Best way to smooth out trigger action?
- Thread starter joelberg
- Start date
Joe,
This may be of some help to you. I found exactly the opposite situation in an 1863 Pocket. The situation is that I am in the process (long process) of rehabbing an 1863 Pocket Remington that I bought (in pieces) from one of the emanent scholars on this forum.
Unable to find ASM parts (its an ASM pistol) I had to resort to some stuff from Pietta most notably the hammer. This required a bit of fitting and filing just the get to the point where I could pull back the hammer with the trigger installed.
But once I had the hammer-trigger interface to the point at which it was at least free, I found that working the action smoothed the movement.
I don't know that this is good news. What it means is that cycling the hammer is changing the contours in a microscopic way. (Not rocket science, its called "wear") The fact that the smoothing of the action took place relatively quickly (only about fifty to one hundred operations of the hammer) tells me that in filing the parts I took off enough metal to get below the point at which the case hardening had its desired effect. At one or more points in the trigger or hammer or both, I got down to soft metal.
So now, unless I do some hardening, I can look forward to a shorter life of the action of this pistol. I guess I should have figured this might happen, but I only just started on this project and it is my first at home gunsmithing that is any more than just replacing springs or nipples or building kits.
I am a novice, but that does not seem to matter because when I offer comments there are plenty of smarter folks who come in an get me straight, So here goes:
The sources of roughness in my action was trigger to hammer contact surfaces. When I removed the interference and smoothed those surfaces the roughness went away. Obviously there are other contact surfaces which might be equally at fault.
You might examine those surfaces, probably with a magnifier, looking for roughness that can be shaped. I hope that others in the group who may endorse this idea will also inform us as to the best way to restore the hardness to the surface.
If it is wear from use that has cause the rough action, you might look for other places on the parts at which the case hardening has been worn away to shiney metal.
You might also see if simply replacing the hammer screw will set things right.
This may be of some help to you. I found exactly the opposite situation in an 1863 Pocket. The situation is that I am in the process (long process) of rehabbing an 1863 Pocket Remington that I bought (in pieces) from one of the emanent scholars on this forum.
Unable to find ASM parts (its an ASM pistol) I had to resort to some stuff from Pietta most notably the hammer. This required a bit of fitting and filing just the get to the point where I could pull back the hammer with the trigger installed.
But once I had the hammer-trigger interface to the point at which it was at least free, I found that working the action smoothed the movement.
I don't know that this is good news. What it means is that cycling the hammer is changing the contours in a microscopic way. (Not rocket science, its called "wear") The fact that the smoothing of the action took place relatively quickly (only about fifty to one hundred operations of the hammer) tells me that in filing the parts I took off enough metal to get below the point at which the case hardening had its desired effect. At one or more points in the trigger or hammer or both, I got down to soft metal.
So now, unless I do some hardening, I can look forward to a shorter life of the action of this pistol. I guess I should have figured this might happen, but I only just started on this project and it is my first at home gunsmithing that is any more than just replacing springs or nipples or building kits.
I am a novice, but that does not seem to matter because when I offer comments there are plenty of smarter folks who come in an get me straight, So here goes:
The sources of roughness in my action was trigger to hammer contact surfaces. When I removed the interference and smoothed those surfaces the roughness went away. Obviously there are other contact surfaces which might be equally at fault.
You might examine those surfaces, probably with a magnifier, looking for roughness that can be shaped. I hope that others in the group who may endorse this idea will also inform us as to the best way to restore the hardness to the surface.
If it is wear from use that has cause the rough action, you might look for other places on the parts at which the case hardening has been worn away to shiney metal.
You might also see if simply replacing the hammer screw will set things right.
grymster2007
New member
On the plus side Doc, while you may have filed off most of the case hardening, once the parts get sort of "lapped" in, friction may be minimized, in which case wear will slow.
Grym
True.
I wonder if it is worth going through the hardening process. I guess if anticipated use of the pistol is high, then anything which reduces the susceptibility to wear is a good thing.
