Best defense ammo for a .357?

G

Guyon

New member
Using the search function on this forum, I've found a lot of good discussion about the best loads for 9mm (as well as other semi-autos). However, I can't find much about preferences when it comes to the .357. I have a S&W 686, and I'm just curious about what people use for defensive loads.

Any ideas?



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Guyon
NRA Member
 
Full house 125gr has a proven track record. If you want to duplicate these results use Federal or Remington, or go a different promising road and use Triton Quick-Shocks 125gr.

Pretty much any quality manufacturers 125gr is best for self defense. The full power 158gr's tend to overpenetrate.
 
(sigh) There it is again...the old 'overpenetration' bugaboo. :rolleyes:

There may, granted, be times when a bullet passing through the intended target causes subsidiary damage to objects beyond. But there are many more instances where objects IN FRONT of the intended target must be penetrated in order to reach it.
The theory of 'energy dump inside the target' is pure horse-apples. Any load that is capable of through-and-through penetration, producing TWO air and juice leaks, has done a better job than one that stops inside.
For this reason, I want any defense or hunting load in any caliber to be one capable of complete penetration. The vague possibility that someone on the other side may be discommoded is not an arguement for accepting an inferior load.
My .357 defense load is a Sierra 140-grain hollowpoint over enough 2400 to get it up to 1400 fps. Not a snubby load, but my .357 house gun is a long heavy all-steel revolver that handles the load very well.

--slabsides

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
125gr.JHP Fed.,Rem. or equivalent. They are the standard by which other handgun rounds are judged in many circles. They do massive tissue damage and have more than ample penetration. Overpenetration BTW *IS* a real issue. As just one of many possible examples, in one 2 year period 5 (!!!) NYC Transit cops were hit by other officers 147gr 9mmJHPs that overpenetrated a BG. Tell these 5 guys it`s a "bugaboo"! I`d MUCH rather have to shoot the BG a few more times (unlikely anyway) than have to explain why I`d shot (and maybe killed!) an inocent human being. What`s more NEVER use handloads especially hot ones for self defence! Greedy a$$hole lawyers eat that stuff up! It doesn`t matter if it`s right or wrong or makes sense or doesn`t when you`re rotting in a cell somewhere because you used "extra deadly super killer handloads" because you didn`t think a ".357 MAGNUM ,one of the most powerful handguns in the world" was deadly enough! Remember the jury won`t be made up of gun guys,they`ll be regular sheeple who actually believe that crap. :( It pays to read about actual court cases to see how stupid this stuff can get and how much trouble you can end up in. Marcus
 
To me, it is a given that the top five or so loads in .357 are going to stop the BG with greater efficiency than most other handgun loads. I am waiting (1 a month) for two .357 revolvers, one a small frame 4" Ruger and the other a medium frame S&W 6". Now, I've shot my Glock 33 in .357 Sig and have found that I am unable to generate the rapidity and accuracy that I can with my 9mm P7M8. With respect to the .357, it seems that the lighter bullet is the way to go, so as to reduce felt recoil. The overpenetration arguement seems secondary to me. It isn't unimportant, but I want to find a load that I can shoot accurately and with great speed upon follow-up. This means trying to reduce the recovery time. Voila, we have a less massive bullet.

The muzzle flash issue has never been addressed with any degree of detail. What is the pecking order in terms of muzzle flash? Do the Federal loads behave better than Remington? Are they all the same?

My girlfriend is rather small and will be using the SP101. Is it better to use, for defensive purposes, a +P+ load in the SP101, or are the better .357 loads? I'm thinking of .357 that provides better results than +P+, but with less kick than full .357.
 
"two juice leaks"

What about all the leaks inside, don't they count.

Perforated organs contained within the bad-guy is the key, not two holes in his skin.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary H:
With respect to the .357, it seems that the lighter bullet is the way to go, so as to reduce felt recoil.[/quote]

Gary,

I may be missing something, in which case I hope you and other TFL contributors will straighten me out, however, the lighter loads (for example, 125 grain) should have greater recoil than the heavier loads (such as the 158 grain). You can check http://www.greent.com/40Page/ to ascertain the muzzle energy of various .357 magnum rounds. The key point is recoil should vary directly with muzzle energy (i. e., the greater the muzzle energy the greater the recoil) based on Newton's laws.
 
