better caliber for a 1st time hunter
- Thread starter mmasteve
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More info..........
Type of gun?
Hunting conditions?
Size of hunter?
My wife uses a single shot .243. In the last few years she's shot a dozen or so hogs with it without losing any of them. It's light and kicks hardly at all.
That said I generally like a bigger bullet, .35 Rem or 45-70.
But then we hunt thick stuff here in Florida. Never shoot anything over about 50 yards, most inside 25. In a different type situation you would want a different rifle. And my choice of a .35 Rem or a 45-70 goes out the window when you're talking grain fields or very open woods with 150+ yard shots possible.
Type of gun?
Hunting conditions?
Size of hunter?
My wife uses a single shot .243. In the last few years she's shot a dozen or so hogs with it without losing any of them. It's light and kicks hardly at all.
That said I generally like a bigger bullet, .35 Rem or 45-70.
But then we hunt thick stuff here in Florida. Never shoot anything over about 50 yards, most inside 25. In a different type situation you would want a different rifle. And my choice of a .35 Rem or a 45-70 goes out the window when you're talking grain fields or very open woods with 150+ yard shots possible.
What range will most of your game be taken at? If you are limited to shots around 100 yards then you could make a good case for the .30-30. If you have shots that will be beyond 200 yards then the .243 will win out. Both will work on deer and hogs well, but with the .243 resist the urge to use light bullets stay around 100 grains and you will do fine.
What kind of action do you prefer, most .30-30's will be a lever action and the .243 will be bolt actions. Both types of actions can be very useful to the type of hunting you are doing. That settles it you need both.
What kind of action do you prefer, most .30-30's will be a lever action and the .243 will be bolt actions. Both types of actions can be very useful to the type of hunting you are doing. That settles it you need both.
If your question is an either/or proposition based on available resources, I'd opt for the one you have, or can get, the most practice with. Within the useful ranges for either cartridge, the critters should never know the difference.
That mention of useful range is a key consideration, though. Ballistics software says that, from a scoped rifle, the Hornady .30-30 160 Evolution, the hottest .30-30 I found in a brief search, is ±3" to 231.4 yards. Hornady's 100 grain .243 Win Light Magnum, the hottest 100 grainer I found, is ±3" to 297.5 yards. The difference is significant, but only at longer ranges. Naturally stalking is an equalizer, but stalking is not one of a first time hunter's strong points.
As to the matter of .243 Win necessitating a bolt action, the Savage Model 99 and the Winchester Model 88 are two fine lever action rifles available in .243 Win.
That mention of useful range is a key consideration, though. Ballistics software says that, from a scoped rifle, the Hornady .30-30 160 Evolution, the hottest .30-30 I found in a brief search, is ±3" to 231.4 yards. Hornady's 100 grain .243 Win Light Magnum, the hottest 100 grainer I found, is ±3" to 297.5 yards. The difference is significant, but only at longer ranges. Naturally stalking is an equalizer, but stalking is not one of a first time hunter's strong points.
As to the matter of .243 Win necessitating a bolt action, the Savage Model 99 and the Winchester Model 88 are two fine lever action rifles available in .243 Win.
shes a female around 130. i have some experince with a 30/30 but never fired a 243. just wondering which would be a better round for a SMALL FRAMED rookie. most of her shots will be inside of 100 maybe 120 yards but that would be pushing it. im in oklahoma so the deer are average sized mostly and the hogs we will be hunting are 150 to 250.
Please! Engage the lady in the choice at every turn. Do not present a solution as a fait accompli. Visit www.corneredcat.com for advice on advising women.
"Small framed" says to me that fit will be more critical than caliber choice. If one rifle fits well and the other does not, the choice has been made unless you are prepared to modify the one that does not fit. Within the ranges you give, caliber choice is trifling. Shot placement , on the other hand, is always critical. Shot placement calls for practice. Practicing with a poorly fit rifle, especially one with an excessive length of pull, is a chore, not the fun it should be. Nobody likes chores and almost all will dodge them if they can.
If you are choosing between rifles you already have and neither fit the lady, consider the ease and cost of shortening each. A good recoil pad couldn't hurt. Look at the height of the comb: most full sized rifles do not allow small faced shooters to get cheek weld and sight use at the same time, especially with scopes. A lace on cheek piece can be very effective, if not elegant.
"Small framed" says to me that fit will be more critical than caliber choice. If one rifle fits well and the other does not, the choice has been made unless you are prepared to modify the one that does not fit. Within the ranges you give, caliber choice is trifling. Shot placement , on the other hand, is always critical. Shot placement calls for practice. Practicing with a poorly fit rifle, especially one with an excessive length of pull, is a chore, not the fun it should be. Nobody likes chores and almost all will dodge them if they can.
If you are choosing between rifles you already have and neither fit the lady, consider the ease and cost of shortening each. A good recoil pad couldn't hurt. Look at the height of the comb: most full sized rifles do not allow small faced shooters to get cheek weld and sight use at the same time, especially with scopes. A lace on cheek piece can be very effective, if not elegant.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I"ll go along with the idea of a .243; 100-grain loads work quite well on deer and hogs.