Speaking of "lapping in" I was wondering about the idea of using some lapping compound when I was going through the process of smoothing the action on the 1863.
As it happened the action started working smooth fairly quickly and so I immediately put lapping compound out of my mind. Now I am trying to get it right with the bolt installed. I may be looking for additional options.
Okay...Now I have successfully hyjacked this thread. All other coments should address Joel's question.
True.
I wonder if it is worth going through the hardening process. I guess if anticipated use of the pistol is high, then anything which reduces the susceptibility to wear is a good thing.
Speaking of "lapping in" I was wondering about the idea of using some lapping compound when I was going through the process of smoothing the action on the 1863.
As it happened the action started working smooth fairly quickly and so I immediately put lapping compound out of my mind. Now I am trying to get it right with the bolt installed. I may be looking for additional options.
Okay...Now I have successfully hyjacked this thread. All other coments should address Joel's question.
grymster2007
New member
Well, Joel asked about smoothing a trigger, so I think we're still sorta on track.
I don't think I'd use lapping compound, but if I did, I'd make damn sure to get all of it out of the gun when I was finished. As for hardening, you might not need to. How much material do you think you removed with the filing? The case hardening should probably have been .015" - .030" deep, so maybe you did not get all the way through it? Or, did you notice the filing got easier at some point?
I don't think I'd use lapping compound, but if I did, I'd make damn sure to get all of it out of the gun when I was finished. As for hardening, you might not need to. How much material do you think you removed with the filing? The case hardening should probably have been .015" - .030" deep, so maybe you did not get all the way through it? Or, did you notice the filing got easier at some point?
Stone the roughness out of the hammer and trigger where they meet and smooth any tooling marks on the sides of the hammer where it could rub the frame and smooth any burrs or tool marks where parts move inside of the frame. Do not change the angles where the trigger engages the hammer notches. You just want to smooth the roughness up. Don't use a file. Use a honing stone or emery cloth.
madcratebuilder
New member
Are you familiar with the inner workings of the revolver? Have you used a stone on a hammer or sear before? First disassemble and inspect, checking for any wear on the sear and the hammer notch. Smooth any rough area with your stone. You are not trying to remove metal, just getting a smooth surface.
I know some guys use it, but I would avoid lapping compound on a hammer and sear.
grymster2007
New member
Very true.
If you're not very knowledgeable about the mechanisms and skillful with the tools, bring it to a smith. Probably must of us here are OK doing a bit of stoning, but knowing your limitations is important.
Why not try a moly "super grease" paste like this one from RWS.
It's so slick that it's not recommended to apply it to a target trigger sear that's already very light. But it's also sometimes called a "trigger job in a jar".
At $4.25 it's worth a try.
It's so slick that it's not recommended to apply it to a target trigger sear that's already very light. But it's also sometimes called a "trigger job in a jar".
At $4.25 it's worth a try.
http://www.airgunwarehouseinc.com/py-a-1229.html
Over 60% moly. Used for super tuning and almost eliminating wear. Externally, use it on all moving joints, etc. Beautifully smoothes rough joints, etc. Generally too slick for trigger sears, but excellent in chambers. Also used in breech to ease pellet insertion. Use sparingly for best results. Great for all air and CO2 guns. 1/2 oz. jar.
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I'm pretty familiar with the internal workings of the gun. I've disassembled it completely for cleaning a couple times now thinking that would smooth out the action, but it didn't, it's still rough. I guess I'll try to polish/hone up the parts mentioned and see if that will help.
Thanks for the advice, and I don't mind if the thread gets off topic!
I'm going to inspect the surfaces to check for microscopic pitting and roughness, then polish up what I find. Thanks guys.
Thanks for the advice, and I don't mind if the thread gets off topic!
I'm going to inspect the surfaces to check for microscopic pitting and roughness, then polish up what I find. Thanks guys.