The Original post...Want to Piss off HCI?
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23934
Second post: Want to Piss off HCI...The Second coming.. http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24624
A bit long but bear with me....
Well at the risk of exposing myself to those who may be watching this site to ascertain who I really am, I feel that my TFL Bretheren who assisted me in this matter deserve to know what is happening on the Beretta Vs HCI issue. Rest assured that I have not been Lax in my duties. Unfortunately Ms Marayanne Albert received the brunt of my Ire with this whole situation. Here is the Exchange that I had with Beretta USA......
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Maryanne
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 3:32 PM
Subject: A personal request...
Ms. Albert,
I have written on a couple of occasions and I have called the Beretta Legal Dept. on several occasions. I am becoming quite disgruntled with a Beretta. As I have stated in the past I am a
LONG TIME Beretta owner, I have three currently and I am about to purchase a fourth, A Beretta INOX in either 9mm or 40 S&W. The Only Hand Gun that I have had longer is (was) my Colt King Cobra .357 Magnum, but due to some very bad decisions by Colt in recent weeks I off loaded it and it should be molten slag by now. I can only hope that Colts loss is your gain. I have long been a staunch Beretta advocate and have given you the utmost in product loyalty. So with that said I do not feel that I am out of line when I ask you to give me some feedback on what is in the works to MAKE HCI Remove the Beretta 92/96FS off of it's website?? I have read the standard blurb on your website and I was even sent that same blurb as part of a group e-mailing. It was fine back in September but what is happening now?? As a Beretta Owner (3x's over) I believe I have a right to know. Is there ANYTHING that Beretta CAN do?? Do fair use laws give them the right to use your unmistakable product while you have to sit by and watch idly? I find it odd that HCI had to pay Beretta in it's last legal battle and then uses a Beretta as a Poster child for Gun control! Tell me there isn't some Malice with intent in there somewhere? I am already demonized as a Gun owner I do not need to be further demonized because I own "the kids weapon of choice " for school disagreements that is. Is there anything you can tell me that I can pass to my fellow Beretta owners other that the company line currently posted on your website?? I would appreciate some feedback, Thank you in advance...
Take Care and God Bless
Her Response....
I have forwarded your email to Jeff Reh, our Attorney.
Maryanne
My reply...
Maryanne,
I have left him a phone message on at least two occasions, Hopefully this e-mail gets a higher priority and I will get a response. As you were or are part of the leadership forum I was rather hoping that you had something, you have been very good at responding to concerned consumers. I can appreciate leaving the legal questions to the lawyers, however in case you haven't noticed the natives grow more restless with each passing day. I see it on site after site. Again I look forward to Mr. Rehs response and thank you for all of your assistance to date. Take Care and God Bless
After 2 weeks of no response I sent this message........
Maryanne,
As I suspected Your Mr. Reh apparently gave little credence to my e-mail and chose, as I suspected he would, to completely disregard me and my questions. That is the trouble with large Corporations, you want me to buy your product and with regard to anything else concerning your company ...Butt out. I don't believe that these were part of any of the founding principles of Beretta when the company was first started and I find it unsettling that your company treats it's loyal customers with such disdain. I do not see my request as unreasonable. I have been very loyal too, and have purchased products from on 4 occasions now, no small fortune I might add ( two Beretta model 92f's, one 96f and one 84) My next purchase will be the match grade compensated barrels (conversions) for my 92's ( near future I hope). Having said that I believe that a Quality Company such as Beretta could take some time to explain the how's and the whys of HCI's continued usage of your 92/96FS as it's poster Child. Even if you have to say there is nothing within the law that can prevent HCI from using your Handgun as it's Poster Child for Gun control.
I have called on several occasions, left messages, e-mailed and all to no avail. All at my personal expense, another small fortune. As a 19 year veteran of the US military I can ill afford to spend money frivolously, especially with 4 mouths to feed. A little due consideration was all I asked. I will incur yet one more small debt as I Fax a copy of all of previous e-mails and their responses or non-responses as the case may be to Beretta international headquarters. Fortunately or unfortunately Mr. Reh's Name and yours will be mentioned prominently in the Cover letter.
If you want to be a leader you must do so from the front not from the rear, your leadership forum would imply that you are part of the leadership at Beretta, And at the risk of sounding disparaging or sarcastic I believe that it is time someone there moved up to the front ranks and takes charge of this situation.
Beretta is A quality Company with a great reputation for excellent craftsmanship and product reliability. I do not believe that my loyalties are misplaced but I do believe that a company is only as good as the people it employs and I take exception to this brush off.
