I don't have any examples, but a friend of mine who has some extra cash, time to burn, and some mechanical aptitude would like to convert some cheap box-mag fed semi-auto shotgun to a belt-feed. I'm curious what the legality of this is, and what it would take to make it not any sort of class III weapon. I heard something about limiting it to 20 rounds per minute, but that sounds odd, and damn near impossible to engineer something as slow as a 3-second load cycle, so I'm skeptical about the veracity of this. Any ideas, knowledge, or URLs toward...well...really anything informing me more about the subject would be appreciated. Thanks!
Belt-fed shotguns...Legal?
- Thread starter TreeSquid
- Start date
Semi-auto only. Now that the ban is passed, the belt isn't really a problem. Just make sure you have the barrel lenth and the other stuff required for shotguns. You might need the licenses for manufacturing guns.
On full auto, it would shoot fast enough to melt plastic cartridges. I don't know how paper would work, but they do make solid brass shells.
On full auto, it would shoot fast enough to melt plastic cartridges. I don't know how paper would work, but they do make solid brass shells.
cheap box-fed shotgun
Something like an eaa sporter or saiga 12 are box-fed semi-autos under $400. Under $300, even, sometimes. Since there are belt-fed AK derivatives out there, my friend figured there's probably a way to make an AK-based shotgun that's belt-fed. Anyway, thanks for your help!
Something like an eaa sporter or saiga 12 are box-fed semi-autos under $400. Under $300, even, sometimes. Since there are belt-fed AK derivatives out there, my friend figured there's probably a way to make an AK-based shotgun that's belt-fed. Anyway, thanks for your help!
The links are shaped like a "3" in cross section. One side is a large tab, and the other is two small ones, that fit around the cartridge. They snap onto the rounds. That's one way to do it at least. For this guy, I'd suggest he use a cloth belt, it's a bit cheaper I think, as well as easier to reload.
How exactly would this conversion work?
How exactly would this conversion work?
Disintegrating link belts work kinda like a bicycle chain.
The round is the "pin" that is held by the 2 hooks of one and the single hook of the next. The belt goes into the feed tray "brass to the grass" with the links on top, the bolt slides forward, and pushes the round forward out of the links into the chamber. There is then nothing holding the link to the right of the chamber to the rest of the belt (the 'pin' is gone) so it is pushed out of the tray after the weapon cycles and the belt advances to the next round.
The one I had trouble with was how the cloth belts worked, til I got to cycle an old MG
The round is the "pin" that is held by the 2 hooks of one and the single hook of the next. The belt goes into the feed tray "brass to the grass" with the links on top, the bolt slides forward, and pushes the round forward out of the links into the chamber. There is then nothing holding the link to the right of the chamber to the rest of the belt (the 'pin' is gone) so it is pushed out of the tray after the weapon cycles and the belt advances to the next round.
The one I had trouble with was how the cloth belts worked, til I got to cycle an old MG
Denny Hansen
Staff Emeritus
I'd have your friend with BATF in regards to the legal aspects, especially with imported semi-autos like the Saiga. IIRC the sunset of the AWB did not affect imported semi-autos, and in respect to shotguns BATF believes that anything over five rounds no longer constitutes a "sporting" weapon.
Denny
Denny
...now how is the belt 'pulled' through the action? Also, I thought some disintegrating link belts were smaller at the front, thus preventing the shell from being pushed forward, out of the belt. In the few link examples I've seen, the link is not deformed from the process... 
...thanks for satisfying my mechanical curiosity guys
... (Mech. Eng. in training)
...thanks for satisfying my mechanical curiosity guys
... (Mech. Eng. in training)I found this site with some good text and pictures. It shows links like you mention, modern US stuff operates as I've described.
In the M249 the feed tray (door that opens on top to load the belt) has a pawl that advances the belt (pulls it through). It is actuated by a roller tab on top of the bolt sliding forward and back down a pivoting keyway, shoving the rounds through as the weapon cycles.
At least thats how I figure it works, from assembly/disassembly. Is there an 0331 in the house?
good basic description of feed mechanisms
This is 7.62 belted ammo.
In the M249 the feed tray (door that opens on top to load the belt) has a pawl that advances the belt (pulls it through). It is actuated by a roller tab on top of the bolt sliding forward and back down a pivoting keyway, shoving the rounds through as the weapon cycles.
At least thats how I figure it works, from assembly/disassembly. Is there an 0331 in the house?
good basic description of feed mechanisms
This is 7.62 belted ammo.
AutoCrash: The metal belt links that are smaller at the front are designed to have the round pulled backwards out of the belt while the bolt is moving to the open position, the same way cloth belt systems work. Example: Browing M2. The ones that are shaped like a "3" are designed with a gap on one side so that the rounds can simply be pushed forward into the chamber the same way they are out of a magazine. Example: (Colt?) M60. You'd have to have the backwards-pull system on a belt-fed shotgun since the shells are rimmed.
bullfrog99
New member
The Saiga is a cheap box fed shotgun.
I went to a tech museum in Germany while stationed there that had alot of military stuff. Several of the machine guns on display were belt fed, but the belt was made of metal links wired together. I can't remember how the cartridges were attached, but it was metal links, that didn't decintigrate.