Benelli owners check this out

E

expeditionx

New member
http://www.benelliusa.com/forums/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/2413.html#000006
This is unrelated to the now-sunset "assault weapon" ban. Under section 922(r) of the BATF code, there are limitations on the parts make-up of imported shotguns. If you search this forum, or the AR15 forum on the topic of M4/M1014 shotguns with collapsible stocks, pistol grips, and extended mags you'll see lots on this subject.

In the net, due to a lack of clarity and interpretation of 922(r), Benelli elected to cease all importation, marketing and sales of magazine extensions for their weapons on Nov. 2 of this year.

My perhaps over-simplified (and possibly incorrect) understanding of the code section in question prohibits the import, or assembly of imported parts into a complete weapon that has any two of the following three characteristics:

- collapsible stock
- pistol grip
- magazine capacity greater than 5 rounds

I've excerpted the text from the AR15 forum for example, as it related to specific inquiries about the M4/M1014:

A shotgun with a telescoping stock or a magazine greater than 5 rounds is prohibited from importation into the United States under the provisions of section 925(d)(3) of Title 18, United states code (U.S.C.). Assembly of such a shotgun from imported parts is prohibited under 18, U.S.C. Section 922(r). The implementing regulations in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 478, Section 478.39 (formerly Part 178, Section 178.39) prohibit assembly of such a shotgun that contains more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of the regulation. Please see the enclosed brochure for further information. Assembly of such a shotgun using 10 or less of the listed import parts is not prohibited. The shotgun is also subject to whatever State laws and local ordinances may apply.

We thank you for your inquiry and trust that the foregoing has been responsive to your request.

Sincerely yours,

(signed)
John A. Spurgeon
Chief, Firearms Programs Division

The brochure contains the following:

(c) For purposes of this section, the imported parts are:

1. Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or stampings.
2. Barrels
3. Barrel extensions
4. mounting blocks (trunnions)
5. Muzzle attachments
6. Bolts
7. Bolt carriers
8. Operating rods
9. gas pistons
10. Trigger housings
11. triggers
12. Hammers
13. Sears
14. Disconnectors
15. Buttstocks
16. Pistol grips
17. Forearms, handguards
18. Magazine bodies
19. Followers
20. Floorplates

http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/m4.tpl
Buttstocks can be changed without tools to suit your needs. Note: Civilian metal stocks are not collapsible.
 
Something funny pertaining to this, I found out that you can't have a semi auto shotgun in CA with a pistol grip and a colapsable stock, but DOJ said there is nothing against a semi auto with just the pistol grip.:rolleyes:
 
Any word on whether or not this ban will ever be lifted. I was really leaning towards the Benelli , but this may make me change that purchase decision.
 
Any word on whether or not this ban will ever be lifted. I was really leaning towards the Benelli , but this may make me change that purchase decision.
Click to expand...

The 922(r) ruling could be reversed or modified easily by the US Department of Justice. If we had an Administration that was actually as devoted to gun rights as it pretends to be, it would have been long gone.
 
Would be nice :(

It would seem the founding fathers wish for , "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." is not being upheld. :confused:
 
Pre ban HK

Brothers,

In CA. its cool to have a Pre ban HK auto w/a pistol grip and hi capacity of 9 rounds. Its true no collapsable stocks allowed on the autos. Who cares. Just get a 20g Winchester Model 1300 speed pump and put a Pachmyer pistol grip on it w/a Houge forward grip its lethal and looks great. And its completely Politicall Correct!

Laterz, S Tzu
 
Pre ban HK

Brothers,

In CA. its cool to have a Pre ban HK auto w/a pistol grip and hi capacity of 9 rounds. Its true no collapsable stocks allowed on the autos. Who cares. Just get a 20g Winchester Model 1300 speed pump and put a Pachmyer pistol grip on it w/a Houge forward grip its lethal and looks great. And its completely legal!

Laterz, S Tzu
 
Pre ban HK

Brothers,

In CA. its cool to have a Pre ban HK auto w/a pistol grip and hi capacity of 9 rounds. Its true no collapsable stocks allowed on the autos. Who cares. Just get a 20g Winchester Model 1300 speed pump and put a Pachmyer pistol grip on it w/a Houge forward grip its lethal and looks great. And its completely legal!

Laterz, S Tzu
 
As far as federal import law, forward pistol grips are considered unsporting and therefore not allowed on current imported guns. This would also follow with pre 1990 ban imports that didnt have the forward pistol grip attached before the law went into effect to grandfather the grip on the gun.

