Best duty sidearm?
- Thread starter Lightsped
- Start date
That's a good question . . . . .
I think the Glock series of semi-auto's is inherently perfect for law enforcement. And the key to that is simplicity; easy to load, easy to carry, easy to clean, easy to shoot, etc. Most rookie cops don't know anything about handguns and have never touched one. The safe-action makes it very easy and consistent of firearm to learn and train with. And those of us who can walk-the-walk around handguns also like the simplicity and ease of operation. At the same time it is also VERY important to stress weapon retention with the Glock. Bad guy might not get the safety off that Beretta 92FS in time for you to end his life with your backup, but Glocks are as easy for the BG to shoot as it is for the Rookie. So my advice would be Glock 9mm or 40 with good night sights (Mepro or Trijicons) and a Level III retention holster. And maybe even a G26 or G27 riding on your ankle. IMHO.
mlk18
I think the Glock series of semi-auto's is inherently perfect for law enforcement. And the key to that is simplicity; easy to load, easy to carry, easy to clean, easy to shoot, etc. Most rookie cops don't know anything about handguns and have never touched one. The safe-action makes it very easy and consistent of firearm to learn and train with. And those of us who can walk-the-walk around handguns also like the simplicity and ease of operation. At the same time it is also VERY important to stress weapon retention with the Glock. Bad guy might not get the safety off that Beretta 92FS in time for you to end his life with your backup, but Glocks are as easy for the BG to shoot as it is for the Rookie. So my advice would be Glock 9mm or 40 with good night sights (Mepro or Trijicons) and a Level III retention holster. And maybe even a G26 or G27 riding on your ankle. IMHO.
mlk18
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
SIG P220. Next question?
Talk about a can of worms! You'll get as many answers for that one as there are opinions on which is the best self defense pistol.
But, since that is what I do for my PD - we chose the Glock style striker fired pistol as the best style. It is simple, rugged, and very reliable. So, I would say the Glock in .40 S&W. (Recently, while I was out due to an injury the senior rangmaster ordered all new S&W Sigmas - That was what we had before and they all worked great. He just went with the same thing after looking at the price difference and cost of new leather gear for a different gun. Hope they work as well as our last batch, I probably wouldn't have taken the same gamble... Also, I will not buy a new S&W for political reasons and think the GLocks would do just as well - no gamble or cultism involved!)
Caliber: .40 S&W because it gives the minimal amount of performance we would want in a duty load with the highest capacity magazines. (15 rounds) Before it existed we carried .45 acp and we would go back to that if you could fit 15 round in a gun that could be comfortably carried by everyone in the dept.
But, since that is what I do for my PD - we chose the Glock style striker fired pistol as the best style. It is simple, rugged, and very reliable. So, I would say the Glock in .40 S&W. (Recently, while I was out due to an injury the senior rangmaster ordered all new S&W Sigmas - That was what we had before and they all worked great. He just went with the same thing after looking at the price difference and cost of new leather gear for a different gun. Hope they work as well as our last batch, I probably wouldn't have taken the same gamble... Also, I will not buy a new S&W for political reasons and think the GLocks would do just as well - no gamble or cultism involved!)
Caliber: .40 S&W because it gives the minimal amount of performance we would want in a duty load with the highest capacity magazines. (15 rounds) Before it existed we carried .45 acp and we would go back to that if you could fit 15 round in a gun that could be comfortably carried by everyone in the dept.
Glock
I am not a big Glock fan, but I think for LE they are the best choice.
Durability
Ease of maintanance
Reliability
Acceptable accuracy
Specifically, I would issue the Glock 21. Its one of the most accurate Glock models IMO, and more importantly it is very reliable and holds 13+1 rounds of potent .45 ACP ammo. The G21 is also a mild recoiling .45, so even recoil sensitive officers would have a good chance at mastering it.
In case anyone is wondering about the huge Glock 21 grip size.........I would issue officers with smaller hands the Glock 17. I'd issue the Glock 30 as a standard backup (those officers who chose the Glock 17 due to small hand size would be issued the Glock 26 as backup).
I am not a big Glock fan, but I think for LE they are the best choice.
