Best Prarie dog town magnification?

R

rms65

New member
I have a Tikka 223 Varmint that I'm looking to rescope. I currently have a Nikon Prostaff 5 3.5-14x40 and mostly use it to shoot paper out to 200yds. I have used it to shoot woodchucks out to 170yds and 4" steel plates at 300yds. Now I'm looking to book a Prarie dog trip next summer. I have heard shots over 300 are common and can sometimes go upto 500 yds. I'm wondering how much magnification is necessary / recommended for such hunting. The scopes I'm looking at come in 3-15x44 and 5-25x50.
Thanks
 
I would go with the 5x25 or similar power scope due to the range(s) but it really boils down to personal preference. I have not so good eyesight, so I prefer the higher power scopes to make it a bit easier to see targets at the longer ranges. I was on a PD shoot last June, and using a couple 20x & 25x scopes at 500+ yds, the little critters were small and difficult to see for me.

My longest kill was ~505 yds with a 223, it just punched a hole thru it and fell over dead. No red mist at that range. Put some different size water bottles at different ranges and that may help you determine what your scope power preference is. Some prefer the 12-16x range for shooting due to mirage and comfort in general.
 
yes for me i want all i can get,,,if i were to pick then for what you are saying the 5-25,,,,,i would want more

it the old saying

"i would rather have it and not need it ,,,than need it and not have it"

for me i think maybe an 8-32,,,,good glass,,,,,you do not have to use the high magnification all the time,,,thats why it is adjustable,,,,,,but if a condition or situation comes up you can,,,, because it is there,,,if you dont have it and you need it ,,,well,,,,you either pass,,,or guess,,,,,as bad as these little guys mess things up they still deserve better than a guess on the shooters behalf

for most things out to 300 for me 10x is plenty,,,for small targets like PD's,,,maybe a little more

just my .02

ocharry
 
jpx2rk said:
I would go with the 5x25 or similar power scope due to the range(s) but it really boils down to personal preference. I have not so good eyesight, so I prefer the higher power scopes to make it a bit easier to see targets at the longer ranges. I was on a PD shoot last June, and using a couple 20x & 25x scopes at 500+ yds, the little critters were small and difficult to see for me.

My longest kill was ~505 yds with a 223, it just punched a hole thru it and fell over dead. No red mist at that range. Put some different size water bottles at different ranges and that may help you determine what your scope power preference is. Some prefer the 12-16x range for shooting due to mirage and comfort in general.
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I wish I could duplicate the conditions but the furthest I can shoot here is 200 am they only allow paper targets.
 
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for most things out to 300 for me 10x is plenty,,,for small targets like PD's,,,maybe a little more/QUOTE]

Different strokes,different folks.

Some like "more than enough" magnification. That's OK,for them.

I prefer to make a "balanced creation" Its a 223 Tikka rifle. I'd think if that 14X Nikon has good optical qualities,the scope you have should be good.

The fixed 6X x42 Leupold on my 257 does 250 yds or so just fine on PDs.

I watched my bro hit a pd first shot lasered just over 500 using an AR-10T in 308 with the military type Leupold fixed 10X M-1 longrange 30 mm tube,40 mm objective.

The highest magnification scope I own is a Leupold 30 mm tube 50 mm obj 4.5 to 14 Long Range. I can see the orange diamond sight in targets just fine at a lasered 1100 yds.

Some folks want to see the ears wiggle and the fly n the pd's head,I guess. That's OK,I guess.

I don't know the PD town you will be shooting.In my general experience with a 223,most shots will be not a whole lot more than 300 yds.The AR I have popped the most pds with has a Leupold 2.5 to 8X mil dot on it.Its not excess,but it does fine 300 yds plus,and I can make a shot farther.

I think the biggest scope I'd put on a 223 might be a Leupold 4.5 to 14 x 40 mm with the Varmint reticle....but you have a 14 X Nikon.

I generally don't gear up for that 1% or 2% "maybe" shot with "bigger" and "More" If I have a good,more trim rifle for the 98% shot, I'm fine.


