Best recipes for the .30 Carbine Blackhawk

J

jski

New member
Those of you who reload the .30 Carbine round for the Blackhawk, care to share your favorite recipes for your Blackhawk? Powder? Charge weight(s) for a given powder? Bullet(s)? Primers? Even cases?
For me it's:
  1. 115 gr. cast (Montana Bullet Works - Linotype) bullets,
  2. ~15 gr. of Hodgdon's H110,
  3. CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers,
  4. Starline brass.

Problem is, this is an excellent M1 Carbine load but not a great .30 Carbine Blackhawk load. I believe H110 was originally developed for the 18" barrel M1 Carbine?
 
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I recently bought 3 lbs of Ramshot True Blue for my .45 Colt and was looking at Western Powders data sheet for the .30 Carbine. Nothing. It has other Western Powders but not True Blue.

So I went to my fallback, I looked up True Blue loads for the .357. As best as I can determine, a reasonable charge for the .30 Carbine would be ~10 gr. That's using my 115 gr. Linotype bullets.

Anyone with True Blue experience?

BTW, True Blue's my new "universal" powder in lieu of Unique. Meters much better for small weights.
 
You have to work up the load for your revolver. Every firearm shoots all ammo differently.
The Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual has .30 Carbine data. Mind you, it's no different that regular .30 Carbine data.
You do not require magnum primers for .30 Carbine or H110. Regular small rifle primers will be fine.
This is out of my Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual. No cast 115, but the 120 will be close enough. It's not exactly pretty though. Got squished together by the formatting. The Win 296 loads are max loads too.

93 grain MC 1.595" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
SR4759 9.5 948 12.5 1216
IMR4227 10.0 1076 15.0 1491
Blue Dot 6.5 922 8.5 1284
2400 9.5 1078 12.5 1390
Win 296 15.0 1460 (Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 10.0 1176 15.5 1456
AL-8 8.5 1227 12.0 1510

100 grain Speer 1.600" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 9.5 1147 12.5 1412
SR4759 9.0 918 12.0(c) 1298
IMR4227 10.0 1112 15.0(c) 1438
630 8.5 1115 12.0 1414
H110 10.0 1124 14.5 1416

110 grain HP 1.660" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 10.0 1161 12.0 1348
SR4759 9.0 851 12.0(c) 1172
IMR4227 11.0 1188 14.0 1377
Win296 14.5 1428(Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 9.5 1054 14.0 1369

120 grain cast w. gas check 1.610" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
Unique 5.0 1138 6.3 1335
Blue Dot 6.5 1066 8.8 1339
2400 10.8 1236 12.3(c) 1436
SR7625 4.6 1027 5.6 1162
SR4756 5.5 1050 6.5 1220
IMR4227 11.5 1169 13.3(c) 1388
Win296 13.5 1415(Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 10.0 1055 13.5 1358
AL-8 9.5 1239 11.0(c) 1408

123 grain cast w. gas check 1.610" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
Unique 5.0 1017 6.3 1316
Blue Dot 6.5 997 8.8 1290
2400 10.8 1271 12.3(c) 1445
SR4756 5.1 923 6.1 1172
IMR4227 11.0 1124 13.1(c) 1342
Win296 13.5 1431 (Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 10.0 1037 13.5 1420
AL-8 9.2 1196 10.8(c) 1384

130 Grain cast 1.680" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
Unique 4.9 1064 6.1 1270
Blue Dot 6.3 971 8.2 1249
2400 10.5 1282 12.0(c) 1414
SR4756 5.0 1011 6.0 1182
IMR4227 10.6 1116 12.7(c) 1387
Win296 12.5 1356 (Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 9.0 979 12.5 1350
AL-8 9.0 1225 10.4(c) 1346

'c' = compressed load.
 
T.O'Heir,

I've adopted Ramshot's True Blue as my "universal" powder. Unique just meters horribly with those big flat flakes on small weights (<10 gr.).

I'm looking for something with a faster burn rate than H110. It still amazes me that when i ask for reload recommendations the standard fair is H110 and its ilk which was intended for the 18" barrel M1 Carbine. And then you get all the critiques of the .30 Carbine Blackhawk as fire breathing and barking louder than everything else. (My .357 Blackhawk is louder!)

That's why I'm looking at True Blue which is decidedly faster burning. There's Western Powders data for the .30 Carbine but not for True Blue.

Now the .30 Carbine cartridge is somewhere between the .327 and .357 Mags. So, based on reloading data for True Blue for those 2 cartridges, I'm thinking ~10 gr. of True Blue for the .30 Carbine Blackhawk.
 