Durability
Ease of maintanance
Reliability
Acceptable accuracy
Specifically, I would issue the Glock 21. Its one of the most accurate Glock models IMO, and more importantly it is very reliable and holds 13+1 rounds of potent .45 ACP ammo. The G21 is also a mild recoiling .45, so even recoil sensitive officers would have a good chance at mastering it.
In case anyone is wondering about the huge Glock 21 grip size.........I would issue officers with smaller hands the Glock 17. I'd issue the Glock 30 as a standard backup (those officers who chose the Glock 17 due to small hand size would be issued the Glock 26 as backup).
I would issue a Glock, but it would be something in 9mm or .40 S&W. And I would lean more toward the 17/22 than the 19/23. The .357 Sig's recoil can make it tough for rapid, accurate second shots, so it would be out for general issue IMO. The .40 can be pretty sharp in recoil as well, but it's not nearly as snappy as the .357 from my perspective.
I guess if you want to issue one piece that can be carried on AND off duty with ease, then the G19/G23 would be the way to go.
Just my $0.02, which is about all it's worth!
I guess if you want to issue one piece that can be carried on AND off duty with ease, then the G19/G23 would be the way to go.
Just my $0.02, which is about all it's worth!
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
If it had to be a [semi-auto] Pistol, I think I would go with Beretta 92's. I would go with Glock, but the Glock trigger system is not for everyone. I am fine with it, but many are not. I would not want to be the one to force someone to use a sidearm they couldn't handle properly. The Beretta 92 is a standard DA sidearm and is easily learnable by anyone competint enough to handle a pistol. The decocker is a great feature as well.
If it could be any handgun, I would go with some sort of S&W chambered in 357 Magnum. Probably a Model 66 or something similar. The issue ammo would be something in 38spl+p+ for liability reasons.
If it could be any handgun, I would go with some sort of S&W chambered in 357 Magnum. Probably a Model 66 or something similar. The issue ammo would be something in 38spl+p+ for liability reasons.
IamNOTaNUT
New member
I prefer the Sig for duty use. They are excellent guns. They combine reliability with accuracy and have good triggers out of the box. One of the problems of finding an issue sidearm is that no one gun is going to fit every officer. With the Sig, you have guns in different sizes, both single and double stack, that all work the same way. You can equip everyone with the same caliber and holster, and fit the gun to the officer.
David Scott
New member
As I understand the question, it's not what I'd choose for myself but what I'd choose to issue to a law enforcement organization. I see the priorities as:
Reliability
Durability
Stopping Power
Ease of operation
Ease of maintenance
Resistance to unauthorized use by gun grabbing felon
Without going through the entire gun catalog, I will say that I agree with the choice of Florida State Police and the INS -- the Beretta 96D. Reliable, durable (get the "Brigadier" reinforced slide), powerful stopper with the right ammo, easy to use, lots of qualified armorers out there (hire ex-military, it's just like the M9 except for caliber), and that bassackwards slide mounted safety might just confuse the felon long enough for you to pull your backup Kahr .40 and drop him.
Reliability
Durability
Stopping Power
Ease of operation
Ease of maintenance
Resistance to unauthorized use by gun grabbing felon
Without going through the entire gun catalog, I will say that I agree with the choice of Florida State Police and the INS -- the Beretta 96D. Reliable, durable (get the "Brigadier" reinforced slide), powerful stopper with the right ammo, easy to use, lots of qualified armorers out there (hire ex-military, it's just like the M9 except for caliber), and that bassackwards slide mounted safety might just confuse the felon long enough for you to pull your backup Kahr .40 and drop him.
Mlk18 has excellent points that should be considered when contemplating weapons choices. It's the whole picture that you're interested in, and in my opinion the G22 (issued, like Mlk18 wrote, with a double or triple retention holster) would be a top choice. The Glock benefits from the same characteristic the 1911 has - the same trigger pull for each shot fired. There will be no transition from first DA shot to subsequent SA shots, and no extraneous levers or safeties to engage or disengage. This, I believe, will make it easier for training both dedicated, and more importantly, non dedicated personnel. Along with that retention holster, though, must be thorough and adequate training in its use.
