Beretta96 or Hi-Power40
- Thread starter T22
- Start date
Stephen A. Camp
Staff In Memoriam
Hello. An officer I know had a Beretta 96; he shot it quite a bit with factory ammo. It developed a crack in the slide which began at the breechface to the left of the firing pin hole as you are looking at the slide. You could feel the crack with your fingernail or knife tip as well and holding the slide at a certain angle to the light, you could see light through it. He sent it back to Beretta. They sent it back, saying that there was no crack and the gun was in spec. He sold the Beretta and has not used their products since.
I owned a Browning .40 HP, but only fired about 1000 rounds through it. I got rid of it because I simply do not like forty caliber at all. I like either 9mm, .38 Super, or .45ACP in autopistols. Nothing was wrong with the Browning and it showed no undue wear and I experienced no parts breakage. With loads it liked, the BHP was surprisingly accurate, more so than expected.
Were I choosing between the two, without question, I'd go with the Browning. The design is more simple and easy to detail strip for extensive cleaning and I suspect that Browning Arms will honor their warranty at least as "good" as Beretta and probably a lot better.
Best.
I owned a Browning .40 HP, but only fired about 1000 rounds through it. I got rid of it because I simply do not like forty caliber at all. I like either 9mm, .38 Super, or .45ACP in autopistols. Nothing was wrong with the Browning and it showed no undue wear and I experienced no parts breakage. With loads it liked, the BHP was surprisingly accurate, more so than expected.
Were I choosing between the two, without question, I'd go with the Browning. The design is more simple and easy to detail strip for extensive cleaning and I suspect that Browning Arms will honor their warranty at least as "good" as Beretta and probably a lot better.
Best.
My department switched from the Beretta 92 to the 96 in 1998. We havent had any problems with them and I really like the weapon. I think you will have better durability out of a 9mm anything than a .40, but all our Berettas are reliable.
I dont know a thing about Hi-powers.
good luck.
I dont know a thing about Hi-powers.
good luck.
I have both.
The 96 is a PSP gun and I didn`t buy it to shoot it. The durn thing is huge! Besides, the homies practice stripping the slide on the 96 in prison which is one reason some police dep`ts got rid of them. I don`t know about the frame cracking but I can believe it? The Mark III HP frame will handle hot loads. I like the HP much better but one is DAO and the other is SA. That`s a big consideration for some people.
The 96 is a PSP gun and I didn`t buy it to shoot it. The durn thing is huge! Besides, the homies practice stripping the slide on the 96 in prison which is one reason some police dep`ts got rid of them. I don`t know about the frame cracking but I can believe it? The Mark III HP frame will handle hot loads. I like the HP much better but one is DAO and the other is SA. That`s a big consideration for some people.
The Beretta with the cracked slide is the exception, not the rule. You can't go wrong with either gun, get the one that fits and feels better to you. I would get either the Border Marshall or Elite Beretta depending on wether you wanted DAO or DA/SA. The heavier slide on these really helps tame the snappy recoil of the 40.
On another note, how exactly do "the homies practice stripping the slide on the 96 in prison" I would think that if they had a 96 in prison, they would probably use it to try to break out, not practice field stripping it. Also, in a situation where your gun is drawn, would you really wait for someone to field strip your pistol? Maybe in Hollywood. Or would you fire as soon as the "homie" reached for it?
On another note, how exactly do "the homies practice stripping the slide on the 96 in prison" I would think that if they had a 96 in prison, they would probably use it to try to break out, not practice field stripping it. Also, in a situation where your gun is drawn, would you really wait for someone to field strip your pistol? Maybe in Hollywood. Or would you fire as soon as the "homie" reached for it?
I have extensive experience with both guns. I prefer the 96 as a shooter but it is a little large. The Hi-Power is much easier to conceal. Before you buy the Hi-Power, I would suggest you buy one and strip it, then put it back together. (I'm specifically referring to the .40, here.) It is a BEAR to reassemble.
<rant>
A point I'm sick of hearing about: All of you who think that the slide can be removed from a 92 series pistol in a fight need to stay away from the movies. Yes, we've all had our friend hold an unloaded Beretta and we've unlatched the release and pulled the slide off. It's fun. Try to do it in a real fight, however, and I'm afraid you'll end up full of holes.
Hey dinosaur, are the "homies" whittling their practice 96s out of bars of soap? We have to be carefull what we write here. The lurkers are just looking for an excuse to call us racist.
</rant>
<rant>
A point I'm sick of hearing about: All of you who think that the slide can be removed from a 92 series pistol in a fight need to stay away from the movies. Yes, we've all had our friend hold an unloaded Beretta and we've unlatched the release and pulled the slide off. It's fun. Try to do it in a real fight, however, and I'm afraid you'll end up full of holes.