Take Care and God Bless,
I then Sent the following FAX to Beretta international ( In Italy )
Dear Beretta.
Before I get into the gist of this letter let me start out by saying that I have enjoyed shooting Berettas for 15 years now. I have been a Beretta Owner formore than 10 years now , ( My first purchase was a Beretta 92fs, and I have purchased another 92 a 96fs and a model 84 since) When Finances Permit I plan
on purchasing your compensated match grade conversions for my model 92's. It is as a Loyal and Concerned Beretta Customer that I write you today. Early in September I discovered that Hand Gun Control Inc. was using your model 92/96 F as it's Poster Child for gun control on it's website. I could not believe my eyes. I sent e-mails and called Beretta USA in Maryland. I discovered that they did not know about it and would look into it. Shortly there afterwards they were inundated with phone calls and e-mails of other concerned consumers expressing their disgust that HCI was using your highly distinguishable Beretta handgun as it's poster Child for Gun Control an even implying that it was the weapon of choice for kids to settle scores at school. It is with regard to my inquiries to Beretta USA that I write this Letter. I did receive as part of a mass E-mailing a response to my initial e-mail. It read identical to the banner now currently posted on your Beretta USA website. As a Beretta owner I felt duty bound to follow up and follow through all attempts at doing so have been Largely ignored or passed off and then ignored. I have e-mailed Ms. Maryanne Albert at Beretta USA and I have called Mr. Jeff Reh on a couple of occasions trying
to ascertain just what if anything Beretta plans on doing about HCI's misuse of your famous ( Soon to be Infamous if this lunacy isn't stopped)handgun. All of which was to no avail, messages were left unreturned and e-mails left largely unanswered or passed off, and then unanswered. I am very disconcerted at the treatment I have received from A company that I have
shown a strong product loyalty to for well over 10 years now. I am of Moderate income and could purchase any number of lesser quality handguns over the years however I have chosen to save my pennies and purchase only Berettas, I have even convinced friends and family that Beretta is the only way to go. Why because Beretta is an outstanding company with a reputation for quality craftsmanship and the highest degree of product reliability. Beretta is a forward thinking company with a quality product.
Who am I?? Just an average American consumer who has placed ( hopefully not misplaced ) his Product loyalty in a Quality Company. I am an American Military Service member of over 19 years and I understand what leadership is and what it means. I understand that in the grand scheme of things I may not
be all that important. However I also know that there are thousands of Beretta consumers out there that would like to know What is Beretta doing about HCI's Misuse of it's highly recognizable pistol as it's poster child for Gun Control? Can Beretta force HCI to remove the image of the 92 F off of it's website?
Secondly why is it that the consumer, namely me at the moment, treated with such disregard when it comes to issues such as these? I believe that Professionalism is paramount in all that we do. I must say that I am astounded at the lack of it or at least the perception thereof of some of the individuals currently in the
employ of Beretta (USA). If you deem it necessary I can provide at least some of the e-mails and their responses, or the lack thereof.
Any Insight that you can give me to what Beretta is currently doing, if anything to kick HCI in the butt and make them remove my favorite Handgun and My weapon of Choice from it's website would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and trouble Good Day and God Bless,
Sincerely
Suddenly Beretta USA woke up and here is their Tepid response.....
Sent Wed 11-10-99
Maryanne Albert in our marketing department has forwarded to me your additional inquiry (emphasis mine, ElJefe) concerning Beretta's opposition to Handgun Control, Inc.'s use of the image of a Beretta Model 92 pistol on its website. Beretta is currently engaged in discussions with the legal staff at HCI concerning this issue and is taking steps to ensure that a wrongful impression that Beretta supports the objectives of HCI not be conveyed to the public by HCI's misappropriation of our product image. We appreciate your expressions of interest in this issue and we will take into account the interest of our supporters as our actions with respect to HCI go forward.
Jeffrey K. Reh
General Counsel
Whew... For those of you who bore with me through all that Thank you Don't get me wrong, I Love My Beretta's and I meant what I said about the Company, However I do not believe that a company should feel that it has gotten so big that it no longer has a duty to answer to the consumer at large. I do find it unfortunate that it took a harsh follow up e-mail and a FAX to the Parent company to invoke a response. I pray that this has further motivated Beretta USA to step up it's efforts. Thought that you all deserved to know!! Take Care and God Bless
El Jefe
[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited November 11, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited November 11, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited November 11, 1999).]
http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23934
Second post: Want to Piss off HCI...The Second coming.. http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=24624
A bit long but bear with me....