Much has been said about the DA auto being a better LE firearm, since many more suspects will be held at gunpoint than actually fired upon. The benefit of the DA auto being that the DA trigger requires a full, long and heavy trigger stroke before ignition, as compared to the lighter and shorter stroke of a 1911 and a stock Glock trigger. Because of sympathetic squeeze response, startle response or loss of balance response, an officer carrying a 1911 or Glock, with his finger on the trigger would most likely experience a negligent discharge. A DA, with its heavier trigger stroke, could possibly avoid one. This problem, which relates to training and when the finger is placed into the trigger guard, is more likely to occur with non-dedicated personnel. The Glock can also be equipped with a heavier trigger stroke via the NY1 trigger module (?, can't remember the term).
As for the above, a counter argument would be that the first shot is usually the one that counts the most, and that is where the 1911 and the Glock would shine over the traditional DA auto. Would you equip. your officers with arms that are best utilized from a lawsuit, legality viewpoint, or would you arm them with weapons that are the best for fighting?
Now, the traditional DA auto (and also the DAO) can be mastered and shot as well as a 1911, but for the most part I believe that non-dedicated personnel will perform (shooting, that is, not holding people at gunpoint) better with a 1911, Glock or similar trigger mechanism. Holding people at gunpoint is a training issue, and a different question.
I believe that a G22, with or without a heavier trigger via the NY1 module would be an ideal weapon choice. Issued with at least a double retention holster (and the training to boot) and a credible backup pc. as well.
EricO
Much has been said about the DA auto being a better LE firearm, since many more suspects will be held at gunpoint than actually fired upon. The benefit of the DA auto being that the DA trigger requires a full, long and heavy trigger stroke before ignition, as compared to the lighter and shorter stroke of a 1911 and a stock Glock trigger. Because of sympathetic squeeze response, startle response or loss of balance response, an officer carrying a 1911 or Glock, with his finger on the trigger would most likely experience a negligent discharge. A DA, with its heavier trigger stroke, could possibly avoid one. This problem, which relates to training and when the finger is placed into the trigger guard, is more likely to occur with non-dedicated personnel. The Glock can also be equipped with a heavier trigger stroke via the NY1 trigger module (?, can't remember the term).
As for the above, a counter argument would be that the first shot is usually the one that counts the most, and that is where the 1911 and the Glock would shine over the traditional DA auto. Would you equip. your officers with arms that are best utilized from a lawsuit, legality viewpoint, or would you arm them with weapons that are the best for fighting?
Now, the traditional DA auto (and also the DAO) can be mastered and shot as well as a 1911, but for the most part I believe that non-dedicated personnel will perform (shooting, that is, not holding people at gunpoint) better with a 1911, Glock or similar trigger mechanism. Holding people at gunpoint is a training issue, and a different question.
I believe that a G22, with or without a heavier trigger via the NY1 module would be an ideal weapon choice. Issued with at least a double retention holster (and the training to boot) and a credible backup pc. as well.
EricO
Glocks&Sigs
New member
Sig p220
Personally, I bought my Smitty 5904 9mm BEFORE the political brew ha-ha, and wouldn't get rid of it for ALL the money in the world (unlessosmeone wanted to trade a H&K USP in 40 cal for it)
Glocks are plastic, and I prefer my plastic to have a seal, and keep my food fresh,
I like to buy my metal in firearm form...
I am not a huge fan og Sig's, but that is totally personal, since I have found them to be accurate and reliable, if a bit easy to dis-assemble from the wrong end, if you know what you're doing...
I'd go for a Sig, Ruger, or used Smith for my money...
Glocks are plastic, and I prefer my plastic to have a seal, and keep my food fresh,
I like to buy my metal in firearm form...
I am not a huge fan og Sig's, but that is totally personal, since I have found them to be accurate and reliable, if a bit easy to dis-assemble from the wrong end, if you know what you're doing...
I'd go for a Sig, Ruger, or used Smith for my money...