You certainly have your physics right. Force=MassxAcceleration Was that the way it was taught many years ago?

I think that "felt recoil" is a different animal. When folks speak of felt recoil, they discuss bullet mass, the rate of burn, muzzle energy, gun mass and barrel axis. Whenever someone has suggested that less massive bullets result in less felt recoil for a given muzzle energy, I have assumed that escaping gasses vent differently with the lighter loads, spreading the energy over a longer period of time and in this way lower felt recoil.

Someone will actually know the answer to this question. I'm just babbling :)
 
Personally, I have better luck with follow up shots using light bullets. Regardless of how much recoil in generated, the lighter loads seem to snap instead of push. The snap is over with faster, and my sights are back on the target faster.
 
I use the Winchester 145 gr. Silvertip HP. It seems to have very slightly less recoil than the 125 gr. Federal JHP. The Silvertip also has minimal muzzle flash, much less than any 125 gr. load I've shot in either .38 Spl. +P or .357 (this from a 3" barrel, too). Based on tests posted at firearmstactical.com, I like its performance better than the 125 grainers too.

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Alfadog
NRA Life Member

"DO NOT TAKE COUNSEL OF YOUR FEARS."
--G. S. Patton, Jr., Lt. Gen., USA, 6 March 1944
 
Marcus: You've used the example of the NYC Transit cops a couple of times in posts lately. Makes me wonder if said cops don't need a bit more training in fire discipline: Motto: Don't shoot bad guys standing in front of brother officers. When I contemplate the abysmal quality of marksmanship historically exhibited by NY cops, I am not surprised that an example from their experience is so easy to come by. Actually, a very good case could be made for disarming them altogether. (The Diallo case comes to mind.)

Incidentally, the discussion here is .357 DEFENSE loads, which, if you think about it is a different kettle of crabs from 9mm service loads. Cop requirements, are certainly different from civilian's; my choice in loads was for the latter.

TV: The juice leaking from those two holes you mentioned will be from all the internals disrupted by a Mach 1.5 hollow-cavity doing its thing inside. I'm not advocating a FMJ.

To reiterate my position: concern about overpenetration of defense loads is largely misplaced. Based on my experience, a bullet that has enough motivation to go through moderate barrier materials and still make a through-and- through hit on the target is 'best' for defense. I'm not saying I can't be dissuaded from this opinion, but it would take more than Aristotelian arguements, urban legends, second-hand anecdotes and gun-rag rumors to do it.

If (as is unlikely) a bottom-feeding shyster ever tries to make a case of my choice of load in a righteous defense shooting, I'll get MY lawyer to go over to his house and toilet paper it. 'Nuff said, by me, on this subject.

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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
 
Have 686, 2.5"bbl. I like the Cor-Bon defensive 125gr. Have done low light drills and the flash doesn't seem to affect night vision near as much as some. Accuracy excellent and recoil mild. Easy double taps.

Sam
 
Whatever you can shoot expert, or better yet, master with.

( Yes, even distinguished master level scores can be shot with a k-frame 2 1/2 inch and you have a heavier l-frame. Yes, you can learn to shoot it accurately at 50 yards. )
 
Hey, folks, I've BEEN to New York's training facility. Scarry. Inmates walking around in orange suits, looking like they're going to eat someone. I don't like that. I didn't have a gun, and I'm not sure the inmates didn't. The cops...... nice guys, but the material that makes up an officer in the city of New York is not the same material that a back-country farm community would give. Not surprised that they can't hit the broad side of a barn. Some of those guys have never picked up a gun until the day they get to the range!

As far as 357 Mag. ammo: Go for 125 gr. hollow points from a MAJOR ammo manufacturer. They'll all kill 'em dead.

Slim, out.
 
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