. Well, he double charged a 45 Colt case with 16 grains of Unique and bulged the cylinder of my 1917 New Service. I was lucky when I found a replacement for $65 and that set it all right.

I had a powder charge stick in the dispenser when loading some 243s for a Ruger #1. Happened to be shooting over the chronograph and the overloaded round clocked 3600 FPS. Had to pound the case out with a steel rod. Next round had 1/2 powder so the one I shot had 1&1/2. No damage.

You do need to be careful.
 
The reverse is true also. You could meticulously load some some cartridges, even at a starter charge, for a friend. If something happens to the gun, nothing to do with your loads, guess who is the first suspect & gets the blame(?)
 
If it was Unique that much of an overcharge would explain what happened.

A few years ago I was pushing the envelope with Unique and 158 grain XTP's for a hunting load and started getting flattened primers and excessive pressure signs and I wasn't even near the overcharge level you are describing. This was with a full sized Blackhawk 357 Magnum so the firearm survived in tact. I have read several times that Unique can be very spikey and I agree with that.

I still load with Unique but it isn't a powder I do any hot rodding with.
 
crabby cell phone pic, but this white line is the crack...

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Eghads, but anyone who reloads long enough runs the risk of making a mistake.
And all it takes is one.
Years ago, a fellow member at a club always, generously, shared his reloaded ammo with whoever had run short and needed some.
It was good stuff, and the price was right.
Until the day he blew up his .357, sending gun parts through the roof.
 
Eghads, but anyone who reloads long enough runs the risk of making a mistake.
And all it takes is one.
Click to expand...

Yeah.

I'm not perfect. (Just ask around.) So this is a constant although low-grade worry for me. Nobody is ever going to cure me of it. It's very irritating and somewhat unsettling.

But collecting stamps is just soooooooo dull.

Many condolences on your situation Magnum.
 
I was able to find a new, unfired, replacement cylinder... good thing these have been used for custom guns enough that there are a few extra cylinders around... I'm thinking I'll go that route rather than having a custom cylinder built... I took the gun to my buddies for a check out... everything else looks good... in fact, he bet me that if he pressed the crack tight, & honed the cylinder that I could probably use that cylinder for cowboy level 44 Special loads... I don't think I'm interested in that, but in looking at it, it's swollen just a little at the crack, & the fitment in the frame window is so tight, that area rubs on the bottom of the frame... which is what got my attention when I was firing it...
 
It can easily happen. Especially with all the different platforms out there. I try to keep a tight reign on my handloads. I have some 357 loads that I use in my Contender that I don't doubt would do some real damage to a wheel gun. And I don't even talk about my 32-20 loads.:eek:
 
So this is a constant although low-grade worry for me. Nobody is ever going to cure me of it. It's very irritating and somewhat unsettling.
Click to expand...

Don't let the "low-grade worry" bother you. That's what keeps you on your toes and checking and recheckking everything.

It's when you start thinking "I got this, nothing can go wrong" that you really need to worry.
 
Nobody is mistake-free, but when you handload as I do (grab a piece of empty brass with your left hand, dip and charge with your right hand and then set the brass in neat rows off to your left), it's hard to make a double charge. If the phone rings or you get otherwise interrupted, just finish the piece you are holding and attend to it. Of course, you still have to make sure you are using the right powder and dipper.

Glad you were not hurt.
 
unfortunately... ( not sure if I got this point across ) but right now I'm assuming that all 20 or so of these are double charges, of a load hotter than is listed in my manuals... so not just one or two cartridges loaded by accident... the 5 shots I fired all had the same recoil... I haven't had time to pull the rest down yet, but will be checking the powder charges on all the rest of that group...
 
Yeah, twenty rounds that ain't right are just discards.
I once realized a bunch of 9mms were wrong, fortunately before firing any.
Had to unload nearly 300 of them, with an impact tool.
You know, the ones that look like a hammer.
Didn't have to go to the gym that day.
Stay sharp.

he bet me that if he pressed the crack tight, & honed the cylinder that I could probably use that cylinder for cowboy level 44 Special loads
Click to expand...
See if he'll do the honors.
Don't forget to offer to hold his beer, though.
 
Doesn't sound like the original loader made any mistakes as he meant these for a different gun. The mistake was in going by somebody else's tags and notes. If I die, make sure you fire those .38's in boxes marked "magnum only" in a .357 magnum, and not a .38!
 
my current loading mentor is my retired tool & die maker buddy, we've both scratched our heads on this one... at that charge level, in the shorter than magnum cases of the 44 Special, my buddy pulled a 60,000 PSI estimate out of his head... I can't imagine those would be safe in any 44 Magnum ???

we've tried to come up with some logical reason for them to be charged as they are ( like the adjustment on the powder measure loosened up, & started putting more powder in the case ) we'll have a better idea after I pull all the bullets & weigh the powder charges... if they are all the same, at 16.5 grains, that is just plain irresponsible... if they vary, it may be something like the loose powder adjuster... I suppose they could be 1.5 times over max for 44 magnum, & they accidently put them in 44 special cases... but the bullets were crimped, which would require a die adjustment, if they were mixed in with 44 magnum
 
An interesting academic study. The main thing is to not shoot them. In anything.

A doubled or wrong powder .44 Special is too much for even a .44 Magnum.

I would expect a current Ruger Special to hold a mere 150% load meant to shoot in a Magnum gun. Ref Elmer Keith. Although he did blow up some guns.
 
I'm understanding now. I thought he did mag loads in spl cases.

Looks like he actually thought he was pouring 2400 into those cases that he labeled as such. I don't use 2400, but with 21gr max for 44 mag, that sounds like a reasonable charge for a spl with 2400. Maybe a case of misidentified powder. Did old 2400 labels look a lot like Unique?
 
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