Jamie Young
New member
I'm looking for a scope for a 30/06 scope. Can anyone give me any first hand experience on Tactical Scopes?
Best Tactical Or Long Range Scopes
- Thread starter Jamie Young
- Start date
"Tactical" is one of those over used trendy gun words.
How far and what size target do you want to shoot at? A
human size target at 200M? (You are talking tactical use, right?)Then a "Tactical" scope will probably work. Smaller targets or longer ranges you might want to look at an LRT.
The Leupold Tactical I have is 3.5X10X50 AO,target turrets. The Leupold LRT is 6.5X20X50 side focus and a *much* better scope IMHO.
You can always go up into the real big buck scopes from there, but you start to get a real diminished return for the excess amount of money your spending.
How far and what size target do you want to shoot at? A
human size target at 200M? (You are talking tactical use, right?)Then a "Tactical" scope will probably work. Smaller targets or longer ranges you might want to look at an LRT.
The Leupold Tactical I have is 3.5X10X50 AO,target turrets. The Leupold LRT is 6.5X20X50 side focus and a *much* better scope IMHO.
You can always go up into the real big buck scopes from there, but you start to get a real diminished return for the excess amount of money your spending.
I have a Savage 10FP .308 with a Tasco SS 10x42M, mil-dot reticle. The advantage to this set up is, that if you know the size of your target, you can determine the distance, and therefore the holdover. It is a very accurate and tough set up. I got the scope here:
http://www.swfa.com/
Here is the back door to the same company with some super secret deals:
http://www.riflescopes.com/specials.html
SWFA is a great company.
I would not advise going with a 50mm objective lens; it will require the scope to be mounted too high for 'tactical' purposes.
http://www.swfa.com/
Here is the back door to the same company with some super secret deals:
http://www.riflescopes.com/specials.html
SWFA is a great company.
I would not advise going with a 50mm objective lens; it will require the scope to be mounted too high for 'tactical' purposes.
The downside of that is they must be used on a fixed power.Jamie Young
New member
I'm not too worried about having a fixed power scope. I've consider myself to have graduated up to 500yds with my rifle with my hunting scope. Its a Leupold 3-9x40 I like the scope but I think the Recticle is a little difficult to aim with at 500yds. I am a little frustrated with online sites because they advertise scopes but they don't show the type of recticle they have. What power are Most Tactical Scopes fixed at?
Jamie Young
New member
Three More Questions...
1)What are Target Knobs?
2)I don't see how there are enough Mil-Dots on the scopes to be able to use the Dots if your Shooting 1000yds. I can see how you can use them to judge target distance but If you were to aim 30ft above a target to hit it at 1000yds you wouldn't be able to use the Dots or the Crosshair Right? You just judge distance using Mil-dots and then Aim 30ft above your target right?
I'm looking for a scope that is going to allow me to use some kind of reference points for something like 800yds and 1000yds.
1)What are Target Knobs?
2)I don't see how there are enough Mil-Dots on the scopes to be able to use the Dots if your Shooting 1000yds. I can see how you can use them to judge target distance but If you were to aim 30ft above a target to hit it at 1000yds you wouldn't be able to use the Dots or the Crosshair Right? You just judge distance using Mil-dots and then Aim 30ft above your target right?
I'm looking for a scope that is going to allow me to use some kind of reference points for something like 800yds and 1000yds.
AFAIK, Tactical scopes are usually 10x. Here is more information on the mil-dot reticle
http://www.swfa.com/mildot/index.html
http://www.swfa.com/mildot/index.html
I think you mis-understood my post on the mildots. On the Leupold you only get a correct ranging at , say 8X, even though you have a variable X scope. You then convert the mils to mins and make your come-ups from there. You don't hold over.
Target turrets are the tall knobs that look like a micrometer barrel.
Target turrets are the tall knobs that look like a micrometer barrel.
Charmedlyfe
Moderator
Don't leave out the Nightforce NXS. I got one, and I'm spoiled. I no longer am satisfied with anything less. Illuminated reticle, 1/4min clicks (BDCs generally don't let me use the weights I want....like 175s), great tactile on the knob adjustments, side-focus, AWESOME glass, and the toughest tube made! Best of all, a great warranty (I've never had to use),and products designed from shooter input.