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The .30 Carbine cartridge is somewhere between the .327 and .357 Magnums. So when I try something for which there's no load data, I cut the difference in half.

327 FEDERAL MAGNUM
Barrel: 5” ¦ Twist: 1-16” ¦ Primer: WIN WSP ¦ Bullet Diameter: 0.312”
Case: FED ¦ Max Case Length: 1.200” ¦ Trim Length: 1.190”
RAMSHOT TRUE BLUE
115 (L) LC FP 6.3 1,209 7.0 1,343 41,330 1.500

357 MAGNUM
Barrel: 6” ¦ Twist: 1-18.75” ¦ Primer: WIN WSPM ¦ Bullet Diameter: 0.357”
Case: WIN ¦ Max Case Length: 1.290 “ ¦ Trim Length: 1.280”
RAMSHOT TRUE BLUE
110 HDY XTP 11.3 1,475 12.5 1,639 33,160 1.570
125 HDY XTP 10.4 1,325 11.5 1,472 30,750 1.580

So for my 115 gr. GC, Linotype bullets the answer's somewhere between 7.0 and ~12.5 gr. of True Blue.
 
T. O'Heir said:
You have to work up the load for your revolver. Every firearm shoots all ammo differently.
The Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual has .30 Carbine data. Mind you, it's no different that regular .30 Carbine data.
You do not require magnum primers for .30 Carbine or H110. Regular small rifle primers will be fine.
This is out of my Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual. No cast 115, but the 120 will be close enough. It's not exactly pretty though. Got squished together by the formatting. The Win 296 loads are max loads too.

93 grain MC 1.595" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
SR4759 9.5 948 12.5 1216
IMR4227 10.0 1076 15.0 1491
Blue Dot 6.5 922 8.5 1284
2400 9.5 1078 12.5 1390
Win 296 15.0 1460 (Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 10.0 1176 15.5 1456
AL-8 8.5 1227 12.0 1510

100 grain Speer 1.600" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 9.5 1147 12.5 1412
SR4759 9.0 918 12.0(c) 1298
IMR4227 10.0 1112 15.0(c) 1438
630 8.5 1115 12.0 1414
H110 10.0 1124 14.5 1416

110 grain HP 1.660" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
2400 10.0 1161 12.0 1348
SR4759 9.0 851 12.0(c) 1172
IMR4227 11.0 1188 14.0 1377
Win296 14.5 1428(Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 9.5 1054 14.0 1369

120 grain cast w. gas check 1.610" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
Unique 5.0 1138 6.3 1335
Blue Dot 6.5 1066 8.8 1339
2400 10.8 1236 12.3(c) 1436
SR7625 4.6 1027 5.6 1162
SR4756 5.5 1050 6.5 1220
IMR4227 11.5 1169 13.3(c) 1388
Win296 13.5 1415(Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 10.0 1055 13.5 1358
AL-8 9.5 1239 11.0(c) 1408

123 grain cast w. gas check 1.610" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
Unique 5.0 1017 6.3 1316
Blue Dot 6.5 997 8.8 1290
2400 10.8 1271 12.3(c) 1445
SR4756 5.1 923 6.1 1172
IMR4227 11.0 1124 13.1(c) 1342
Win296 13.5 1431 (Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 10.0 1037 13.5 1420
AL-8 9.2 1196 10.8(c) 1384

130 Grain cast 1.680" OAL
Powder Start Vel Max Vel
Unique 4.9 1064 6.1 1270
Blue Dot 6.3 971 8.2 1249
2400 10.5 1282 12.0(c) 1414
SR4756 5.0 1011 6.0 1182
IMR4227 10.6 1116 12.7(c) 1387
Win296 12.5 1356 (Reduced load, not recommended by Winchester)
H110 9.0 979 12.5 1350
AL-8 9.0 1225 10.4(c) 1346

'c' = compressed load.
Click to expand...
Just wondering if the loads for 30 carbine ...... 110 gr HP bullet using 2400 @ 10.0 gr producing 1161 fps to 12.0 gr producing 1358 fps would be enough to cycle the action in a M1 Carbine ? I believe the commercial ammo is about 1900 fps.
 
All the commercial ammo promises 2000 fps but, from what I've read, few produce it. Most are around 1950 fps.

But in my case I'm looking for a pistol load. Something faster burning than the perennial H110 even tho H110 is popular in pistols, .357, .41, & .44 mags in particular. Even the .454 Casull.