If you want to focus on 500 yd pds, something like a .243 or 6.5 Creedmoor might be a good tool. I still woud not get too crazy with magnification.
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Whatever scope you use, clarity needs to be really good. Scopes that get a little fuzzy at longer ranges make prairie dog shooting more difficult. Depending on the vegetation and time of year, the little critters can be difficult to discern from clumps of grass or burrowing owls or clods on top of prairie dog mounds. Burrowing owls are migratory and as such, protected.
 
Depending on how hot it is and mirage the higher the mag the more you magnify atmospheric conditions. In my experience I've never shot above 9X when hunting or shooting long distance at deer or elk over 300 yards and my scope is a 16X. Based on my scope of 4-16x42 16X should be sufficient especially if you spend more than the $500 I spent on mine and maybe a larger objective like 50.
 
When I lived in California, I hunted ground squirrels frequently. Started out with my deer rifle, but I had a hankerin for a 22-250, so I got a Mark X action and started building myself one. My first scope was a 4X Weaver K4 (super fine crosshairs), and we shot them out to 400 to 500ish yds. I replaced the scope with a Weaver 2-7X (also fine crosshairs) and we shot ground squirrels out to 500+ yds. Then I thought I would move up to a Leupold 6.5-20X (duplex reticle) and did not like it because of the heavier crosshairs and how much they cover at longer ranges. I eventually took it off and replaced it with a Leupold 4.5-14X (fine crosshairs) and that was the best. Plenty of magnification and the crosshairs don't cover a small target even at 400 yds.

You may find you want more magnification, but I suggest you buy the finest crosshairs you can find.
 
Standard answer: "It depends."

I'll spare you the rundown of everything that I've used on Sod Poodles, and how each firearm was configured and used.

Bottom line, for me: The most magnification I've had available was 20x. I only ever used it once, and that was just to survey the damage, after the fact, at about 225 yards.
99% of my prairie dog shooting has been done between three and ten power (3-10x), with the majority of that still falling between 4x and 6x.

If you can see it, you can shoot it. More magnification just means your crosshairs wander farther while steadying the rifle. Less magnification (usually) means a better field of view. (So when your target jumps down its hole or turns into red mist, you already know where the next victim is at. :D)

Don't forget that magnification does nothing for the wind. And sod poodles generally live in windy places.
If you can't shoot in the wind, magnification won't help. You'll just get an enhanced view of your misses.
 
I would have to agree with Scorch, having shot ground squirrels in Ca when I visited my brother, he let me use his 22-250 with a leupold that I believe had a top end magnification of 25x, tried that a couple shots and turned it down to 15x too hard to find the little critters with the smaller field of view with the 25x..Just my .02 cents..
 
Keep in mind that you must know the ballistics of the .223 to even think about 500 yards. That'll depend a lot on what bullet and load you're using. The rifling twist and barrel length your Tikka has will matter, but think in terms of heavy for calibre bullets for long range.
Sighted in at 200 yards, a 55 grain V-Max bullet with 3300 FPS MV will drop ~ 55.1" at 500. A 62 grain with 3025 FPS MV will drop ~ 66.4" at 500. Both are close to ~ 8" drop at 300.
And the higher the magnification, the smaller the FOV(Field Of View) at the distances. Ground rats are wee tiny critters too.
"...3-15x44..." That's virtually identical to your Nikon. Your Nikon is fine for what you're doing just the way it is though.
The 5-25x50 will probably require higher rings. And weigh more.
 
T. O'Heir said:
Keep in mind that you must know the ballistics of the .223 to even think about 500 yards. That'll depend a lot on what bullet and load you're using. The rifling twist and barrel length your Tikka has will matter, but think in terms of heavy for calibre bullets for long range.
Sighted in at 200 yards, a 55 grain V-Max bullet with 3300 FPS MV will drop ~ 55.1" at 500. A 62 grain with 3025 FPS MV will drop ~ 66.4" at 500. Both are close to ~ 8" drop at 300.
And the higher the magnification, the smaller the FOV(Field Of View) at the distances. Ground rats are wee tiny critters too.
"...3-15x44..." That's virtually identical to your Nikon. Your Nikon is fine for what you're doing just the way it is though.
The 5-25x50 will probably require higher rings. And weigh more.
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Thanks. I'm not really happy with the Nikon clarity. I'm looking at a vortex viper pst gen 2 to get a finer reticle and better glass. The general consensus is the 3-15x44 has a little better glass than the same scope in 5-25x50. I'm leaning on the 3-15x44 but I don't want to get it if the higher magnification of the 5-25x50 is necessary for p-dogs. It seems most people don't need that much magnification. I realize that 223 is pretty much a 300 yard cartridge and anything past that is a hail Mary (for most people), but hey hail Mary's are fun. For the record my Tikka is the Varmint model it has a 24" 1:8 barrel. The heavier stuff shoots well but they're not Varmint tip rounds. I'd probably just be shooting regular 55gr vmax at p-dogs.
 
