Best Standard Pressure 9mm round ??

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Mike H

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Guys,

I've seen postings below detailing the virtues of Federal's 9BP round (superseded by the Hydra Shock) the 115gr Silvertip (still under something of a cloud after Miami) and a host of others. I personally don't use +P because of potential criminal liability (the use of Corbon's 115gr +P will get you 15 years in some states), wear and tear on my gun and follow up shot placement. I like the Golden Sabre in 124 gr, the Hydra shock (135 gr) and the Nyclad - all in standard SAAMI pressure loadings, anyone care to share an opinion as to their preference and convince me otherwise.


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Mike H
 
I like the 9BP for general use. It's pretty accurate, feeds reliably, and seems to cycle very well in semi and full-automatics. Some swear that the 9BP is the standard load that all others should be judged against!

I would recommend that you test fire a 100 rounds of Nyclad, 9BP, silvertip, etc. and see which is the best load for your weapon.
 
Mike:

Don't own a 9 anymore, but when I did, Corbon 115gr +P was the round of choice.

I'm curious...in which states can you "...get 15 years..." for using Corbon 115gr +P ammo? Is it just that particular high performance brand or others as well? Even if you're defending yourself/others in a righteous shooting?

I remember something (I think) about HP rounds being verboten in New Jersey. Maybe other places as well?

Thanks...
Mike
 
Best standard pressure load is the Proload 115 gr hollow point, at least in my Hi Power. Travels 1280 Fps, that's almost +p speed (1300 Fps)in a standard pressure load. Best ammo I have ever shot. Proload has a web site but I don't have the address handy. You can find it from yahoo search engine. If not, let me know and I will get it for you. By the way, I do not work for them, I just shoot their ammunition.
 
Mike,

I don't have specific info on which states prosecute for the use of Corbon's 115 gr 9mm, but I've heard plenty of circumstantial stuff down at my local range that indicates it basically boils down to which creep of a DA happens to be pushing for Governor at that time. The states that take a hard line usually specify any +P or +P+ ammo as well as the supposedly infamous Black Talon, I personally contacted both my local DA's office and local cop shop to check on my own individual states regulations, I would strongly recommend everyone else to do the same. My local gun store owner here in Pa is a stand up guy and he won't carry the Corbon 9mm because he says he has no intention of seeing his customers go to jail on account of ammo he supplied even though it is not banned here. He warns anyone buying +P by way of a true story regarding a DA (in Penn) who pushed for a murder 1 conviction against a private citizen who used his gun in justified self defence against an intruder only to find himself looking at 30 years in the slammer with the dead guys buddies. This is why Federal now market the Personal Defence range of ammo, this name was specifically chosen to help users avoid criminal proceedings because all you are using it for is what it says on the label. Moral of the story - let the cops use +P, if standard pressure 9mm isn't enough, get a .45 or a .357. Did I hear someone say that the Criminal Justice system was on our side, I THINK NOT.

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Mike H
 
Mike:

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I was a little astounded to read your post as I grew up in the South and have spent much of my life (even stateside military assignments) down there. A different mindset, I guess...If someone's using deadly force against you or some other innocent, you can light them up with whatever you want, and no one will care, muchless try to prosecute you. In a larger city, say Atlanta or New Orleans with modern, PC politicos and bureaucrats, that could be a possibility now, however.

Other than hunting ammo for rifles, I remember that the 4.5 years I spent in Germany were "hollowpointless" due to the regulations in that country.

Mike
 
If anyone lives in any of those places that Mike is talking about, vote with your feet! Abandon it and let the thugs and politicians have it.
 
This seem awfully close to a thread I started just a few days ago.

I just love the comments that some individuals make like, "If plus P ammo in 9mm is not enough, use .45 or .357." When are you guys going to learn it is not the caliber that a good defence makes, it is the guy standing behind the gun who has taken the time and effort (and serious bucks) to find a combination of weapon design, reliable HP round, and practice, practice, practice. The audacity that some in this forum have is amazing.

You big daddy .45ACP users look upon us who use 9mm like we are some kind mentally challenged kids who will never have the capability to use the "AWSOME .45". Every week I go to the range and there is always someguy there who thinks he is just the master shooter because he's spent $1500.00+ on some 1911 that needed to be modified extensively to be as reliable as my SIG226.