Trying to militarize an imported rifle or shotgun is futile in the eyes of the formerly democratic majority congress. The ATF stands with the law that the former congress created.
 
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There seems to be some confusion over this ... guys over at the Benelli Forum say it's not illegal to add the extension magazine. :confused:
 
I seen that on that forum. What most people dont understand is that the gun control act GCA of 1968 was set up to eliminate or restrict most imported arms. The loophole in the law allows only certain arms to be imported.

A shotgun with a telescoping stock or a magazine greater than 5 rounds is prohibited from importation into the United States under the provisions of section 925(d)(3) of Title 18, United states code (U.S.C.). Assembly of such a shotgun from imported parts is prohibited under 18, U.S.C. Section 922(r). The implementing regulations in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 478, Section 478.39 (formerly Part 178, Section 178.39) prohibit assembly of such a shotgun that contains more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of the regulation.

922 (r)
The Imported Parts Law(1990)
178.39 otherwise known as 922(r) 10 Foreign parts law on semiauto Rifles & Shotguns
http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.html
Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

You cant even import a semiauto rifle with a magazine capacity of over 10 rounds or better said a rifle that can use such a magazine. With shotguns its clear from the above that the limit is 5 rounds. Thats why most are sold like that. There are some imported for law enforcement or private security companies that will be exempted from civilian use. If the ATF changes its rule a company like Benelli would post that to make people aware. One ATF screw up was apparently with EAA in 2004. They allowed the Saiga rifles to be imported based on the fact that thay cant use magazines over 10 rounds. EAA imported 30 round 7.62x39 mags. Magazines alone were fine. The confusion came when people that owned 7.62 rifles could now insert 30 round magazines into the rifles because EAA had some kind of misunderstanding with the ATF. Several 30 rounders were sold but technically illegal to use with a non-converted saiga. The same reason sks rifles cant legally use detachable magazines. If some company screws up and sells a law enforcement only gun to civilians it is still confiscatable if law enforcement wants to. Same applies to a fully automatic machine gun. Someone sells it to you and law enforcement finds out that it wasnt transfered based on an ATF tax stamp you can be in big trouble. The worst i ever heard of something like this was in the early 1990's some MAK90s were imported with full auto receivers but were fixed as semiauto as the ATF found out they were confiscated. I know some I worked with before that had his MAK90 confiscated. They showed up at his door because the dealer had to give up the info when they showed up at the dealer. Some of those receivers were never tracked down and still circulating. Things happen but the rules dont change.
When in doubt write the ATF tech branch about whether anyone can buy an imported shotgun with a mag capacity over 5 rounds.
In the mean time heres a great forum that deals with imported shotgun issues all the time very informative.
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=2
Feel free to ask anything there.
 
Trying to militarize an imported rifle or shotgun is futile in the eyes of the formerly democratic majority congress along with Bill Clinton. The ATF stands with the law that the former congress created.
Click to expand...

The 922(r) ruling was promulgated by the ATF while Bush Sr was president. Congress at the time had nothing to do with it. The ruling is an interpretation of the 1968 GCA. Clinton was still a student when the 1968 GCA was enacted.

As an ATF ruling, the Executive could reinterpret or strike it out at any time. That is, if gun rights was really anything more than a rhetorical talking point.
 
Yes Bush Senior was the President at the time,however, congress was trying to twist his arm about all the nasty little assult type weapons being imported. Keep in mind this is the same majority congress that 3 yrs after the 1990 ban went into effect decided to push Clinton into supporting the 1993 legislation that would Ban all semiauto's with evil features in 1994 (assult weapon ban).
Bush senior had a falling out with the NRA and so nothing held back his decision to shut the mouths of the crying liberals. Mentioning Clinton because he was part of that crowd . By the way, after George Senior signed his executive order congress later carried it into law. 922 is legislative and an executive order is not. Even when Clinton banned all chinese weapons as executive order congress finalized it into law. An executive cant overturn the 1990 ban because congress turned it into law.
If it was that easy than why not strike down the whole GCA.
I have mentioned before that the 1968 GCA was the basis of for adding 922 the link i listed earlier was the from the GCA
http://www.atf.treas.gov/regulations/27cfr178.html

ATF ruling is not a law but rather what the ATF decideds internally how to interpret a law for themselves.
Rulings http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/index.htm
Mesa Im glad we got all this cleared up.