Hey dinosaur, are the "homies" whittling their practice 96s out of bars of soap? We have to be carefull what we write here. The lurkers are just looking for an excuse to call us racist.
</rant>
9mmepiphany
New member
they feel so different that i would think if you liked one you wouldn't care for the other. also the big difference of DA/SA w/frame slidemounted safety vs. SA w/framemounted safety.
my department issues sig 229 in .40 and made me stop carrying my 1911 awhile back. never could get used to the snappy recoil. tried a glock 22 but they didn't like that either. about to give up on finding a .40 with accurracy of my 226 or 220, until i took in a berreta 96 is part of a defaulted load.
the 96 is surprisingly, to me, accurate and just ate out the center of the target from 25 and 50yds, i think my eyes just like the longer sight radius. very nice factory trigger (and i'm picky) and the best slide mounted safety i've ever handled. i stocked up on used departmental trade-in mags (10rd NP3) for <$15. never had a bobble feeding and induced stoppages (hard to do with the open slide) are easy to clear. only objection is the thicker grip.
i would look at the elite model too, more for the dovetailed front sight and deeper backstrap than the thicker slide.
my department issues sig 229 in .40 and made me stop carrying my 1911 awhile back. never could get used to the snappy recoil. tried a glock 22 but they didn't like that either. about to give up on finding a .40 with accurracy of my 226 or 220, until i took in a berreta 96 is part of a defaulted load.
the 96 is surprisingly, to me, accurate and just ate out the center of the target from 25 and 50yds, i think my eyes just like the longer sight radius. very nice factory trigger (and i'm picky) and the best slide mounted safety i've ever handled. i stocked up on used departmental trade-in mags (10rd NP3) for <$15. never had a bobble feeding and induced stoppages (hard to do with the open slide) are easy to clear. only objection is the thicker grip.
i would look at the elite model too, more for the dovetailed front sight and deeper backstrap than the thicker slide.
bedlamite, you took the words right out of my mouth. How on earth are these prisoners "practicing" yanking the slide off a Beretta (i.e. are they loaning the prison guard's guns, carving them out of soap as another poster suggested, imagining that they are doing it on a real gun as they go through the motions)?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you run into a guy that can dismantle your Beretta before you can pull the trigger then you've got serious problems. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that there are very few people on the earth that could pull this stunt off and not end up full of holes in the process. The fact of the matter is, if a guy is that quick and can get a hand on your firearm (who cares if he can field strip the thing while you blink, who cares what type of firearm it is, or for that matter how it comes apart) before you react it doesn't matter what kind of firearm you have, you're in trouble.
I'll go out on a limb and say it just flat out isn't going to happen. For those of you that believe it can, get the special take down lever Beretta offers and maybe you can rest easy knowing you've outsmarted all those ninjas who are trained in the art of Beretta Takedown Fu.
Shake
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you run into a guy that can dismantle your Beretta before you can pull the trigger then you've got serious problems. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that there are very few people on the earth that could pull this stunt off and not end up full of holes in the process. The fact of the matter is, if a guy is that quick and can get a hand on your firearm (who cares if he can field strip the thing while you blink, who cares what type of firearm it is, or for that matter how it comes apart) before you react it doesn't matter what kind of firearm you have, you're in trouble.
I'll go out on a limb and say it just flat out isn't going to happen. For those of you that believe it can, get the special take down lever Beretta offers and maybe you can rest easy knowing you've outsmarted all those ninjas who are trained in the art of Beretta Takedown Fu.
Shake
So prisoners don`t ever practice disarming techniques while in the yard? Willing to bet your life on it? Some of them are. They don`t need a bar of soap. Just some knowledge and determination. And time, lots of time.
Has any police officer ever been shot with their own gun? Last I heard the figure was around 30%. That figure may have changed but I`ll bet the % isn`t zero. Those officers had big trouble. The perp would be full of holes? Ever stripped searched a felon? How about thousands of them? Many of them are full of holes and scars. It`s a hazard of the profession. A lot of them are always in condition red.
It`s harder to strip off the slide in a violent confrontation? Since in order to do this, the best way is with the left hand which sweeps the weapon away from the body using the thumb in a downward motion (based on the idea that most people are right handed) while the right hand is possibly causing a distraction. A hard punch to the head usually works. It can`t be done? Again, are you willing to bet your life on it?
I base my opinions on experiences, both my own and other LEO`s.
AFA the word homey goes, when I was a C.O. on Rikers Island, about 65% of my fellow officers were minority. We called each other worse than that. Besides, what race am I? If someone was offended by it, I apologize.
Since we are all friends here, I refrained from being too sarcastic.