I agree with David Scott, a Beretta 96D, with a little in house trigger tweaking. Basically a revolver with double the capacity. I'd go with the 40 S&W and Trigicon night sights. I think I'd also authorize the 92D for those officers that dont like the 40's recoil and it would also allow for cheap practice for the officers that train on their own(time and ammo). A second choice and one that I think we will see more of is the sigpro, good pistol and it is CHEAP(a important thing in the gov't) again I'd go for the 40S&W with trigicon night sights. I havent shot one in DAO, but mine in 357 is a tack driver, so is my 92D though... But alas I will continue with Gaston's wonder pistol for now, it's theirs and they take care of it.... Stay Safe
CastleBravo
New member
I'm with WESHOOT2 on this one, Glock 31 in .357 Sig with Gold Dots. Glock 20 is even better but the grip size is too big for alot of people and the recoil might be a bit much for some with full-power loads (these being the only point of using 10mm in the first place ). Since this is hypothetical, anyone in my PD that couldn't cope with wimpy .357 Sig recoil would be given the boot. 
). Since this is hypothetical, anyone in my PD that couldn't cope with wimpy .357 Sig recoil would be given the boot. If I were choosing a pistol for an agency, I'd go for the Beretta 92G or 96G (one or the other, but not both). The barrel is longer than most other DA autos that are suitable for duty use, which will give better accuracy and higher velocity. In my experience, the Beretta in both 9mm and .40 are extremely reliable and durable. The size of the pistol isn't even a factor since it will be a duty sidearm, but the weight helps tame the recoil. I would not authorize anything other than the issued weapon due to two main reasons. First, if my officers were in a firefight, I want them to have interchangeable ammo and magazines. Second, for some reason, if one officer needed to use another's service pistol, he or she would be familiar with it's operation.
Issued ammunition would be Speer Gold Dots in either caliber:
9mm- 124 gr. Speer Gold Dot
.40 S&W- 180 gr. Speer Gold Dot
Both rounds are reliable and accurate.
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I'm going to get carried away and continue on with the rest of the issue firearms.
Off duty weapons and backups would be just about anything, as long as they are cleared with the department armorer and are suitable (no cheap-o Jennings or other such low-quality guns)
Patrol shotguns would be either the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 (again, one or the other). Each would have 00 buck and rifled slugs for duty ammo.
The patrol rifle would be the Bushmater 16" Shorty Carbine (LE version with telestock, bayo lug, etc.) and would be supplied with 55 gr. ball ammo and a few 30-round magazines.
SRT would be equipped with select-fire Bushmaster 14.5" carbines. Being that they are a tactical team, they would get an HK USP in .40/9mm or a GLOCK 17/22 (depending on whether the duty pistol was 9mm or .40). Both are famous for their extreme durability, accuracy, and reliability.
Issued ammunition would be Speer Gold Dots in either caliber:
9mm- 124 gr. Speer Gold Dot
.40 S&W- 180 gr. Speer Gold Dot
Both rounds are reliable and accurate.
---------
I'm going to get carried away and continue on with the rest of the issue firearms.
Off duty weapons and backups would be just about anything, as long as they are cleared with the department armorer and are suitable (no cheap-o Jennings or other such low-quality guns)
Patrol shotguns would be either the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 (again, one or the other). Each would have 00 buck and rifled slugs for duty ammo.
The patrol rifle would be the Bushmater 16" Shorty Carbine (LE version with telestock, bayo lug, etc.) and would be supplied with 55 gr. ball ammo and a few 30-round magazines.
SRT would be equipped with select-fire Bushmaster 14.5" carbines. Being that they are a tactical team, they would get an HK USP in .40/9mm or a GLOCK 17/22 (depending on whether the duty pistol was 9mm or .40). Both are famous for their extreme durability, accuracy, and reliability.
For an agency sidearm I agree with most of the
above replies. One thing that seems to have been
left out is suitability for smaller-handed officers. As simplicity, reliability, and
suitability for non-enthusiast officers could be
an issue - I would go with either a Glock (with
a heavier trigger setup for safety) or one of
the DAO Smith's like the 5944. The smiths have
a suitable trigger reach for those with smaller
hands and a magazine safety to enable the weapon
to be rendered safe in the event of a struggle.