Definitely let her feel and fondle various brands/types of rifles. It's gonna be her rifle, and it oughta suit her and nobody else. The length of the buttstock is critical, but that can be shortened if need be.
Definitely let her feel and fondle various brands/types of rifles. It's gonna be her rifle, and it oughta suit her and nobody else. The length of the buttstock is critical, but that can be shortened if need be.
I think the real choice here is between action types. Does she like levers, bolts, or semi's? If she is not really drawn to one then let her handle each and see which fits best. After handling all three she will have a preference for the type of action she wants. If it's lever get the 30-30. If it's bolt or semi get the .243.
Also I'm not sure why so many people think the 30-303 is a 100 yard gun. The Remington 170 gr hp core-lokt sighted 2.73 inches high at 100 yards will be zeroed at 170 yards and will have a point blank range for animals with 6" vital zones of 200 yards. That is it will not be more than 3 inches high or 3 inches low out to 200 yards. At 200 yards it is still going 1619fps with 990 ft-lbs of energy. The Hornady LeverRevolution ammo will add at least another 50 yards to the point blank range of the 30-30. The .243 with a 90gr bullet will give a 300 yard point blank range. Realistically I think anything over 200 yards is a looooong shot for any hunter and is well beyond the range of a new hunter so the extra flat shooting range of the .243 is not really an advantage since it is unlikely to ever be used.
Also I'm not sure why so many people think the 30-303 is a 100 yard gun. The Remington 170 gr hp core-lokt sighted 2.73 inches high at 100 yards will be zeroed at 170 yards and will have a point blank range for animals with 6" vital zones of 200 yards. That is it will not be more than 3 inches high or 3 inches low out to 200 yards. At 200 yards it is still going 1619fps with 990 ft-lbs of energy. The Hornady LeverRevolution ammo will add at least another 50 yards to the point blank range of the 30-30. The .243 with a 90gr bullet will give a 300 yard point blank range. Realistically I think anything over 200 yards is a looooong shot for any hunter and is well beyond the range of a new hunter so the extra flat shooting range of the .243 is not really an advantage since it is unlikely to ever be used.
Redneckrepairs
New member
By all means take the lady shooting . Get her out to a range and any there will likely allow her to take a shot or two with what they brought . This way she can try out a variaty of actions and calibers . Then listen to HER about her likes and dislikes . Use that to try and find what will suit her , and remember that a stock can be cut down for her if she liked everything about a rifle but the reach . To your q tho my petite blonde has 3 rifles , a 10-22 ruger , a sks as a truck gun , and a ruger 77 .308 for hunting . All are her choices not mine .
I don't think any of us doubt that a .30-30 can be used beyond 100 yards but realistically after 150 yards the power and trajectory really begin to fall off. The power is the biggest factor for me because if you know how the rifle shoots you can compensate for trajectory. I feel that the .30-30 is truly at home in the dark woods where most shots will be limited to around 100 +/- yards.
Look at your own statement and you will see what I'm talking about. You have to zero for 170 to get an extra 30 yards out of the rifle. It drops roughly 3" in 70 yards past 100 and after 170 you drop 3" in 30 yards, that is quiet an accelerated rate. Used within it's limitations the .30-30 Win is a fine deer rifle that can even be used for elk.
This all really depends on the terrain that you hunt in. Where I hunt 200 yards shots can be the norm and 3-400 yard shots not uncommon. I'm pretty confident that using my sticks or shooting from a good seated or prone position any animal out to 300 yards will be going home with me. I've taken quiet a few game animals at or beyond 200 yards to include bear, mule deer, elk, and pronghorn as well as several varmints. If you hunt where the 200 yard shot is rare then I can see how you think it is a long one.
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What was said above about the rifle "fitting" her is important. And the idea of including her, for that matter including any new hunter in the selection of their first rifle is also a good one.
For someone unfamiliar with firearms the more simple a rifle is the better.
My wife uses a NEF Handi Rifle in .243, a Youth Model. It's light, small and accurate. And it is SIMPLE and inexpensive. What it is not is attractive, just not a perty gun.
For someone unfamiliar with firearms the more simple a rifle is the better.
My wife uses a NEF Handi Rifle in .243, a Youth Model. It's light, small and accurate. And it is SIMPLE and inexpensive. What it is not is attractive, just not a perty gun.
+1 on the .243.
A 30/30 could work for close in shots and as a brush gun if those are the shots she wants to take.
But a .243 will do the job out as far as a beginning hunter ought to be shooting.
I always opt for flexibility and a "little extra" that can be a factor of safety. Heck, you never know if your rifle will run afoul in the field and you'll need to borrow her's for a 200 yard'er.
A 30/30 could work for close in shots and as a brush gun if those are the shots she wants to take.
But a .243 will do the job out as far as a beginning hunter ought to be shooting.
I always opt for flexibility and a "little extra" that can be a factor of safety. Heck, you never know if your rifle will run afoul in the field and you'll need to borrow her's for a 200 yard'er.
taylorce1 said:
For the .243 to maximize point blank range (pbr) for a 6" vital zone you zero it a 250 yards to get a pbr of 295 yards, so it's dropping 3" in 45 yards.