The thing is, what do you want the scope to do? Long range shooting with a BDC limits you to a specific weight and velocity envelope. Target knob adjustments allow freedom of choice. I like 175gr FedGM. This shoots differently at 800yrds than 168gr FedGM.
A variable-power scope gives you the ability to shoot at closer range and observe through the scope at longer ranges. Field Of View (FOV). It determines how much you can see at a given distance. greater FOV allows easier accquisition of moving targets.
look at the different reticles on the market, and pick one you are comfortable with. DON'T be afraid of a little math...and maybe look into shooter aids like the Mildot Master and Slope Doper.
What about shooting conditions? I got my Nightforce for low-light and incliment weather shooting. If you only plan on shooting on sunny days at the range, you can go with a smaller objective (maybe 40mm) and no reticle illumination. If this is for 'duty' use, carefully evaluate the twilight factor of competing scopes. This indicates low-light performance of the scope compared to other, more-or-less equal scopes.
Don't just accept peoples' reccomendations. Investigate the scopes. Determine your uses, then buy the scope that does what YOU want it to do. Don't be afraid to spend a little (or even a lot) more on the scope to get exactly what you want. Better to buy one now, than another one later....
The thing is, what do you want the scope to do? Long range shooting with a BDC limits you to a specific weight and velocity envelope. Target knob adjustments allow freedom of choice. I like 175gr FedGM. This shoots differently at 800yrds than 168gr FedGM.
A variable-power scope gives you the ability to shoot at closer range and observe through the scope at longer ranges. Field Of View (FOV). It determines how much you can see at a given distance. greater FOV allows easier accquisition of moving targets.
look at the different reticles on the market, and pick one you are comfortable with. DON'T be afraid of a little math...and maybe look into shooter aids like the Mildot Master and Slope Doper.
What about shooting conditions? I got my Nightforce for low-light and incliment weather shooting. If you only plan on shooting on sunny days at the range, you can go with a smaller objective (maybe 40mm) and no reticle illumination. If this is for 'duty' use, carefully evaluate the twilight factor of competing scopes. This indicates low-light performance of the scope compared to other, more-or-less equal scopes.
Don't just accept peoples' reccomendations. Investigate the scopes. Determine your uses, then buy the scope that does what YOU want it to do. Don't be afraid to spend a little (or even a lot) more on the scope to get exactly what you want. Better to buy one now, than another one later....
Charmedlyfe
Moderator
OOOPS!!! SPELLING ERROR! INCLIMATE!!!!!! I SAID INCLIMATE!!!
Leupold 6.5-20x50 LRT.
I bought a Leupold 6.5-20x50mm Long Range Target scope and I have been very pleased with it. It has the target knobs that let you easily change your elevation and windage. I got mine from Ultimate Outdoors.
I think you did misunderstand mil dots. A mil dot is used to get a fairly accurate estimation of range. One you know your targets range, using either tested data or a balistics chart, you should know how many "clicks" or Minutes of Angle to adjust your scope up so you can hold the cross hairs dead on a target and hit where your cross hairs point.
My scope adjusts 1/4" at 100 yards for every click on my adjustment knob. What this means is, at 100 yards, my scope is zeroed dead on. When I adjust my target knobs, every click will move my point of impact 1/4" up, down, left, or right. Then at 200 yards the point of impact moves 2/4" because you multiply the orignial 1/4" by 2. At 300 yards every click will move the point of impact 3/4".
For example, with my LRT scope and Rem 700 yesterday, I shot at 300 yards. I knew from previous data that I would need to adjust up 18 clicks. 18 clicks is 18 times 3/4" which equals an adjustment of 13.5 inches at 300 yards. So my bullet drops about 13.5 inches at 300 yards. By raising my crosshairs using my adjustment target knobs, I raise the point of impact that is my zero up 13.5 inches by adjusting 18 clicks up. Then I aim dead on with my target and it should hit right about there not conisdering wind, my error, and numerous other little factors. Take a look.
The #4 group on the board was pretty good at 300 yards. I was aiming at the bottom left 3/4" square. Now considering where my group hit, I might bring my elevation down one more click and use 17 clicks for 300 yards with that bullet. Why? My group hit just above the lower left black square I was using for that group. By coming down one click, my point of impact for those three shots would drop 3/4" and they would be just about right on at 300 yards.