Though not currently buying Smith's myself (for the above mentioned political reasons), in many
ways they are an excellent choice for department
issue. 9mm is an effective caliber and easy to
shoot for inexperienced officers and I feel the
best choice. Incidentally, I carry a Glock.
above replies. One thing that seems to have been
left out is suitability for smaller-handed officers. As simplicity, reliability, and
suitability for non-enthusiast officers could be
an issue - I would go with either a Glock (with
a heavier trigger setup for safety) or one of
the DAO Smith's like the 5944. The smiths have
a suitable trigger reach for those with smaller
hands and a magazine safety to enable the weapon
to be rendered safe in the event of a struggle.
Though not currently buying Smith's myself (for the above mentioned political reasons), in many
ways they are an excellent choice for department
issue. 9mm is an effective caliber and easy to
shoot for inexperienced officers and I feel the
best choice. Incidentally, I carry a Glock.
Random thoughts....
I was not going to get in on this thread, figured everyone would say the same thing I had to say, and I was pretty close to right. Just wanted to echo or add as may be appropriate, since the input on 96D or G or Brigadier has come in unexpectedly.
I don't really like Glocks for ME, but for the average non-shooting guy that we have to issue to and train, the would be tough to beat. They are certainly popular, and I see why. My only problem is that I have seen a lot of 9mm Glocks malfunction due to obvious limp wristing and with small framed people. We have a couple of 110 pound ladies that have demonstrated this to me on the line. Some folks can train it out, some never do. I know a lot of people hate them, but I really like a magazine safety for all the reasons you all already know. I also know that I have seen many Glocks that would not function with our "reloads of questionable parentage." I know, I know, we shouldn't be shooting them anyway, but the fiscal realities of a PD intrude. And they never hurt or jammed the Smiths, HKs, or Sigs.
I am not familiar with the Beratta DA except for some fiing of a test gun in DAO that came out years back. It was smooth, but my heavens it was L-O-N-G. I always thought that the DAO S&W might be a good idea, but with a better trigger. I am glad to see that someone is getting good service out of Sigmas. Problem is that the first generation kind of poisoned the name for them all, it would seem. Would like to try a Gen. II to see if it beat the Glock for "teachable simplicity," combined with reliability.
Me? I like my traditional DA/SA S&W 4563TSW, but admit it is a poor gun for general issue.
That being said, I hate the idea of any agency issuing the same gun to all. I also understand the reasons for it, and have seen the results when the instructors teach one gun, and the rookie has something else.
I was not going to get in on this thread, figured everyone would say the same thing I had to say, and I was pretty close to right. Just wanted to echo or add as may be appropriate, since the input on 96D or G or Brigadier has come in unexpectedly.
I don't really like Glocks for ME, but for the average non-shooting guy that we have to issue to and train, the would be tough to beat. They are certainly popular, and I see why. My only problem is that I have seen a lot of 9mm Glocks malfunction due to obvious limp wristing and with small framed people. We have a couple of 110 pound ladies that have demonstrated this to me on the line. Some folks can train it out, some never do. I know a lot of people hate them, but I really like a magazine safety for all the reasons you all already know. I also know that I have seen many Glocks that would not function with our "reloads of questionable parentage." I know, I know, we shouldn't be shooting them anyway, but the fiscal realities of a PD intrude. And they never hurt or jammed the Smiths, HKs, or Sigs.
I am not familiar with the Beratta DA except for some fiing of a test gun in DAO that came out years back. It was smooth, but my heavens it was L-O-N-G. I always thought that the DAO S&W might be a good idea, but with a better trigger. I am glad to see that someone is getting good service out of Sigmas. Problem is that the first generation kind of poisoned the name for them all, it would seem. Would like to try a Gen. II to see if it beat the Glock for "teachable simplicity," combined with reliability.
Me? I like my traditional DA/SA S&W 4563TSW, but admit it is a poor gun for general issue.
That being said, I hate the idea of any agency issuing the same gun to all. I also understand the reasons for it, and have seen the results when the instructors teach one gun, and the rookie has something else.