With the 160gr LeverEvolution ammo and a spire tip on the 30-30 sighted for 3" high at 100 yards it is still .2" high at 200 yards and only down 12" at 300 where it still has over 1000 ft-lbs of energy, as does the .243 at that range. The original 30-30 load I had the trajectory for still has slightly more energy at 375 yards than a .357 does at the muzzle. There is no doubt that the .243 is much flatter shooting and is a fine caliber but out to 200 yards (250 with the right ammo) in actual use both guns can just be aimed and shot with no need to adjust hold-over for the distance.
My point was that even though he said most of the expected shots she would be taking would be within 120 yards she would be in no way hindered by the 30-30 should a longer shot present itself. This made the choice not one of caliber but of platform.
I don't own either of these calibers so I am not trying to play one over the other, I just don't want to see the 30-30 discounted so quickly for longer range work, where it still has plenty of power to do the job should the occasion call for it.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
On most lever-action .30-30s, the factory iron sights don't really allow for precision shooting. IMO, that's the main drawback to them. I doubt power is a factor, anywhere inside 400 yards. With good sights and knowing the range and trajectory, neither is bullet drop. But due to the relatively light weight of such as the Model 94, the recoil bothers quite a few people...
Just a thought or two...
Have you looked at the new CVA Optima line? They're center-fires. I'll let you look up the data and decide if it's worth introducing her to for fit and function.
Also, Craig Boddingtons' 16y/o daughter (granddaughter?) made some great sport in Africa with a 7-08 that included a zebra. Not a brutal, nor a faint-hearted cartridge.
Have you looked at the new CVA Optima line? They're center-fires. I'll let you look up the data and decide if it's worth introducing her to for fit and function.
Also, Craig Boddingtons' 16y/o daughter (granddaughter?) made some great sport in Africa with a 7-08 that included a zebra. Not a brutal, nor a faint-hearted cartridge.
TheShootist1894
New member
1/4 Bores anyone??
257 Roberts, one rifle that no man will buy from me. . . .
Ruger M-77-R Sporter Weight Hunting Machine
Bedded action, lightened trigger, Leupold VXIII 3.5-10X40 (no AO)
Accurate, lets say 2.25" at 300yds to be generous to the naysayers. . .
BTW Naysayers, I invite you down to my range anytime. . .
But really a 257, or any other 1/4 bore would be perfect, because it is in the mystical 1/4" genre that : Accuracy meets Comfort meets Knockdown
And Ruger makes a Hell of a rifle, used ones are cheap and well built, if you prefer lever guns, Marlin is the obvious choice. . . on the cheaper end H&r Nef SS are no slouch. . .
This is my rifle rant
257 Roberts, one rifle that no man will buy from me. . . .
Ruger M-77-R Sporter Weight Hunting Machine
Bedded action, lightened trigger, Leupold VXIII 3.5-10X40 (no AO)
Accurate, lets say 2.25" at 300yds to be generous to the naysayers. . .
BTW Naysayers, I invite you down to my range anytime. . .
But really a 257, or any other 1/4 bore would be perfect, because it is in the mystical 1/4" genre that : Accuracy meets Comfort meets Knockdown
And Ruger makes a Hell of a rifle, used ones are cheap and well built, if you prefer lever guns, Marlin is the obvious choice. . . on the cheaper end H&r Nef SS are no slouch. . .
This is my rifle rant
Full-choke
New member
Well, just because theshootist is on his qtr bore kick again...I'm gonna say go a little bigger.
Whitetail and Hog, I would look at the 30-06 for a first timer. Ammo is everywhere and there are all kinds of loads. Match it with a good and inexpensive rifle like a Ruger, Savage or Remington; some good glass like Bushnell, Nikon and Leupold and you will have a spot on gun. You can never run out of critters to put down with the ole -06!
On the more fun side, I say 45-70. A little bit bigger, but just as much fun. Something like a Marlin 1895 or even an H&R Handi-Rifle would make a great hunting gun. Small, reliable and fun to shoot. The 45-70 doesn't quite do as much but it is still going to take a deer just fine and put down a hog just as good if not better then the 30-06.
F-C
Whitetail and Hog, I would look at the 30-06 for a first timer. Ammo is everywhere and there are all kinds of loads. Match it with a good and inexpensive rifle like a Ruger, Savage or Remington; some good glass like Bushnell, Nikon and Leupold and you will have a spot on gun. You can never run out of critters to put down with the ole -06!
On the more fun side, I say 45-70. A little bit bigger, but just as much fun. Something like a Marlin 1895 or even an H&R Handi-Rifle would make a great hunting gun. Small, reliable and fun to shoot. The 45-70 doesn't quite do as much but it is still going to take a deer just fine and put down a hog just as good if not better then the 30-06.
F-C
mikejonestkd
New member
.243 win in a bolt rifle that fits her. Take a good look at the rem model 7. let her choose the rifle. Use 100 grain bullets and she'll be all set.