Well at the risk of exposing myself to those who may be watching this site to ascertain who I really am, I feel that my TFL Bretheren who assisted me in this matter deserve to know what is happening on the Beretta Vs HCI issue. Rest assured that I have not been Lax in my duties. Unfortunately Ms Marayanne Albert received the brunt of my Ire with this whole situation. Here is the Exchange that I had with Beretta USA......
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: Maryanne
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 1999 3:32 PM
Subject: A personal request...
Ms. Albert,
I have written on a couple of occasions and I have called the Beretta Legal Dept. on several occasions. I am becoming quite disgruntled with a Beretta. As I have stated in the past I am a
LONG TIME Beretta owner, I have three currently and I am about to purchase a fourth, A Beretta INOX in either 9mm or 40 S&W. The Only Hand Gun that I have had longer is (was) my Colt King Cobra .357 Magnum, but due to some very bad decisions by Colt in recent weeks I off loaded it and it should be molten slag by now. I can only hope that Colts loss is your gain. I have long been a staunch Beretta advocate and have given you the utmost in product loyalty. So with that said I do not feel that I am out of line when I ask you to give me some feedback on what is in the works to MAKE HCI Remove the Beretta 92/96FS off of it's website?? I have read the standard blurb on your website and I was even sent that same blurb as part of a group e-mailing. It was fine back in September but what is happening now?? As a Beretta Owner (3x's over) I believe I have a right to know. Is there ANYTHING that Beretta CAN do?? Do fair use laws give them the right to use your unmistakable product while you have to sit by and watch idly? I find it odd that HCI had to pay Beretta in it's last legal battle and then uses a Beretta as a Poster child for Gun control! Tell me there isn't some Malice with intent in there somewhere? I am already demonized as a Gun owner I do not need to be further demonized because I own "the kids weapon of choice " for school disagreements that is. Is there anything you can tell me that I can pass to my fellow Beretta owners other that the company line currently posted on your website?? I would appreciate some feedback, Thank you in advance...
Take Care and God Bless
Her Response....
I have forwarded your email to Jeff Reh, our Attorney.
Maryanne
My reply...
Maryanne,
I have left him a phone message on at least two occasions, Hopefully this e-mail gets a higher priority and I will get a response. As you were or are part of the leadership forum I was rather hoping that you had something, you have been very good at responding to concerned consumers. I can appreciate leaving the legal questions to the lawyers, however in case you haven't noticed the natives grow more restless with each passing day. I see it on site after site. Again I look forward to Mr. Rehs response and thank you for all of your assistance to date. Take Care and God Bless
After 2 weeks of no response I sent this message........
Maryanne,
As I suspected Your Mr. Reh apparently gave little credence to my e-mail and chose, as I suspected he would, to completely disregard me and my questions. That is the trouble with large Corporations, you want me to buy your product and with regard to anything else concerning your company ...Butt out. I don't believe that these were part of any of the founding principles of Beretta when the company was first started and I find it unsettling that your company treats it's loyal customers with such disdain. I do not see my request as unreasonable. I have been very loyal too, and have purchased products from on 4 occasions now, no small fortune I might add ( two Beretta model 92f's, one 96f and one 84) My next purchase will be the match grade compensated barrels (conversions) for my 92's ( near future I hope). Having said that I believe that a Quality Company such as Beretta could take some time to explain the how's and the whys of HCI's continued usage of your 92/96FS as it's poster Child. Even if you have to say there is nothing within the law that can prevent HCI from using your Handgun as it's Poster Child for Gun control.
I have called on several occasions, left messages, e-mailed and all to no avail. All at my personal expense, another small fortune. As a 19 year veteran of the US military I can ill afford to spend money frivolously, especially with 4 mouths to feed. A little due consideration was all I asked. I will incur yet one more small debt as I Fax a copy of all of previous e-mails and their responses or non-responses as the case may be to Beretta international headquarters. Fortunately or unfortunately Mr. Reh's Name and yours will be mentioned prominently in the Cover letter.
If you want to be a leader you must do so from the front not from the rear, your leadership forum would imply that you are part of the leadership at Beretta, And at the risk of sounding disparaging or sarcastic I believe that it is time someone there moved up to the front ranks and takes charge of this situation.
Beretta is A quality Company with a great reputation for excellent craftsmanship and product reliability. I do not believe that my loyalties are misplaced but I do believe that a company is only as good as the people it employs and I take exception to this brush off.
