Best scopes/rifles for the money?

M

Man_Myth_Mace

Inactive
Hello, Friends,

I am fairly new to firing bolt-action rifles and I need some guidance.

My Intentions:
I would like to work my way up to hitting targets (water jugs/steel targets/etc.) at 1000+ yards with precision. I understand that I don't need the best gear to practice, but if I am going to spend the money, I would rather do it once and have a weapon and optic that I can "grow into".

My current weapon/optic:
I was given a Howa 1500 chambered in .300 win mag (I reload, so it is fairly cheap to shoot), along with a Nikko Striling Nighteater 3-10x scope.

My budget:
I am not a rich man, but I am willing to save up a bit if I need to.

My questions:
-I'm not sure if the Howa 1500 is capable of precision at 1000+ yards, what do you think?
-Which scope would be adequate to reach those ranges?
-In order of most to least important features of a scope, would you mind listing them?
-What else should I consider when choosing a rifle/scope?

Sidenote: I have been seriously considering a Leupold due to the military program they have.

Thanks for all your help, and I apologize if these questions have been asked a million times.

-Mace
 
I suggest you stay with what you have, for a while. Get accustomed to your rifle at the more common 100 to 300 and 400 yard distances, if you have a place to shoot at 400 or so.

It's all about the learning curve, and even with your rig, dead on at 200 yards is three feet of drop or a bit more at 500. A good breeze can move a bullet around a couple of feet.

I have yet to find a rifle that I could not do a bit of tweaking and with some load development, shoot tight groups.

I know from experience that one can shoot within one minute of angle (one MOA) at 500 yards with scopes of 9X and 10X.

I also suggest that after you locate a 1,000 yard range that you visit and watch while practiced shooters "do their thing". Ask questions to help you make those various future decisions about equipment.

As far as actual advice? "Don't be in a hurry." :)
 
Practice with what you have right now, but figure out how much you want to spend on a scope. If it's in the $500-700 range I'd check out the SWFA scopes. You really need a good repeatable scope for precision shooting and I think the SWFA's are a good budget scope that fits the bill.
 
The Howa is a good rifle that could be built upon for your needs. They are heavier than I like for a hunting rifle, but the weight will be a plus for your needs. There are ample aftermarket stocks, barrels, triggers etc. that you could replace as your budget and skills improve. Probably more options for Remington or Savage, but the Howa rifles are good options with enough aftermarket support.

Leupold makes excellent scopes. I would highly recommend them on a hunting rifle. There may be better choices for long range precision shooting however.
 
I don't own a Howa 1500, but from what I've read they're a solid value, and deliver decent accuracy.

If it will shoot sub-minute, that's "good enough" to bang steel at 1000. Not going to win you any competitions, but it'll work. Your understanding of external ballistics- wind calls- will be far more important in making hits than the inherent accuracy of the rifle. I can bang a 10" plate at 600 yards as fast as I can rack the bolt- but nary a hit on a plate twice as large at 1000. Those last 400 yards are very challenging- and it's not because of the rifle.

My question would be- how accurate are you with the .300 WM? It's one of the more "capable" long-range calibers- but rough on the shoulder. Most guys I've seen shooting them (sans brake) are done after 30 or 40 rounds.

For me, it's all about the practice of sending lead downrange- 100 rounds per trip at a minimum. Practice, Practice..

I'd go with one of the lighter recoil calibers popular for 1000- like the .260, 6.5 Creedmore, 7mm-08 (mine), or any of the other 6.5's or 7mm choices that'll be easier on the shoulder than the .300 WM. JMO...
 
I have yet to find a rifle that I could not do a bit of tweaking and with some load development, shoot tight groups. Art hit it there.


The rifle you have now is good for what you want to do as tobnpr say's , but why beat your shoulder up. look at 308, 6br, 6.5 anything. As for scope,,I would go no smaller tha 32 power,but that's just me. You want to see your target at 1000 yards not block it with the cross hairs :D.

How it that scope you have now?. I see them on the Howa's and they appear to be ok. does it track good?.
 