Example ruling;
ATF Rul. 2004-5
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/2004-5.htm
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has examined the 7.62mm Aircraft Machine Gun, commonly referred to as a "Minigun." The Minigun is a 36 pound, six barrel, electrically powered machinegun. It is in the U.S. military inventory and identified as the "M 134" (Army), "GAU 2B/A" (Air Force), and "GAU 17/A" (Navy). It is a lightweight and extremely reliable weapon, capable of discharging up to 6,000 rounds per minute. It has been used on helicopters, fixed-wing aircraft, and wheeled vehicles. It is highly adaptable, being used with pintle mounts, turrets, pods, and internal installations.
 
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Mentioning Clinton because he was part of that crowd just not president yet rather a senator.
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Clinton was Governor of Arkansas. He was never in the Congress.

1968 GCA was enacted by Congress. The President can't do anything about it except direct his Justice Department in how to enforce it.

Let me clarify my position on 922(r), by quoting from Survivor's SKS FAQ:

On July 6, 1989 various military style semiautomatic rifles were determined by ATF to be “non-sporting” based on a variety of features and banned from importation. The authority to impose this ban stemmed from the 1968 Gun Control Act, specifically Title 18 USC § 925(d)(3).

Shortly thereafter, various manufacturers began importing foreign parts and assembling them on locally made receivers. Congress responded in 1990 by passing new regulations. Title 18 USC § 922(r) made it illegal to build any firearm prohibited from importation as “non-sporting” under Title 18 USC § 925(d)(3). Note that only assembly is illegal—possession, transfer, etc, of such a firearm are not covered.

However, the 1990 law was so vague that in 1993 the ATF wrote regulations (178.39) that spell out the “10-or-less imported parts rule” and what “imported parts” mean. It states that only 10 imported parts are allowed in an unsporting imported firearm. This new law and regulation shows up in the 1995 Federal Firearms Guide. During the interim many rifles were built at home from imported parts without concern to parts count.

Finally on April 6, 1998, another study on what constitutes “non-sporting” firearms “result in a finding that the ability to accept a detachable large capacity magazine originally designed and produced for a military assault weapon should be added to the list of disqualifying military configuration features identified in 1989.”

One July 6, 1989 the Secretary of the Treasury used the authority delegated to him by Congress under Title 18 USC § 925(d)(3) to restricted the import of “non-sporting” firearms.
Click to expand...

So while 922 was indeed Federal legislation, the interpretation of it that determines, for example, that an extended magazine or a collapsible stock is "non-sporting", is entirely in the hands of the Justice Department.
 
Sorry he was Govenor thats right.
However a an ATF ruling is internal I just posted the link. Not an executive order.
what you just said about the 1968 GCA I just stated the president cant strike it out.
Ron Paul had been trying to get congress last year to overturn 922.
922 started out as an executive order but went to congress and became legislation. It would have been voted on to become part of the GCA code.
The link I put up about 922 is "Code of Federal Regulations
Title 27, Volume 1"
Title 27 is part of the GCA.
922 is an amended section based on congressional vote around 1993

If you follow my link to the area where the law is at the end of the list of parts that are listed
1. Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or stampings.
2. Barrels
3. Barrel extensions
4. mounting blocks (trunnions)
5. Muzzle attachments
6. Bolts
7. Bolt carriers
8. Operating rods
9. gas pistons
10. Trigger housings
11. triggers
12. Hammers
13. Sears
14. Disconnectors
15. Buttstocks
16. Pistol grips
17. Forearms, handguards
18. Magazine bodies
19. Followers
20. Floorplates

Notice the date the law was codified 1993
T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993
Congress codified it in 1993. the original executive order was around 1990.
 
Congress responded in 1990 by passing new regulations. Title 18 USC § 922(r) made it illegal to build any firearm prohibited from importation as “non-sporting” under Title 18 USC § 925(d)(3). Note that only assembly is illegal—possession, transfer, etc, of such a firearm are not covered.

However, the 1990 law was so vague that in 1993 the ATF wrote regulations (178.39) that spell out the “10-or-less imported parts rule” and what “imported parts” mean. It states that only 10 imported parts

This is what i was saying all along that congress did make 922 law.
Congress turned to the ATF in 1993 to establish the rule clearly and wrote it into law based upon what the ATF told them. However an ATF ruling by its self like whether to allow Thompson Center to sell parts in a kit that could be assembled into a short barrel rifle would be non-law ruling.
 
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