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I've used a variety of magnifications for p-dogs over the last 12 years or so (Ruger SR556E), including 3x9, 2.5x10, 3x12, 4x16, and most recently 6x20 (almost all Vortex diamondbacks). I've hit dozens (hundreds probably) of p-dogs beyond 400 yds using 3x12 and 4x16 mag scopes. It's easier to aim at 400+ yd dogs using higher mag, generally speaking. Call it more room for error.

I could see well enough to shoot at p-dogs at about 500 yds with the 4x16, not so much beyond 600 yds. Which was fine, because the rifle wasn't really precise enough at 600+ (or me).

Of course, the size of the prairie dog makes some difference as well. Lately we've been seeing most of the p-dogs around here at no longer than 8-9 inches, maybe 2.5-3 inches across the belly. A few years ago we saw a lot of dogs at 13-15 inches long and 4-5 inches across; obviously makes for easier shooting.

All that said, I agree with an earlier poster; clarity is the primary factor. Where we shoot there's a lot of cacti/brush/etc. for them to hide in so you're often looking for a back or a butt or an eye out there. A good scope will show you their little sides moving as they breathe or the bat of their eyelids, making it easier to pick them out of all the ground clutter.
 
The 5-25x50 will probably require higher rings.
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This is an important point.If your rngs are too tall,you will have a blacked out scope when your face rests on the stock. The whole package has to work together.

typically PD shooting s done in pretty good light. At some point the relationship betwee power and objective lense size is an issue. Divide the Obj lense dia by the power of the scope . That will give you exit pupil size . A 40 mm scope 10X will have a 4mm exit pupil. That's OK n good light. Your eye pupil will open to 7mm in low light. Notice 7x50 mm binocs for night/marine use. Note 7x35 bnocs for most daylight use.

Even n good light,I notce image quality can deteriorate once you get below 3mm or 2,5 mm exit pupil.


My 77 mm objective Kowa spotting scope has a 20-60 zoom. In good light,I generally can actualy see the best resolution someplace around 40 X That's a bit less than 2 mm exit pupil. That's about as small as the eye pupil will constrict.It probaby helps this scope has a fluorite crystal objective lense and good coatings.

Someone will disagree,but IMO,any magnification /objective lense combo that gives less than 2mm exit pupil does not really help you see better,even in the best light. You'll note the old Leupold 12 X fixed power varmint scope is a 40 mm or 42 mm obj. Roughly 3mm + exit pupil. Balanced for good light shooting. The fixed 6X by 42 mm scope,with 7mm exit pupil,gathers as much light as your 7mm eye pupil.


Balance that with the objective lense your stock fit /comb height/ ring height works out
 
I've done two prairie dog shoots. I never had to shoot beyond 300 yards, given the number of dens and the ease of moving on after working an area.

First shoot was with a bolt .223; 3-9x40 Leupold. Second shoot was with a .243; 2-7x32 Leupold. Both Vari-X IIs.

No trouble making hits.

Were I to build a dedicated prairie dog rifle, odds are I'd go with a 4-14x40. Plenty good for common field of view at 4X; plenty of magnification for little critters on out to 500 yards or thereabouts.
 
