Being a hero....

S

Stupid

New member
What are the subsequential liability of being a hero?

Scenario 1 - some thug broke in your house with a knife and you pulled your AR15 and blew 5 holes out of him.

Scenario 2 - some nut started shooting in front of Kroger, and you heard the shot and drove closer and shot the guy with your AR15.

Scenario 3 - Unfortunately in Scenario 2, you missed a few shots and one of them killed a bystander.
 
These are not so stupid questions from "Stupid"...

Your legal liabilities, both criminal and civil, will vary from state to state.

Scenario 1
Depending on your state laws, you may be prosecuted or not. If your state laws places a duty to retreat and you do not, you'd best show some kind of exigent circumstances -- like the inability to evacuate children or family members from harm's way. In many states without such a restriction, it will depend on some of the circumstances of the actual shooting, such as you firing through a door or shooting the perp in the back.

Scenario 2:
Besides spending a long time explaining to the cops why you were driving around with an AR in your car, plan on explaining just how you knew the person was a homicidal criminal or not just shooting out the windows. There'll be a lot of questions about your decision making process. You'll be questioned about why you didn't try to prevent others from entering the area or use your vehicle to shield those coming out of the other entrance instead of shooting the guy. A lot will depend on the details -- how many shots were fired before you capped the guy? How many people were down that you could see? Did you fire one shot or empty the magazine at him? Were you in immediate danger yourself? Did you put yourself in danger deliberately (by driving closer)? If you're charged you may face charges ranging from manslaughter to murder.

Scenario 3:
Four words: Your bullet - your responsibility. Have lots of liability insurance. Have both a good criminal and good civil attorney picked out and on retainer. Plan on dealing with the aftermath for the next 2 years. Plan on defending against a "negligent manslaughter" or a "reckless homicide" case.

Also plan on being sued by the perp's family for depriving them of their "loved" one that simply didn't take his medication that day -- or who couldn't afford it's high price or was simply "venting" over being fired by the store.

Remember the first rule for dealing with the aftermath of any shooting scenario is to give as little information to the PD as you can and let your lawyer handle the questioning.
 
Say what?

Hmmmmm............ :confused:


Hero: "Websters"

*of great strength and courage, favored by the gods and in part descended from them, often regarded as half-god and worshiped after his death.....

*admired for courage, nobility, or exploits, esp. in war......



I think in most cases a hero never asked for a title and wouldn't want to be called one.....

Someone trying to become one, might have a death wish and could likely get others hurt in his or her quest....

Could be a costly way to live a daily life........
 
Only speaking locally:

1. The cops show up, exclaim "Damn that sure made a mess, what ammo you using? Nice rifle. Medics will be here shortly to pick this thing up. Everybody OK? How many rds you fire? OK, looked like nothing exited the property. Could you run us through what happened? OK, sounds good. Want some coffee? Did you know most homeowner's policies cover biological cleanup like this, you might wanna call your agent tomorrow. OK, please read this, that look like how it happened? OK, sign the bottom. Sure you don't want some coffee? OK, have a nice night."

2. The cops show up and assuming you are not standing there brandishing like some Rambo dumbass, ask very similar questions, with the additional question of "Man, it must have been tough taking that thing from the trunk and getting it loaded, right?"

3. Now you're kinda SOL. Lawyers involved, probably criminal prosecution, up to the grand jury and the publicity junky states attorney as to whether it goes to court. Probably a civil trial, who knows if that'll go anywhere, depending on how the media and your lawyer spins it, can go either way.

That's local, we have decent folks living around here, and we also have 95% decent cops who hate criminals and like it when the public gets involved making criminals suffer. If you get that 5% moron officer, chances are 98%+ that his boss is smart enough to keep the problem small and private and support the homeowner vice supporting some scumbag criminal. S/F....Ken M
 
So the law really encourage us - citizens with good hearts to just watch the show down and be a good witness to brag, aftermath, how the bad guys did this and that and f this and f that while we standed there and did nothing even though we had the capability.

Love it!
 
Stupid: Well, I certainly don't know what exactly would happen, nor do I fully understand your scenarios... but you seem to be suprised that a citizen could be liable for shooting innocent people while they were shooting at a criminal? My understanding is that the police are liable for the very same thing - and in my mind at least, it makes no sense to give ordinary citizens greater freedom to use force than law officers.
 
Scenario 3 is the only one where I'd see a significant legal problem in this area. There's no duty to retreat from my home in this state which covers scenario 1, and assuming other people are in danger in scenario 2 and are unable to retreat, then I'm under no such obligation myself.
 
I've thought about this a fair bit myself and I've come to the following conclusion. Park at a comfortable distance, calmly load your rifle. Calmly acquire the target, be aware of what you'll hit if you miss. Wait for the right moment, and fire.

Take your time, do it right the first time. Its likely to only take 2-3 rounds.
 
S1 and S2 are non-starters in my locale. S3 would be an issue if I had overpenetration. I would have fired once when I decided on the shoot/don't shoot process. There would have not been rounds fired, by me. I would expect criminal and civil torts due to the killing of an IB.
 
Scenario 1 - Yes officer, I could not retreat. I tried to escape, fortunately he trapped me close to my AR, and me being in fear for my life I just loaded a magazine and shot him.

Scenario 2 - I was never there. Excuse me while I go clean my rifle bore with a steel brush...


Scenario 3 - Always know your backstop. Aim small, miss small.
 
Usually I don't like to play these games (the what if's).

On #3 though I have a question. Let's take the two snipers that they finally caught. Lets say on their first shooting, someone saw the muzzle flash, pulled out (whatever rifle) and fired toward the muzzle flash.

You hit and kill what's his name in the trunk but one of your shots also hit another (innocent), and kills them.

Now, you just saved all the others, including that little boy (that thankfully lived), that would have been killed or wounded in the future if you hadn't done anything.

You did take an innocent life though.

*Yes, playing devils advocate here.

Wayne
 
I never really understood that "Aim small miss small" quote..

Wouldnt aiming at a smaller target make it harder to hit it and thus increasing the chance of a miss? Maybe im just misunderstanding this quote, feel free to explain it to me.
 
Massen.

If you were to aim for a button on his shirt and you missed the button but hit very near to it that would be a very good shot.

But if you said to yourself 'all i have to do is hit him an the abdomen' your more likely to get a bad shot.

Just make sure you pick the right button .

Thanks
Bob
 
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