Best place for shot placment

R

RYY

Inactive
Hello,
Being fairly new at hunting I am wondering if someone or everyone can tell me why best shot placment is said to be behind the front shoulders. My brother and I each shot a elk last month. They were together and bedded down, we were up wind of them looking down a 150 yard gentle slope to them. We both had, solid rests on the ground, and time to take our shots(my brother counted down from 5 to fire...shooting at the same time, what a rush). We each placed as close to the shoulder as we could and still each Elk needed another shot to be finished off. This got me to thinking could/should we not have tried for a head/neck shot for a quicker, cleaner kill.

Any thoughts and advice would be appreciated.

Thanx
RYY
 
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Hope that helps. :) Also, what are you shooting elk with? 30-06 will put an Elk to rest, 6.5x55 will too, but placement is key. Shooting elk with .223 might lead to a few shots being required!

David
 
Elk are big and tuff. They have a rather large Lung-heart area. When one is hit in the lung heart area with a decent bullet, it will die, but not instantly. It takes time for it to bleed out, flooding the lungs with blood. The more tissue damage the less time it takes it to die. If its spooked, it can run quite a distance before it dies. But actually its a good place to shoot an elk.

Its like a deer. The best place to shoot a deer is in the brisqet area, or lung heart area. If hit properly the deer will hump up, walk a few feet and drop. If the deer is spooked, it could run a long ways before it goes down. The same way with the elk.

Lots of people shoot to break the shoulder, assuming if the legs are taken out then it cant move. Thats true I suppose, but what normally happens, the bullet is deflected and you only get one leg. Elk, deer, antelope and other critters run pretty fast on one leg. Running off to die and suffer but never found. At least with a lung-heart shot, they may run a distance, but they will die. Less suffering.

I cringe at the thought of the many dead critters I find later that have been lost and suffered because one leg was shot and distroyed.

Spine and head shots are fatal and instant. But hard to do. How many of us really know where the spine or brain is at 150 - 200 yards. Differant angles, moving, etc. Lots of muffed shots. Jaws shot off, high gut shots etc.

This is my opinion. I will not shoot a running critter. I go for a heart-lung shot and watch the critters action. It will hump up. Gut shots also cause the humping action, but its differant, also sounds differant. I like a shot at about 200 yards at a non spooked animal. I can tell how its hit by its action. I set still and watch it move about 20 ft or so and lay down. I don't do follow up shots. I watch the critter. Give it a bit of time making sure its dead or two sick to move.

Its confidence in your shooting that makes for retrieved game and less wounded and lost critters in my opinion. I don't shoot unless I KNOW, I wont miss.

Normaly I dont like war stories but this one fits perfectly. Its like one time in my law enforcement sniping duties. One time I was called to take out a large german shephard that was suspected of rabies and had bitten a child. We were given to midnight to get the dog or the the child would undergo a series of rabies shots. I got a chance at the dog, it a urban area. Made the shot on the moving dog at 238 yards. I was asked "What if You Missed" (like I said, an urban area, lots of houses and such). I told them if there was a doubt on the shot, I wouldn't have shot. No one condems one if he dosnt get a shot. The comdemnation comes from missing, or worse hitting something you dont intend to hit. Its the same way with hunting. We come back with the story we "didnt get a shot" no one says anything, but its differant if its " I shot and wounded the critter but it got away".

Its confidence in your shooting, and knowing when not to shoot. Knowing the actions of an animal that is hit in differant areas. We ow it to the game we shoot to shoot them in a humain manner. Not letting them suffer.

If you shoot, and know you have hit a vital area, wait, if you shoot agian you often spook the critter and it runs off to suffer.

Thats not to say, if you shoot one, and its down and out, but alive, you shouldnt put it out of its missory.

JMHO
 
I my self had a question about shot placement on some game that I had not had the chance to hunt and found the book " The Perfect Shot North America, Shot Placement for North Americna Big Game" . It has some real good information on all big game in NA that should answer your questions about what is the best place to aim at.
 