Does this help any? Mil dots are really for range finding. Once you know the range to target, then you adjust your scope using the target knobs to bring the point of impact onto what you are aiming at. I personally go out and shoot all of my loads at 100, 200, 300, and sometimes 600 or 1000 yards so I know what my actual adjustment will be. Then I commit them to memory or print them out on a small speadsheet. Then I know exactly how much to raise my elevation to hit the target.
You can use the mil-dots as hold over after testing them out for quick shots, but usually, if the target is over 300 to 400 yards away and not running, you have the time to make the adjustments instead. And studies have shown that it is almost always more accurate to hold dead on with the cross hairs than trying to "hold over". If you are still confused, let me know and I/we will try to help you more. Once you learn all of this MOA/elevation business, it really is quite fun to play around with. Especially when you have a good quality scope and whenever you adjust from 100 to 400 yards and back and forth and it hits right where you want it to. That is some fun. Good luck.
I bought a Leupold 6.5-20x50mm Long Range Target scope and I have been very pleased with it. It has the target knobs that let you easily change your elevation and windage. I got mine from Ultimate Outdoors.
I think you did misunderstand mil dots. A mil dot is used to get a fairly accurate estimation of range. One you know your targets range, using either tested data or a balistics chart, you should know how many "clicks" or Minutes of Angle to adjust your scope up so you can hold the cross hairs dead on a target and hit where your cross hairs point.
My scope adjusts 1/4" at 100 yards for every click on my adjustment knob. What this means is, at 100 yards, my scope is zeroed dead on. When I adjust my target knobs, every click will move my point of impact 1/4" up, down, left, or right. Then at 200 yards the point of impact moves 2/4" because you multiply the orignial 1/4" by 2. At 300 yards every click will move the point of impact 3/4".
For example, with my LRT scope and Rem 700 yesterday, I shot at 300 yards. I knew from previous data that I would need to adjust up 18 clicks. 18 clicks is 18 times 3/4" which equals an adjustment of 13.5 inches at 300 yards. So my bullet drops about 13.5 inches at 300 yards. By raising my crosshairs using my adjustment target knobs, I raise the point of impact that is my zero up 13.5 inches by adjusting 18 clicks up. Then I aim dead on with my target and it should hit right about there not conisdering wind, my error, and numerous other little factors. Take a look.
The #4 group on the board was pretty good at 300 yards. I was aiming at the bottom left 3/4" square. Now considering where my group hit, I might bring my elevation down one more click and use 17 clicks for 300 yards with that bullet. Why? My group hit just above the lower left black square I was using for that group. By coming down one click, my point of impact for those three shots would drop 3/4" and they would be just about right on at 300 yards.
Does this help any? Mil dots are really for range finding. Once you know the range to target, then you adjust your scope using the target knobs to bring the point of impact onto what you are aiming at. I personally go out and shoot all of my loads at 100, 200, 300, and sometimes 600 or 1000 yards so I know what my actual adjustment will be. Then I commit them to memory or print them out on a small speadsheet. Then I know exactly how much to raise my elevation to hit the target.
You can use the mil-dots as hold over after testing them out for quick shots, but usually, if the target is over 300 to 400 yards away and not running, you have the time to make the adjustments instead. And studies have shown that it is almost always more accurate to hold dead on with the cross hairs than trying to "hold over". If you are still confused, let me know and I/we will try to help you more. Once you learn all of this MOA/elevation business, it really is quite fun to play around with. Especially when you have a good quality scope and whenever you adjust from 100 to 400 yards and back and forth and it hits right where you want it to. That is some fun. Good luck.
Jamie Young
New member
El Rojo you'd make a good teacher!! I understand Mil-dots now. When your talking Elevation do you mean compared to sea-level? If your not I think I just made an Ass out of myself? After you adjust your scope after determining the range of a target you can always just reset your scope to EXACTLY where it was before and still be zeroed in right? I have NO experience with anything but simple scopes and I have never really learned the whole MOA thing. I know what they are but I've never gone out and practiced it. I think it will be something new to do.
What do you know, I am a teacher!
The problem with teaching at school is I teach basic skills to Freshman. Shooting is much more interesting.