Has any police officer ever been shot with their own gun? Last I heard the figure was around 30%. That figure may have changed but I`ll bet the % isn`t zero. Those officers had big trouble. The perp would be full of holes? Ever stripped searched a felon? How about thousands of them? Many of them are full of holes and scars. It`s a hazard of the profession. A lot of them are always in condition red.
It`s harder to strip off the slide in a violent confrontation? Since in order to do this, the best way is with the left hand which sweeps the weapon away from the body using the thumb in a downward motion (based on the idea that most people are right handed) while the right hand is possibly causing a distraction. A hard punch to the head usually works. It can`t be done? Again, are you willing to bet your life on it?
I base my opinions on experiences, both my own and other LEO`s.
AFA the word homey goes, when I was a C.O. on Rikers Island, about 65% of my fellow officers were minority. We called each other worse than that. Besides, what race am I? If someone was offended by it, I apologize.
Since we are all friends here, I refrained from being too sarcastic.
Beretta takedown
I've seen people do the beretta takedown thing in movies, but I didn't think you could really do it. And anyways, I wouldn't think there would be a big problem in the prison system about prisoners field stripping the guards' pistols. But their is a way to prevent that? Shake said something about a special takedown lever thats an option, but I've never heard about that (which is entirely possible). Also, is a beretta the only weapon in which its possible to pull the slide off?
I've seen people do the beretta takedown thing in movies, but I didn't think you could really do it. And anyways, I wouldn't think there would be a big problem in the prison system about prisoners field stripping the guards' pistols. But their is a way to prevent that? Shake said something about a special takedown lever thats an option, but I've never heard about that (which is entirely possible). Also, is a beretta the only weapon in which its possible to pull the slide off?
Hi all, I used to work as a jailer in a fairly large county in N. Texas.
As far as practicing slide removals on an officer's weapon, I've never seen ANY confinement facility, county or state, that allows officers to carry their sidearms past the checkpoint. The inside of every facility I've ever seen is a "no-gun" zone of the highest order -- we're talking instant termination (unless you're a certain Lt., but that's another story....)
So I seriously doubt inmates in the facility are actually practicing on real weapons. Now the other side:
Inmates have a <i>lot</i> of free time to do stuff. They improvise suprisingly well. We often commented that if some of these clowns would put the same ingenuity into making an honest living as they put into taking from society, they would be millionaires.
Fashion a mock Beretta from a bar of soap? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. I've found some pretty amazing soap sculptures during shakedowns. Personally, I have more interesting things to do all day but I'm not locked up, either.
And yes, they do teach each other and they do practice techniques to defeat law enforcement officers. Fortunately for the good guys, most of the techniques are based on urban myth, armchair martial arts experts, and "my cousin's friend did this and got away." <b>Un</b>fortunately, some of it works. Be careful.
And, in my opinion, if they can get their hand on your gun to release the slide, they can also twist, rotate, and disarm you in the same amount of time. Don't let them get that close.
As far as practicing slide removals on an officer's weapon, I've never seen ANY confinement facility, county or state, that allows officers to carry their sidearms past the checkpoint. The inside of every facility I've ever seen is a "no-gun" zone of the highest order -- we're talking instant termination (unless you're a certain Lt., but that's another story....)
So I seriously doubt inmates in the facility are actually practicing on real weapons. Now the other side:
Inmates have a <i>lot</i> of free time to do stuff. They improvise suprisingly well. We often commented that if some of these clowns would put the same ingenuity into making an honest living as they put into taking from society, they would be millionaires.
Fashion a mock Beretta from a bar of soap? Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me a bit. I've found some pretty amazing soap sculptures during shakedowns. Personally, I have more interesting things to do all day but I'm not locked up, either.
And yes, they do teach each other and they do practice techniques to defeat law enforcement officers. Fortunately for the good guys, most of the techniques are based on urban myth, armchair martial arts experts, and "my cousin's friend did this and got away." <b>Un</b>fortunately, some of it works. Be careful.
And, in my opinion, if they can get their hand on your gun to release the slide, they can also twist, rotate, and disarm you in the same amount of time. Don't let them get that close.
Dinosaur...
I appreciate your lack of sarcasm.
Would I bet my life that someone couldn't take the slide off my Beretta while it was in my hand? Absolutely.
By the way, you mention the percentage of officers being shot with their own guns...
What does a complete disarm have to do with the matter at hand? We're talking about removing the slide. I do, in fact, have extensive experience with disarm techniques. I don't know of a single reputable instructor that teaches the disassembly of the gun as a viable option. A takeaway is much more realistic.
I agree that there are a lot of BGs around that are fulla holes. I would submit to you that a center-punched perp is going to have a hard time removing your slide in a fight. I know he would have a hard time removing mine.
Sorry about the "movies" crack. I just hear too many untrained kids that get their info from Hollywood claiming that slide removal is a common occurence with the Beretta.