I agree with kraigwy. If you know you hit them in the heart/lung area. Wait a while. Give them a chance to bed down and bleed out and die or get too weak to move. Don't take a second shot if you know the first one was in a vital area.
Don't try to track them for a while.

Head shots? Most of that head will result in a fatal wound where the animal takes days to die. You've got to hit the brain in that head. That's a much smaller target. Look at the picture of that elk. I doubt his brain is as big as your fist. Can you reliably hit a fist sized target at 150-200 yards?

I've made a spine shot at 250 yards. By accident. Not by luck. I was aiming behind the shoulder in the center of the ribcage. What does that mean? It means I can miss my point of aim by nearly a foot in any direction and still have a hit in vitals. And that is what happened with the spine shot. The trajectory of my bullet was a good eight inches higher than I thought it would be. Truth to tell, I was expecting a hit through the rib cage about six below my point of aim. Right around the heart.

Choose where you have the most margin of error and remain in the vital zone.

That's not the head unless you are an excellent rifle shot or the animal is very close.

I'll take the thoracic cavity over the head with game any day.

By the way, any chance that your caliber or bullet might have had some bearing?
 
I usually aim for where I want my bullet to exit as well, just like they preach in bow hunting. I prefer full broad side shots and quartering away over any others. I like the lungs as well, in fact if I don't have to make a snap shot I talk myself through everyone. I want to have my bullet exit through the lower 1/3 of the heart lung area gets both lungs and most times the heart.

Taking out both lungs even on elk I've never had one go more than a few yards most died pretty much where they stood. The most dramatic one I had was with a .270 through both lungs of a cow elk. At the hit she rared up and fell over backwards and slid about ten yards down the hill and never moved.

I've only shot for the shoulders intentionally once on big game and that was on my black bear hunt in Alaska. I used a 200 grain Nosler Partition in my .30-06 figuring that it would deflect the least and still give me reasonable range. I chose the high shoulder shot to try and take out the CNS and break down the front end all in one shot. It worked my bear dropped at the shot and didn't move again, but I still put two more in him to make sure at 200 yards. The killing shot broke through the front and offside shoulder almost in a straight line leaving a golf ball sized exit wound.
 
If you know you hit them in the heart/lung area. Wait a while. Give them a chance to bed down and bleed out and die or get too weak to move. Don't take a second shot if you know the first one was in a vital area.
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How come you don't want to take a second shot at the vitals? Even though you've already shot the animal in the vitals, why not take a good second shot at the vitals and hope that the second shot drops the animal?
 
Why? Because likely the animal is moving now. The chance of missing that second shot is too great. What are the consequences of missing that second shot? An adrenaline dump in the animal, resulting in him moving out for a long distance at great speed.

On the other hand, blood loss causes weakness. The natural response to weakness is to lie down if nothing else alarms the animal. Waiting fifteen minutes or so results in accumulative blood loss. This additional blood loss results in either a dead animal or one that is too weak to run away.

why not take a good second shot
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Because the circumstances are likely to be such that there won't be a good second shot.
 
G'day, I've only taken one large buck. It was with a .270, 130 GR soft point at about 50 to 70 paces. He had been looking straight at me and I think he was about to take off. I put one shot into the chest. It broke two ribs, through one lung, damaged the heart, just nicked the second lung, chipped another rib on the far side, and the projectile finished just under the skin. When hit this buck decided to take off at a fair trot and was heading behind some scrub ( blackberry & bracken ) on the edge of the bush ( Forrest ). I had just enough time to get off a second shot, then he vanished from sight.
1, It was reasonable to assume that this animal was not going to stop in a hurry.
2, I was familiar with the area I was shooting in.
3, I have had a lot of practice shooting at moving targets. Rabbit on the run if they didn't look like they would stop ( I miss my semi auto ).
4, The second shot was some luck and some skill. It hit low in the neck, shattering the spine. That stopped him in his tracks.
5, The hole experience got me to thinking, I need to learn more about an animals anatomy so as to improve on shot placement.
6, Good shot placement requires a stationary target.
 