Scope turrets

I realize that 223 is pretty much a 300 yard cartridge and anything past that is a hail Mary (for most people), but hey hail Mary's are fun.
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If you have a scope with spring loaded zero reset turrets and the adjustments are consistent and accurate, the 223 becomes very usable beyond 300 yards. If the rifle will shoot 53 gr. V-max bullets around 3300 fps, you can extend out to 400 or more. The Vortex you mentioned would work just fine IMO. As well, if you can obtain wind speed several ballistics programs can put you in the ballpark for windage. Makes those "hail Marys" a lot more fun, and more apt to hit the target. Need a good rangefinder. Wind meter helps. Have a great time on your prairie dog shoot!
 
Rangerrich99 said:
I've used a variety of magnifications for p-dogs over the last 12 years or so (Ruger SR556E), including 3x9, 2.5x10, 3x12, 4x16, and most recently 6x20 (almost all Vortex diamondbacks). I've hit dozens (hundreds probably) of p-dogs beyond 400 yds using 3x12 and 4x16 mag scopes. It's easier to aim at 400+ yd dogs using higher mag, generally speaking. Call it more room for error.

I could see well enough to shoot at p-dogs at about 500 yds with the 4x16, not so much beyond 600 yds. Which was fine, because the rifle wasn't really precise enough at 600+ (or me).

Of course, the size of the prairie dog makes some difference as well. Lately we've been seeing most of the p-dogs around here at no longer than 8-9 inches, maybe 2.5-3 inches across the belly. A few years ago we saw a lot of dogs at 13-15 inches long and 4-5 inches across; obviously makes for easier shooting.

All that said, I agree with an earlier poster; clarity is the primary factor. Where we shoot there's a lot of cacti/brush/etc. for them to hide in so you're often looking for a back or a butt or an eye out there. A good scope will show you their little sides moving as they breathe or the bat of their eyelids, making it easier to pick them out of all the ground clutter.
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Funny that you mentioned the capabilities of your rifle beyond a certain distance. My brother last year went on a prairie dog hunt and wanted a "POWERFUL" scope,(his words) for the hunt so that he could shoot at 500 yards or further if need be. I told him he lacked the experience at shooting beyond that. So we made a bet to put a soda can at 400 yards out and hit it. I gave him 3 chances and never got a hit. First the cross hairs covered the can, secondly he just couldn't shoot. I than shot my RRA with 75 grain Hornady bullets with a Sightron Big Sky that has very fine crosshair and a target dot and hit on the first shot, (got lucky) which proved my point. But I know my loads do sub moa 5 shot groups at 200 yards all day long and I have taken it out to 600 yards. Long story short he borrowed my RRA and a couple of hundred rounds of my custom loads.
 
I've only shot prairie dogs a few times but 16x is the max I used. We got some 100-200 yard shots early in the morning and 300-400 was more common after the dogs got weary. We'd took some 500-600 yard shots just for grins and 16x was fine for that too. The keys is to buy good quality, clear optics. The eyestrain from mirage after a full day of looking through a scope can be really irritating. I personally like the Vortex Viper HST 4-16x44 as a good bang for the buck scope. Exposed turrets, both the turrets and reticle are in MOA (I hate mixed MOA/milrad scopes), and the glass is clear. I've got them on several .223's and a 7mm Rem Mag. They will return to a 100 yard zero after a full day of constantly dialing between 100-1200 yards.
 
Colorado Redneck said:
If you have a scope with spring loaded zero reset turrets and the adjustments are consistent and accurate, the 223 becomes very usable beyond 300 yards. If the rifle will shoot 53 gr. V-max bullets around 3300 fps, you can extend out to 400 or more. The Vortex you mentioned would work just fine IMO. As well, if you can obtain wind speed several ballistics programs can put you in the ballpark for windage. Makes those "hail Marys" a lot more fun, and more apt to hit the target. Need a good rangefinder. Wind meter helps. Have a great time on your prairie dog shoot!
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Thanks, really good information. I'll have to look at the 53gr vmax again. I forgot about them. I know they are a boat tail with a better bc. I have shot them from Hornadys Superperformance line. I recall having mixed results at 100 and 200. Honestly everything I've tried from their "Superperformance" line never printed well for me in any of my rifles. 223s and a 7mm-08. I'll see if I can find the 53gr cased in something else. My barrel is 24" and I can chronograph them to see if I make the 3300.
 
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