Beretta 92FS vs Glock 17 in the Sand Test. I finally did it.
- Thread starter Irfan
- Start date
True, the Glock's trigger mechanism can get bunged up by sand. However, it's a lot less likely than a Beretta to fail, especially if you install one of those plug thingies in your grip. Actually, from what I have been told the best gun for exposure to sand is a sloppily-fitted 1911. However, even with that there's no guarantee. Sand is very small, very hard, and gets just about everywhere inside moving parts.
Blue Duck357
New member
Only one problem with that 115. Every test comes up the same when they do it:
"The new Zander 4000 (see ad front and back cover) performed without a hitch throughout our exhuastive test. Who would have thought a pistol produced in the deepest jungles of Bornio could shoot 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards after passing through the digestive system of a mule. The fit and finish were superb and as the companies president told me during a press junket in Tahiti "We truly value our customers...." :barf:
"The new Zander 4000 (see ad front and back cover) performed without a hitch throughout our exhuastive test. Who would have thought a pistol produced in the deepest jungles of Bornio could shoot 1 1/2" groups at 25 yards after passing through the digestive system of a mule. The fit and finish were superb and as the companies president told me during a press junket in Tahiti "We truly value our customers...." :barf:
Well, I guess I’ll post the results of my own informal sand test.
Many years ago, my second year of college, I went out and bought a 92FS…mainly because if I figured it was good enough for the army, it was good enough for me. At the time, I was too naïve to know that the army equips it soldiers with weapons that are designed to malfunction at exactly the point most likely to get them killed.
I had never fired a gun before, never owned one, and had no idea how to go about finding a range. There were some sand pits located in my area however, and I decided that this would be the perfect place to go try the new gun out.
So one day I skipped a class (Mom, Dad, I swear I just don’t know why I keep failing…) and headed out into the sand pits. I parked the car and walked quite a ways, until I got to the sand wall that would serve as a backstop. I then carefully loaded the pistol, and began to squeeze the trigger and break in my new pistol.
Except out of the corner of my eye, I noticed a police officer walking towards me.
He was quite some distance away, but I was filled with a massive case of panic. Here I am, not even twenty years old, trespassing, with a loaded gun in my hands and here come the cops! Damn these guys were good!
In a panic, I dropped my never been fired Beretta into the sand. I then hurriedly picked it up, ejected the magazine (which also fell into the sand) and fumbled to eject the round (which also fell into the sand). Then, because I was flipping out, I picked both back up and put them back into the gun…and then realized what I had just done and panicked again, once again dropping the magazine into the sand, spent bullet, and then the gun, slide locked back.
Empty handed, I walked towards the officer. He walked past me, and picked up my gun, loudly berating me on my treatment of a “damn fine piece of equipment.” I explained that I didn’t want to walk towards him with a loaded gun (which earned me an expression that would curdle milk and a set of
)
He then proceeded to try and blow sand out of my gun, magazine, and everything else, and after several minutes, pronounced it hopeless. It was still soaking wet from the factory, and there was sand everywhere . He instructed me to clean it well as “It won’t fire as is” and escorted me off the property.
By this time, I was maddened with frustration. I was also stupid…I hadn’t bought a cleaning kit, and had no money to get one. “Paradise by the Dashboard Lights” sums it quite well…In a panic, I went behind my house, down a hill, and fired into the bank on the opposite side of the river.
The gun worked fine.
Long story short: Under real world conditions, I have utmost faith in my Beretta. Yes, I can and have induced a jam. It can happen, and I’m sure that blowing sand is rough on them…as it is with any gun. I'm sure anyone with a modicum of good sense and oxygen left in their lungs can fix a sand-broken Beretta.
Many years ago, my second year of college, I went out and bought a 92FS…mainly because if I figured it was good enough for the army, it was good enough for me. At the time, I was too naïve to know that the army equips it soldiers with weapons that are designed to malfunction at exactly the point most likely to get them killed.
I had never fired a gun before, never owned one, and had no idea how to go about finding a range. There were some sand pits located in my area however, and I decided that this would be the perfect place to go try the new gun out.