Here is my 300-1000 yard setup. It is a Remmy 700 action customized, trued and bluprinted. The Kreiger 24" barrel was lapped. The muzzle brake is a custom tri-fin model my gunsmith made after a design he uses. It has a Manners T5-A chassis, (not pictured) a newly installed Harris bipod with LaRue mount, Near scope base with NightForce 34mm lightweight rings and NightForce ATACR. I was on the fence about the NightForce and a Premier reticles scope. I gave the NightForce a chance and love it. It is a mil/mil setup. I have spent a lot of money in this 300WM. The good part is you can get the accuracy without spending nearly as much. Fist pic is the rifle the next is its (3-shot)group at 100 yards, the third is (3 shots) at 302 yards.
IMG_3176.jpg


Group.jpg


Group4.jpg

This group is just about an inch at 302yards off of the bipod and a rear bag. The rifle will out shoot my skills 2-1. I have seen budget rifles shoot just as good. It takes time to work a load that the rifle likes, but once found it is well worth it.
 
This is as good as it gets for an inexpensive scope:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/129...-reticle-matte
Click to expand...

Look again:
Status: Not available - One time run

If I was going to try to shoot 1000 yards, I would look at a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 scope. $429 and features bright, clear optics and a 30mm tube, is available with a Mil-Dot reticle. The additional adjustment provided by the 30mm tube would come in handy. The .300 Win Mag is an excellent cartridge for that type of target shooting, provided the recoil isn't more than you can handle.
 
I believe that your Howa, 300WM, is as suitable for 1000yd shooting as any other sporter type rifle in it's category.

I own a Vanguard, 300WBY, the Vanguards come with a factory target, mine was under .7". I have reloaded for magnum rifles since 1976, and can endure a fair amount of recoil, but have only been able to come close. My 15YO son, all 130lbs of him, would shoot 20 rds w/o complaint and as much as I hate to admit it was more consistently accurate than me.

Sporter type rifles are really more for hunting, in mag chamberings. Sporter barrels will heat up quick, just as your getting hot, so is it. I will carry rubbing alcohol, and rub down the barrel, between groups, inside and out, it cools much quicker than water, and will not rust steel, like water. Barrel heat will absolutely affect accuracy, rapidly, in a light barrel.

My solution was to get a varmint type rifle, Cooper MDL22 VMT, in 6.5-284, 26" , 1/8. Maybe kind of steep for many, but Savage Makes a tach/varmint conture, a $1000 less, these rifles are in different realm of accuracy altogether. The 6.5-284 is a virtual ballistic twin of my 300WBY. 50gr RL22, vs almost 90gr for the Weatherby. The Weatherby will beat the snot out you, unless you cheat.

As far as optics get the best you can. I didn't go overboard this time, I put a Vortex Viper PST 6.5x24, FFP, Zero stop. Mil-Mil, ect. It was still a $1000 scope though. I have Nikon Monarchs on my Weatherby's. These are hunting optics though, med variables 3x9, 4-12. Some think you need 20x for 1000yd, but I haven't made it there yet, am still testing bullets and powders. I like the Vortex and I can see no real difference between them optically, but my eyes aren't so great anymore. I used Weaver scopes way back when and still hear good things about them. Get one with a good warranty, and good luck.

I think your Howa is as suitable as any other modern mass produced consumer product, in its category. Go shoot it and always look for signs of excessive pressure.
 
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Howa's are solid rifles, and 300WM is about as good a cartridge as you will get.

Dont know anything about the nikko sterling scopes though.
 
.300 win mag (I reload, so it is fairly cheap to shoot), along with a Nikko Striling Nighteater 3-10x scope.
Click to expand...

How is that Nikko Striling holding up in a 300 Win Mag? It is a relatively cheap scope, I would be impressed if it holds up in a 300 mag, but you never know!
 
First, find out when and where F Class matches are held in your area, then go shoot. Don't worry about your gear.

I recommend getting a couple 250 count boxes of Nosler Custom Competition
190gr HPBT bullets to feed that Howa of yours. Bart B. claims IMR 4350 has set more accuracy records than any other powder in the 300 Win Mag, and I have no reason to doubt him, although I'd give H4350 a shot first.

Use the Nikko Sterling until it breaks or until you can afford a used Leupold VX-III LR. You don't need a mildot reticle for target shooting, so pick up a used Loopy in 6.5-20x50 or 8.5-25x50. You don't need the extra top end magnification, but it can help. A lot of the better F Class shooters are using 30 to 36x top magnification for the 1k shoots.

Then, once you shoot out your barrel, get your action blue printed, and have a 26" Krieger 5R 11.25" twist installed.

Of course if you keep shooting F Class, you'll find someone who is parting with a sweet deal of a rifle/scope at some time, so it is a good way to upgrade.

Jimro
 
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