That's why I'm trying to come up with a True Blue load for my Blackhawk using the 115 gr. Linotype bullets. Something that's completely spent after the bullet has traveled the length of the barrel.
 
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I cast my own .30 Carbine bullets out of linotype, and they come in weighing at 105 grain. My load is 12.5 grains of 2400, which functions perfectly in my Inland.

Don
 
First, a great job by T. O'Heir in compiling the load data for the 30 carbine. Very helpful. I'm thinking of purchasing a M1 Carbine and would be hand loading the cartridges using 2400. I'm very experienced in loading hand gun ammo but have never loaded for a rifle. From what I've read, it is very similar to hand gun rounds with the exception of having to lube the cases and trim after every shooting. I usually try to develop loads that are accurate, cycle the action reliably and are as low as possible to achieve the above. No sense in added wear and tear on the firearm or me. I realize that every firearm shoots differently, but would be interested in your experience using 2400 with a 110 gr bullet at low power levels. Also interested in crono FPS data for various loads.
 
stephensackro,

If you're using 110gr jacketed bullets in a M1 Carbine, I would use 4227 rather than 2400. Much better suited to jacketed bullets.

Don
 
"...try something for which there's no load data..." DO NOT MAKE UP YOUR OWN DATA. It's extremely unsafe. Contact the powder maker and ask about data.
"...wondering if the loads for .30 Carbine..." Thanks, but I didn't compile it. The data is right out of my Lyman Pistol and Revolver manual(forget what year. Not recent though.) It's handgun data, not Carbine data. Haven't ever seen a 93 grain jacketed bullet myself.
However, when .30 Carbine handguns(Blackhawks and AMT Hardballers.) first came out long ago, there was no .30 Carbine data or ammo loaded for handguns. Shooters used the same ammo, like milsurp, for their handguns they used in their long guns. There was no hand gun ammo.
Anyway, the Carbine out of a handgun is an excrement hot magnum round. Same data on Hodgdon's site for rifle or pistol. Different velocities due to barrel lengths used in their testing.
"...pro's of using 4227 over 2400..." IMR4227, that's not the same as the H or any other 4227, is great for jacketed bullets(been using it for eons myself with 110 HP's and FMJ's.). 2400 is more for cast bullets. It's about velocity. Too fast with a cast bullet and you'll lead your barrel.
 
Of course you guys are talking about pushing a bullet thru 18" of barrel. I'm talking about a 7 1/2" barrel. Very different.
 
Of course you guys are talking about pushing a bullet thru 18" of barrel. I'm talking about a 7 1/2" barrel. Very different.
Click to expand...

Not really. While your velocity will be lower, you will benefit just as much by having your pressure be lower with 4227 than with 2400.

Don
 
The two powders I use are AA9 and 2400, (2400 most of the time) useing all gi brass and that's for hand guns , (super black hawk , auto mag 3 , m1 inforcer pistol and tc contender G1 7 inch barrel & m1 carbine rifles. I learned from my dad, who was a usaf small arms instructor from the 60's to 86 . He said 2400 ran the best in the carbine at the time. We run with 110 jk slugs in everything. I did pass on the blackhawk for the auto mag 3,(brother got the hawk), because sometimes it was hard to eject the rounds out of the blackhawk. Other family members had the same issue with there 1st year hawks too. And yes with all 4 pistols you get nice fireballs out of them with mid range loads!!! AA9 11.9g -13.max fps 1805 -1935 max lyman 49th load info
speer load info almost the same, 11.6-12.7 max
 
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"...Of course you guys are..." Perhaps you should read the posts again. The only difference between a 7.5" barrel and an 18" barrel is the velocities. Pressures are the same.
And making up your own data based on totally different cartridges is exceedingly unsafe.
 
T. O'Heir,

1) No difference between a 7 1/2" barrel and a 18" barrel? I would think you would look to a faster burning powder for the barrel that's less than 1/2 the length of the other. How many times have I read and heard about the horrendous report and flash from the .30 Carbine Blackhawk because it's using rifle ammo?

2) "making up your own data"? No, making a reasonable (I believe) interpolation. How would you proceed?

BTW, I don't believe lead fouling will be a problem. I'm using GC, Linotype cast bullets which have never been a problem when pushing them with stiff loads using H110.
 
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Other than the regular rifle data, I've used 6.0gr Unique under 115gr cast.
I have messed around with jackets 125 grain flat points as well with decent results. But google "Paco’s Long Range Load For the .30 Carbine Blackhawk" if you really want to go outside the box. I love the 30 carbine Blackhawk, lots of noise and boom with mild recoil and accurate to boot.
 
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