So one day I skipped a class (Mom, Dad, I swear I just don’t know why I keep failing…) and headed out into the sand pits. I parked the car and walked quite a ways, until I got to the sand wall that would serve as a backstop. I then carefully loaded the pistol, and began to squeeze the trigger and break in my new pistol.
Except out of the corner of my eye, I noticed a police officer walking towards me.
He was quite some distance away, but I was filled with a massive case of panic. Here I am, not even twenty years old, trespassing, with a loaded gun in my hands and here come the cops! Damn these guys were good!
In a panic, I dropped my never been fired Beretta into the sand. I then hurriedly picked it up, ejected the magazine (which also fell into the sand) and fumbled to eject the round (which also fell into the sand). Then, because I was flipping out, I picked both back up and put them back into the gun…and then realized what I had just done and panicked again, once again dropping the magazine into the sand, spent bullet, and then the gun, slide locked back.
Empty handed, I walked towards the officer. He walked past me, and picked up my gun, loudly berating me on my treatment of a “damn fine piece of equipment.” I explained that I didn’t want to walk towards him with a loaded gun (which earned me an expression that would curdle milk and a set of
) He then proceeded to try and blow sand out of my gun, magazine, and everything else, and after several minutes, pronounced it hopeless. It was still soaking wet from the factory, and there was sand everywhere . He instructed me to clean it well as “It won’t fire as is” and escorted me off the property.
By this time, I was maddened with frustration. I was also stupid…I hadn’t bought a cleaning kit, and had no money to get one. “Paradise by the Dashboard Lights” sums it quite well…In a panic, I went behind my house, down a hill, and fired into the bank on the opposite side of the river.
The gun worked fine.
Long story short: Under real world conditions, I have utmost faith in my Beretta. Yes, I can and have induced a jam. It can happen, and I’m sure that blowing sand is rough on them…as it is with any gun. I'm sure anyone with a modicum of good sense and oxygen left in their lungs can fix a sand-broken Beretta.
centralpadoug
New member
Glad to hear...I've broken a trigger spring, worn out a recoil spring, but never (excluding the trigger spring incident) had a misfire...yeah and I'm one of those who breaks the Glock rule to not use lead.
I wish the Glock had my H&K trigger...oh yeah my H&K has the H&K trigger!
I wish the Glock had my H&K trigger...oh yeah my H&K has the H&K trigger!
Irfan,
You could have spared yourself the trouble. It is obvious from the open slide design of the Beretta 92 that sand would affect it.
If the objective of your test was to prove that Glock 'rules' well I have seen Glocks that sand has caused malfunctions in too. Glocks will work when dry also while Sigs will jam when allowed to run dry. Does this mean that Glocks are better than Sigs? Maybe, maybe not!
It is what is 'best for you' that will determine what you view as good or bad in a gun!
Just to throw in a teaser:
How many of you knew that the Beretta 92 was submitted in the Austrian military test that the Glock 17 won? Remember that Glock did not enter the US military test because it did not meet the criteria of a 2nd strike capability and an external safety.
Today both the Beretta and the Glock are much improved pistols and it would be interesting to see them in another military trial.
You could have spared yourself the trouble. It is obvious from the open slide design of the Beretta 92 that sand would affect it.
If the objective of your test was to prove that Glock 'rules' well I have seen Glocks that sand has caused malfunctions in too. Glocks will work when dry also while Sigs will jam when allowed to run dry. Does this mean that Glocks are better than Sigs? Maybe, maybe not!
It is what is 'best for you' that will determine what you view as good or bad in a gun!
Just to throw in a teaser:
How many of you knew that the Beretta 92 was submitted in the Austrian military test that the Glock 17 won? Remember that Glock did not enter the US military test because it did not meet the criteria of a 2nd strike capability and an external safety.
Today both the Beretta and the Glock are much improved pistols and it would be interesting to see them in another military trial.
Irfan,
I thought you had resolved all of these Beretta vs. Glock issues?
You'll pardon me if I am a little skeptical of your "test".
Here's a lesson. . . handguns + sand = A BAD THING.