The proof is in the pudding boys, and I will always be a little bit more weary of the adversary who is dog nuts with a 9mm. But I rarely shake in my boots with some bonehead who can't hit the broadside of a barn with a .45...even when standing inside.

If you choose .45 because you prefer the way it handles, or its just the weapon you cut your teeth on great, you've got no qualms with me. But, if your using the .45 or .357 because you just can't be seen with a puny 9mm, your attitude may just cost you your life someday.

I AM NOT saying the 9mm is superior in any way. What I am saying is this. Doing the math, 9mm is about .36 caliber, the .357 is about the same, and the .45 is only .09 bigger. If you really believe the .09 is going to make that much difference in a general civilian defence senario, you had better do some more thinking. The balistic studies show clearly the 9mm 124gr FMJ and the .45 230gr. FMJ perform about the same. I would use neither.

As far as the 9mm VS. 9mm+p, I personally stick to the standard pressure stuff. I'm sure my 226 would perform just fine, but from a practical point of view I wonder if the extra 150 or so FPS really make a difference when proper shot placement is equal. The accuracy and reliability of the 9BP is also unsurpassed in most weapons. For the gentleman who stated the 9BP is the load that all others are judged is correct...it is. Not because it is some magic bullet, but because it has stood the test of time and has performed very well considering it is just a handgun round. Also, the legal ramifications must be considered. A gung-ho local prosecutor might just have a field day with the +p on your ammo box. It gets costly if you've got to bring in experts like Mas Ayoob to explain to all of the normal folk what +p really means.

The last and least important reason I use standard pressure stuff is cost. I just prchased 500 rounds of Federal 9BP for less than $180.00. The way Cor-Bon and Triton is being priced these days is a little rich for this guy.

I do not fault anybody for there own personal choice. I have respect for the guy who uses a .44mag, and a colt .380. The respect comes from the fact that they come to that package rationally and they use it WELL.

Good shooting!!!

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"By His stripes we are healed..."

PeterGunn


[This message has been edited by PeterGunn (edited September 21, 1999).]
 
Peter:

Good points...some I've made numerous times on this forum myself ref caliber and shot placement. I must say, though, I'm personally not gonna worry about whether or not the local DA is anti-gun or not.

If (God forbid) I'm ever involved in a self-defense shooting, my major concern is surviving the encounter so that I can enjoy life with my wonderful wife and daughter. If some political flunkie wants to take me to task, so be it.

BTW, Ayoob used to have a standard offer to appear free of charge in the trial of any LFI graduate involved in a good shooting who was subsequently pilloried in criminal or civil court. Certainly something to consider when choosing a weapons training school.

Mike
 
I to live in PA and find it amazing that someone would have been prosecuted for using +p ammo. I know pretty many cops and one police chief who has just retired and none of them has ever said +p ammo is a no no for civilians, it is my understanding that is why they have ammo that is restricted to Law Enforcement sales only. I think this matter deserves further looking into.
 
Peter, no caliber wars, please. They don't accomplish anything.

I carry .22WMR, .380ACP, 9mm, or .45ACP, depending on the circumstances (I don't like .40S&W, but I'm thinking about getting a .400 Cor-Bon barrel for my 1911).

Now, back on topic, for standard (not +P) 9mm, I go with Speer Gold Dot 147s or Remington Golden Saber 115s. They both feed well and hit hard. Nothing against the Hydrashok; I just prefer the former. I don't address Cor-Bon here, since it's +P by default.

Concerning legal issues arising from use of +P: If you have to shoot, you're in a world of s*** regardless of whether it's a .22 Short or a .50AE, plinker or premium. Go with what works for you, and don't stress over the potential aftermath. If the DA wants to rip you a new one, he'll find any stupid hook on which to hang the case.

My $0.035 (adjusted for inflation :) ).

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"America needs additional gun laws like a giraffe needs snow tires."
--Rabbi Mermelstein, JPFO

[This message has been edited by Coinneach (edited September 21, 1999).]
 
Coinneach,

It is not my intent to start a "caliber war" with anybody, but it is my intent to stop this holier than thou attitude I find in this forum when it comes to 9mm vs. .45, .357. I too use a plethera of weapons and calibers, each for its own purpose.