Elevation simply refers to how much you elevate your crosshairs in the sight picture when you use the adjustment knob to make positive clicks up. So at 100 yards I want to elevate my point of impact 2". At 100 yards, each click equals 1/4" so I would come up 8 click because 8 times 1/4" equals 2".
Elevation refers to adjusting bullet impact up and down. Windage refers to adjusting bullet impact left and right.
And to let you know further. A Minute of Angle (MOA) refers to 1" at 100 yards. At 200 yards a MOA is 2". 300 yards: 3" = 1 MOA. 400 yards: 4" = 1 MOA. and all the way up to infinity or in most shooting cases 1000 yards: 10" = 1 MOA. So in my 300 yard sample above, I was shooting below 1 MOA for group #4 because my group was about 2" apart. And so we can accurately say I was shooting 2/3 MOA because I had a 2" group when the MOA = 3". I was shooting around a .35" group at 100 yards, so my accuracy could be described as under 1/2 MOA. Meaning I shot under a .5" group.
And yes, you can reset your scope to exactly what you had it at before. Yesterday I shot my 175 grain Match bullets at 100 yards and 300 yards. Then when I was traveling from my shooting area back to the house, I was able to adjust the scope to be on a 200 yards for my Speer 125 grain HP TNT bullets. Tomorrow I am going to go shoot a 1000 yard match and there I will have to adjust up nearly 30 MOA which would be about 120 clicks. That means my bullets drop about 30 MOA x 10" (10" is 1 MOA at 1000 yards) equals 300" or about 25 feet! And when I am done, I will reset the elevation knob back down to my zero and be on at 100 yards again.
My dad thinks I should never ever mess with my windage and elevation knobs. His problem is he is an old timer who doesn't realize when you spend $638 on a scope, it is designed to adjust your windage and elevation numerous times with out there ever being an error. And that is what is so great, I can shoot numerous loads and at numerous ranges, and still be on when I want. When you tinker with this stuff for a while and start to figure it out, it really gets fun.
And here is the pretty lady!
The problem with teaching at school is I teach basic skills to Freshman. Shooting is much more interesting.
Elevation simply refers to how much you elevate your crosshairs in the sight picture when you use the adjustment knob to make positive clicks up. So at 100 yards I want to elevate my point of impact 2". At 100 yards, each click equals 1/4" so I would come up 8 click because 8 times 1/4" equals 2".
Elevation refers to adjusting bullet impact up and down. Windage refers to adjusting bullet impact left and right.
And to let you know further. A Minute of Angle (MOA) refers to 1" at 100 yards. At 200 yards a MOA is 2". 300 yards: 3" = 1 MOA. 400 yards: 4" = 1 MOA. and all the way up to infinity or in most shooting cases 1000 yards: 10" = 1 MOA. So in my 300 yard sample above, I was shooting below 1 MOA for group #4 because my group was about 2" apart. And so we can accurately say I was shooting 2/3 MOA because I had a 2" group when the MOA = 3". I was shooting around a .35" group at 100 yards, so my accuracy could be described as under 1/2 MOA. Meaning I shot under a .5" group.
And yes, you can reset your scope to exactly what you had it at before. Yesterday I shot my 175 grain Match bullets at 100 yards and 300 yards. Then when I was traveling from my shooting area back to the house, I was able to adjust the scope to be on a 200 yards for my Speer 125 grain HP TNT bullets. Tomorrow I am going to go shoot a 1000 yard match and there I will have to adjust up nearly 30 MOA which would be about 120 clicks. That means my bullets drop about 30 MOA x 10" (10" is 1 MOA at 1000 yards) equals 300" or about 25 feet! And when I am done, I will reset the elevation knob back down to my zero and be on at 100 yards again.
My dad thinks I should never ever mess with my windage and elevation knobs. His problem is he is an old timer who doesn't realize when you spend $638 on a scope, it is designed to adjust your windage and elevation numerous times with out there ever being an error. And that is what is so great, I can shoot numerous loads and at numerous ranges, and still be on when I want. When you tinker with this stuff for a while and start to figure it out, it really gets fun.
And here is the pretty lady!
Jamie Young
New member
OK OK So I'll leave an Apple on your desk at the end of the Day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!