And no, GLOCKS aren't immune to the "sand" problem. I don't know of any handgun (revolver or automatic) that you could count on to work perfectly with sand.
1. GLOCK + sand
2. GLOCK + sand
After reading Larry Vickers' test I'd have to say H&Ks rule. . . or maybe not??
I'll just keep ALL my handguns away from sand as much as possible and not worry about "sand tests". . . .
Shake
I thought you had resolved all of these Beretta vs. Glock issues?
You'll pardon me if I am a little skeptical of your "test".
Here's a lesson. . . handguns + sand = A BAD THING.
And no, GLOCKS aren't immune to the "sand" problem. I don't know of any handgun (revolver or automatic) that you could count on to work perfectly with sand.
1. GLOCK + sand
2. GLOCK + sand
After reading Larry Vickers' test I'd have to say H&Ks rule. . . or maybe not??
I'll just keep ALL my handguns away from sand as much as possible and not worry about "sand tests". . . .
Shake
Frankly, I'm surprised that in Larry Vickers' test the customized 1911 came out ahead of the GI pistol. One would think that a loose pistol is better, but I guess it boils down to the reasoning that the best way to keep a gun reliable in sand is to keep the stuff out of the gun to begin with. I know that SEALS will use silicone sealer all over their M16-type rifles, including where the magazine is inserted into the mag well. After hitting the beach they'll spend some time cutting away the sealer, checking their weapons over, then it's off they go to frolick on a foreign vacation. 
Back to 1911s, it would appear that a lowered ejection port is actually a liability in some situations. I have noticed that lowering the port allows one the see the lower lugs with the slide forward. Were I to build the absolute most hostile environment-resistant 1911 I'd probably start with an older pistol, or at least one of the Series 70 repros for a base gun.
Back to 1911s, it would appear that a lowered ejection port is actually a liability in some situations. I have noticed that lowering the port allows one the see the lower lugs with the slide forward. Were I to build the absolute most hostile environment-resistant 1911 I'd probably start with an older pistol, or at least one of the Series 70 repros for a base gun.
Jamie Young
New member
I play with sand shovels and Tonka trucks in My sand box. I wouldn't even conceive of playing with a Glock or Beretta in there.
Sand is bad for any weapon. Get enough into the firing mechanism and you will have problems no matter what the weapon.
I've gotten beach sand into my Glocks many times while on the beach. Did they still work after that? I don't know. It bugged me to death to have a dirty weapon around, and I certainly wasn't going to shoot it that way!
That being said, I try to protect my carry gun as much as possible. I don't want to know if the sand, mud, grits or gorrilla dung tests passed on my gun. What I do want to know is that it will fire when I need it.
Still..it is interesting to read about other folks torturing their guns.
Good Shooting
RED
I've gotten beach sand into my Glocks many times while on the beach. Did they still work after that? I don't know. It bugged me to death to have a dirty weapon around, and I certainly wasn't going to shoot it that way!
That being said, I try to protect my carry gun as much as possible. I don't want to know if the sand, mud, grits or gorrilla dung tests passed on my gun. What I do want to know is that it will fire when I need it.
Still..it is interesting to read about other folks torturing their guns.
Good Shooting
RED
fortyfiveshooter
New member
I went back and found this that Larry Vickers posted on 1911 forum about a sand test he did, thought that you guys might like the read:
(copy from post of Larry Vickers on 1911forum)
Sand Test
Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening.
Pistols tested were; HK USP Tactical
Customized 1911
rack grade GI 1911
Glock 21
Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP.A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow;
1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed.
2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster.
3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well.
4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better.
5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better.
6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well.
Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years.
The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement.
The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read.
Hope you guys got something out of this - I did.
(copy from post of Larry Vickers on 1911forum)
Sand Test
Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening.
Pistols tested were; HK USP Tactical
Customized 1911
rack grade GI 1911
Glock 21
Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP.A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow;
1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed.
2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster.
3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well.
4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better.
5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better.
6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well.
Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years.
The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement.
The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read.
Hope you guys got something out of this - I did.
Dwight M S
New member
That's it, I'm scared now. I'm getting a beach gun.
Dwight M S
Dwight M S