If individuals continue to proclaim, unsubstantiated beliefs that the .4whatever is just end all, be all, I will call he on the carpet just as quick as I can type. i will do the same thing to someone who says the same thing about a 9mm, .380.

The point is there is no "best" per se. We all come to a conclusion based on mission, purpose and personal preferences/bias.

If this place is filling up with individuals who cannot take a little criticisim and challangeing as far as their own personal choices goes, we have turned into a bunch of meely mouthed, pasty faced, limp wristed idiots. Half the fun of forums like these is to learn from others and their experiences, debating and arguing about whats "best".

If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. You may disagree with what i say, but you are wrong to say that it is not edifying.

Good shooting!!!

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"By His stripes we are healed..."

PeterGunn
 
I love the way some people who have a bee in their bonnet just get the wrong end of the stick no matter what you say, it's quite the most enjoyable part of being a member here. In case anyone forgot I started this thread with a simple question about the best 9mm standard pressure load stating that I don't use +P because of several reasons, most notably that it could get you into legal hot water. I closed by saying that if 9mm standard isn't enough for anyone then they can use a more powerful caliber such as (whispers carefully) the .45, and suddenly we get the "oh you .45 shooters are all snobs" routine, I mean HELLO, personal agenda alert, never mind the topic, someone typed .45 so let's go into our tirade about 9mm vs. 45, I personally don't like heavier calibers as it happens, but the question was about 9mm standard pressure rounds so can we all get back on topic. By way of reference my last question here specified a choice of 3 9mm handguns and which one you would choose, can you believe that half the replies selected .45's.......oh well, I try, I try

Regards as ever

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Mike H
 
Greetings, all. I've not tried the Pro Load, but it does sound very promising especially for a standard pressure load. Of the rounds I have tested in 9mm, I'd go with either the old Federal 9BP or the 124 gr Nyclad HP. Either have pretty good reps according to Marshall and Sanow. Best.
 
Mike,

If you FEEL the need to express your emotional state, fine, but do it elswhere.

I have no personal agenda here or anywhere. I will state it again, hopefully in more simple terms so that you can understand.

THERE IS LITTLE OR NO DIFFERENCE IN THE ENERGY BETWEEN A 9MM AND A .45.

You cannot say the .45 is more powerful, it is not!!! The .45 is bigger yes, but not necessarily more powerful. If you would read a standardized ballistics table, it think you would probably get it.

I suggest you read my previous posts again. When you do I think you will realize I have no bee in my bonnet, all I am trying to do is keep the "snobbery" in check.

Thanks so much!!


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"By His stripes we are healed..."

PeterGunn
 
Peter,
Chill out. ;)

Mike,
I like the Winchester 115 STHP eventhough it is disliked by many due to the Miami shootout. Feeds well, accurate, good velocity and inexpensive. :)
Hiker
 
Guys,

Thanks for the informative replies (well mostly). I'm surprised at the outcome, the 9BP really is a popular choice and not one mention of the Hydra Shock. One response for the heavy and slow approach with a 147 grain bullet but mostly light and fast with 115's, and mention of the Nyclad which I like in revolvers but still have doubts about in autos as it is basically a coated lead slug. I'm certainly going to take a test load of 9BP's and see how I fare, or maybe I should trade in my P228 and get a powerful gun like a .45 (tick, tick, tick, tick.......)

Regards,

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Mike H
 
BOOM!!!!!! You just love winding up them calibre war time bombs. I do believe all calibres have their place, I love the 9mm and will also try out the 9BP, I am also saving for a .45ACP at this time, not for the fact of "More Power", but because I want one. All calibres have their advantages and disadvantages.
 
Try em all in your gun and see which is the most accurate. If you get into gelatin stats, here's some:

The 115 9BP, 115 Silvertip, 124/147 Golden Saber, 124/147 HS, Pro Load 124 and 135 PDA expand about the same in bare gelatin, the PDA/GS/HS penetrates a little more after going through heavy cloth due to the extra weight. (About 14/.60 compared to 12/.60)

The Gold Dot in the Pro Load goes even deeper, about 20/.55.

How deep do you want to go?

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Magsafes SWAT or AGENT Loads

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"There is no limit to stupidity. Space itself is said to be bounded by its own curvature, but stupidity continues beyond infinity."
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
The Critic formerly known as Kodiac
 
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