[Edited by Thumper on 01-12-2001 at 05:25 PM]
I appreciate your lack of sarcasm.
Would I bet my life that someone couldn't take the slide off my Beretta while it was in my hand? Absolutely.
By the way, you mention the percentage of officers being shot with their own guns...
What does a complete disarm have to do with the matter at hand? We're talking about removing the slide. I do, in fact, have extensive experience with disarm techniques. I don't know of a single reputable instructor that teaches the disassembly of the gun as a viable option. A takeaway is much more realistic.
I agree that there are a lot of BGs around that are fulla holes. I would submit to you that a center-punched perp is going to have a hard time removing your slide in a fight. I know he would have a hard time removing mine.
Sorry about the "movies" crack. I just hear too many untrained kids that get their info from Hollywood claiming that slide removal is a common occurence with the Beretta.
[Edited by Thumper on 01-12-2001 at 05:25 PM]
Hey dinosaur, I don't want to come off as a jerk here, but I strongly disagree with you on the whole Beretta slide removal "theory".
I don't doubt for a moment that prisoners do practice disarming techniques. I do seriously doubt that it has any carry-over to the real world as far as dismantling a Beretta is concerned. And yes, I would bet my life on it.
I don't quite get your point about officers being shot with their own weapons. Sadly, it happens a lot (did anyone say otherwise?). This has nothing to do with taking a slide off a Beretta.
The whole concept is moot in my opinion. In a situation where your opponent gets a hand on your weapon the brand, model, and caliber become pretty unimportant real quick. Again, you are in serious trouble. I don't believe for a second that a crook who gets his hand on a weapon during a struggle will concern himself with how it comes apart (they want to use the thing, not field strip it). Do you? In a situation where a gun is drawn, do you really believe the crook is going to register what kind of gun you are leveling at him? I don't.
The manuever you described seems to have little likelyhood of succeeding. The odds of someone pulling this off are astronomical. Think of the amount of movement involved in a confrontation. The odds of a person being able to get their left thumb on a take down lever with a lip the length of a centimeter in order to move the lever, combined with an uncooperative shooter are almost nonexistent. Enough so to be a non-issue.
What crook is going to see someone pull a weapon, identify the gun, decide since it is a Beretta I'm going to attempt the "Beretta field strip manuever", and then have the physical ability to pull it off? I think this idea can be relegated to use in movies or a circus act. The whole concept has no practical application in the real world.
I would bet my life on it in a heartbeat.
Shake
I don't doubt for a moment that prisoners do practice disarming techniques. I do seriously doubt that it has any carry-over to the real world as far as dismantling a Beretta is concerned. And yes, I would bet my life on it.
I don't quite get your point about officers being shot with their own weapons. Sadly, it happens a lot (did anyone say otherwise?). This has nothing to do with taking a slide off a Beretta.
The whole concept is moot in my opinion. In a situation where your opponent gets a hand on your weapon the brand, model, and caliber become pretty unimportant real quick. Again, you are in serious trouble. I don't believe for a second that a crook who gets his hand on a weapon during a struggle will concern himself with how it comes apart (they want to use the thing, not field strip it). Do you? In a situation where a gun is drawn, do you really believe the crook is going to register what kind of gun you are leveling at him? I don't.
The manuever you described seems to have little likelyhood of succeeding. The odds of someone pulling this off are astronomical. Think of the amount of movement involved in a confrontation. The odds of a person being able to get their left thumb on a take down lever with a lip the length of a centimeter in order to move the lever, combined with an uncooperative shooter are almost nonexistent. Enough so to be a non-issue.
What crook is going to see someone pull a weapon, identify the gun, decide since it is a Beretta I'm going to attempt the "Beretta field strip manuever", and then have the physical ability to pull it off? I think this idea can be relegated to use in movies or a circus act. The whole concept has no practical application in the real world.
I would bet my life on it in a heartbeat.
Shake
Apeach, I have never seen the modified takedown lever, but have heard from posters on this board and the Beretta Forum (www.beretta-forum.com) who have installed the lever in their Berettas. Seems like the source was Beretta.
One poster mentioned he had removed the part because it made it a pain to get off. Essentially, it is just an identical part without the "ridge" to facilitate removal.
Shake
One poster mentioned he had removed the part because it made it a pain to get off. Essentially, it is just an identical part without the "ridge" to facilitate removal.
Shake
SigmundSauer
New member
I'd take the 96. I prefer the size and ergonomics of the Browning but the rock-solid reliability of the Beretta can make me stomach my other reservations. Plus, the 96 is what the Border Patrol folks carry and they report very good accuracy and results with those pistols. They are one's to know as well, they get in firefights all the time!
SS
SS