Take Care and God Bless,
I then Sent the following FAX to Beretta international ( In Italy )
Dear Beretta.
Before I get into the gist of this letter let me start out by saying that I have enjoyed shooting Berettas for 15 years now. I have been a Beretta Owner formore than 10 years now , ( My first purchase was a Beretta 92fs, and I have purchased another 92 a 96fs and a model 84 since) When Finances Permit I plan
on purchasing your compensated match grade conversions for my model 92's. It is as a Loyal and Concerned Beretta Customer that I write you today. Early in September I discovered that Hand Gun Control Inc. was using your model 92/96 F as it's Poster Child for gun control on it's website. I could not believe my eyes. I sent e-mails and called Beretta USA in Maryland. I discovered that they did not know about it and would look into it. Shortly there afterwards they were inundated with phone calls and e-mails of other concerned consumers expressing their disgust that HCI was using your highly distinguishable Beretta handgun as it's poster Child for Gun Control an even implying that it was the weapon of choice for kids to settle scores at school. It is with regard to my inquiries to Beretta USA that I write this Letter. I did receive as part of a mass E-mailing a response to my initial e-mail. It read identical to the banner now currently posted on your Beretta USA website. As a Beretta owner I felt duty bound to follow up and follow through all attempts at doing so have been Largely ignored or passed off and then ignored. I have e-mailed Ms. Maryanne Albert at Beretta USA and I have called Mr. Jeff Reh on a couple of occasions trying
to ascertain just what if anything Beretta plans on doing about HCI's misuse of your famous ( Soon to be Infamous if this lunacy isn't stopped)handgun. All of which was to no avail, messages were left unreturned and e-mails left largely unanswered or passed off, and then unanswered. I am very disconcerted at the treatment I have received from A company that I have
shown a strong product loyalty to for well over 10 years now. I am of Moderate income and could purchase any number of lesser quality handguns over the years however I have chosen to save my pennies and purchase only Berettas, I have even convinced friends and family that Beretta is the only way to go. Why because Beretta is an outstanding company with a reputation for quality craftsmanship and the highest degree of product reliability. Beretta is a forward thinking company with a quality product.
Who am I?? Just an average American consumer who has placed ( hopefully not misplaced ) his Product loyalty in a Quality Company. I am an American Military Service member of over 19 years and I understand what leadership is and what it means. I understand that in the grand scheme of things I may not
be all that important. However I also know that there are thousands of Beretta consumers out there that would like to know What is Beretta doing about HCI's Misuse of it's highly recognizable pistol as it's poster child for Gun Control? Can Beretta force HCI to remove the image of the 92 F off of it's website?
Secondly why is it that the consumer, namely me at the moment, treated with such disregard when it comes to issues such as these? I believe that Professionalism is paramount in all that we do. I must say that I am astounded at the lack of it or at least the perception thereof of some of the individuals currently in the
employ of Beretta (USA). If you deem it necessary I can provide at least some of the e-mails and their responses, or the lack thereof.
Any Insight that you can give me to what Beretta is currently doing, if anything to kick HCI in the butt and make them remove my favorite Handgun and My weapon of Choice from it's website would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time and trouble Good Day and God Bless,
Sincerely
Suddenly Beretta USA woke up and here is their Tepid response.....
Sent Wed 11-10-99
Maryanne Albert in our marketing department has forwarded to me your additional inquiry (emphasis mine, ElJefe) concerning Beretta's opposition to Handgun Control, Inc.'s use of the image of a Beretta Model 92 pistol on its website. Beretta is currently engaged in discussions with the legal staff at HCI concerning this issue and is taking steps to ensure that a wrongful impression that Beretta supports the objectives of HCI not be conveyed to the public by HCI's misappropriation of our product image. We appreciate your expressions of interest in this issue and we will take into account the interest of our supporters as our actions with respect to HCI go forward.
Jeffrey K. Reh
General Counsel
Whew... For those of you who bore with me through all that Thank you
Don't get me wrong, I Love My Beretta's and I meant what I said about the Company, However I do not believe that a company should feel that it has gotten so big that it no longer has a duty to answer to the consumer at large. I do find it unfortunate that it took a harsh follow up e-mail and a FAX to the Parent company to invoke a response. I pray that this has further motivated Beretta USA to step up it's efforts. Thought that you all deserved to know!! Take Care and God BlessEl Jefe
[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited November 11, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited November 11, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by El Jefe (edited November 11, 1999).]