Best place to shoot Elk or deer?

Well, I believe it is still behind the shoulder but I would reccommend it be a little high behind the shoulder. For some reason, most of the time this will drop an animal (maybe not at big Elk immediately) but it won't ususally go very far. I have done this my whole adult life as an old hunter told me many years ago about this. It works for me and is easier to hit than a neck shot you mentioned. Your round will get to expand all the way and the animal will absorb most all of the "shock value" of a rilfe bullet. "High behind the Shoulder" is my choice. Good luck.
 
It's easy... D.L.S.

Double Lung Shot = last breathe
Animal has 6-15 seconds of USEFUL consciousness, less if they are running/active and using extra O2.
Double Lung = dead animal within a MAX 200 yard circle, usually MUCH less, like 50.

I, personally, have never seen an exception or had trouble tracking an animal after a double lung shot.


P.S. - If you're not using enough gun to ensure AT LEAST enough penetration for both lungs... you're not using enough gun.
 
The Shoulder shot is a bit of a misnomer. You actually aim to hit behind the shoulder and in the lower third of the body.
There are some folks that will try to break the shoulder as well as hitting the lungs. Imho that isn't as good an idea as going for a double lung shot. Aiming to break the shoulder takes the possibility of hitting the heart out of play.

But since you and your partner got your elks, you must have done something right.
 
Buzzcock, we got the Elk based on the fact we had the element of surprise on our side. I think the low sloping grass bowl the Elk were bedded down in caused the echo of our shots to confuse the animals, not assuring them of a clear direction on where the shots were coming from. I ended up shoting at my elk once while it was laying down, and once more after it stood up. I continued to watch it through my scope and it stumbled and then fell, but did not die. I am hoping to learn to shot any animal I aim at dead!! I know not all of my stalks/hunts are going to be like hollywood where one bullet kills all. I just have to learn to shot, think, breath and act appropritely in deciding to shot again or wait. Thank you all for your thoughts and advice.

RYY
 
I just have to learn to shot, think, breath and act appropritely in deciding to shot again or wait. Thank you all for your thoughts and advice.
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Go for that lung shot. The animal will be dead before you make up your mind to take another shot. That said, if the thing is just standing there and you feel compelled to shoot it again, by all means do so. It's just another hole. If you've already made one good shot another will make little difference.
 
Double lung shots are ideal, most everybody knows that. But I'm not going to pass on a 140 class buck that is quartering to me just because it's not broadside. I'll put my 140gr Accubond thru the close side shoulder and then go pick him up. You will miss a lot of oportunities by waiting on a broadside shot. I'm the same way with bowhunting. Non-broadside shots aren't ideal, but I ain't skeered, if you can do it, do it. I'm confident enough in my equipment and my abilities to make such a shot.

I love close, neck shots on slickheads (under 150 yard with rifle). Limited meat and hide damage. I like to keep and tan the hides.

I'm sorry, but I'm not with the tired old "Broadside Only" crowd. It's not realistic. If I'd waited on a broadside shot on every critter, I wouldn't have killed half of the ones I have.
 
But I'm not going to pass on a 140 class buck that is quartering to me just because it's not broadside.
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I agree but it would have to be a SEVERE quartering shot to not still be able to hit both lungs. It might be the back of one and the front of the other, but it's almost always possible. Neck shots I have found are also very useful, at least with extreme power (I hunt deer with a 12ga), I have never had a deer hit in the neck take another step. That said, I still don't trust it as much as a lung shot. Someday the neck shot might fail, a hole in both lungs will NEVER fail.

Too me, a quartering shot so severe as to preclude hitting both lungs is not a shot I will take as I see too much likelihood of an error causing me to hit the hind-quarter , I might try for a neck shot but it depends on the situation. There are too many variables to be definitive.
 
Kraigwy...I have to say that no matter how good of a shooter you are, to take a shot at a moving dog, in an urban area, at 238 yds. is not a very intelligent thing to do.
 
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