Beginning 1000 yd Rifle - Help me choose

W

Wildernesshunter

New member
Gang, I have narrowed my search for an entry level, 1000yd rifle down to two. Here are the reasons....

1. I already have the reloading dies.
2. I already have a lot of brass.
3. Additional brass and ammo will be affordable.
4. They are available in an affordable shooting platform.
5. Recoil will be tolerable for accuracy.

The rounds????

243 Winchester
30'06 SPRG

The gun.....Remington 700 in either Long Range or Varmint.

I will want to shoot the heaviest bullet that the twist will allow. The '06 is in a 26" heavy barrel in a 1:10 twist. the 243 is also in a heavy barrel in a 1:9.125 twist.

I know that the 243 barrel will burn out quicker, but not a consideration for this purchase.

In those two guns, with those twist rates.....for a 1000 yard gun.....which would you choose?


Thanks for the advice.
 
Either will work, but I give the edge to the 243.

Yes the 243 has a reputation of burning out barrels, maybe, but understand that velocity does not mean accuracy.

No law says the 243 has to be loaded to max. Reduce the powder charge and your barrel will last longer.

I shoot 87 gr. bergers at a modist 3000 fps MV. Its not hard on barrels.

The 243 will be cheaper to load for and the mild recoil will allow more rounds down range with less fatigue.

But the '06 will works also.

In my loadings, the '06 will drop about 38 inches more at 1000 yards then the 243. (based on a 100 yard zero)

Your loading may very.
 
The .243 barrel will not burn out any quicker than anything else. That's an internet myth.
"...shoot the heaviest bullet that the twist..." Isn't necessarily the best bullet. A 1 in 10 '06 will shoot 220's all day. There are no 220 grain match bullets though. Past 600, you want 175 or 190 grain match bullets. Mind you, I wouldn't want either of 'em for 1,000 yard shooting myself.
An M700 is an M700. Difference between a Long Range and a Varmint is the stock. The LR's is a Bell and Carson with pillar bedding. The Varmint is Remington's generic synthetic. Odd that it's MSRP is $129 higher.
A Hornady factory 168 grain A-Max (don't think anybody loads a heavier match bullet) '06 will drop 49.8" at 500 when sighted in at 200. Nobody loads match bullets in .243. However, one of the 115 grain DTAC's (apparently gone) drops about 60" at 600 sighted in at 100. Not much data on-line using other match bullets.
 
As stated above both are more than capable but I would choose the .243. Cheaper to reload and easier on the shoulder means you'll shoot more, and long range shooting involves lots of practice.
 
I'm presuming your intended use is targetry. If you're hunting game, I think the heavier bullets of the 30-06 would be preferable, for ensuring a humane hunt.
 
If those are your only choices and you do intend to shoot at 1000 yards then the 30-06 wins ballistics wise, hands-down. At 1000 yards heavy bullets are the ticket and the twist rate of your barrel determines what bullet weight you can shoot.

With a 9.125 twist you would be limited to 90gr bullets or lighter. Even if you were able to push a 90gr Berger BT to 3200 fps in a 26 inch barrel your velocity at 1000 yards would be Mach 1.147 and a wind drift of 9 MOA (in a 10 mph crosswind).

Compare that to shooting the 200gr Berger Hybrids at 2660fps out of the 30-06. It would have a velocity of Mach 1.287 at 1000 yards and a wind drift of 6.7 MOA (in a 10 mph crosswind).

2.3 MOA wind drift at 1000 yards is 23 inches so the 243 would be at a huge disadvantage compared to the 30-06.

If the 243 was an 8 twist you would be able to shoot the Berger 105s and if you shoot those at 3050 fps it almost matches the 200gr hybrids in terms of wind drift.

There are other cartridges much better suited for 1000 yards but between the options you present, the 30-06 would be the better choice. If the 243 was an 8 twist it would have been closer to a toss-up.
 
T. O'Heir said:
There are no 220 grain match bullets though.
Click to expand...

Sure there are. There are a bunch of them.

There is a 220gr SMK, plus about a dozen other options between 210 and 240 grains. All of them Match bullets.
 
Honestly gang.....recoil is also not an issue with me. I have been able to calmly pull the trigger on big magnums and shoot them all day. My 6'5", 280lb frame with a ton of muscle mass.....allows me to "absorb" with calm.

I am so close to proverbially pulling the trigger on the Savage 112, 338 LM...... but a box is $70........

I'm am an old '06 fan and leaning that way....above the 243.

Big, heavy bullets are KING with me..... Would love to show up at a 1,000 yard shoot and kick butt with an '06.

But I am asking about the 243, as the last 1,000 yard, national competition was dominated by the .243's......not the 6.5's.....the .243's.....
 
The 6br Norma is dominating the matches in this area. The 260 rem is winning on windy days.The 243 win is definitely capable, but it is only competitive for 400 to 600 shots per barrel.
 
400-600 shots per barrel.....ridiculous..... where's your data?

Maybe a custom, full auto......blasting 100 rounds per mag.


For the rest of the gang.... I shoot three rounds, sent the gun aside....shoot another gun.....3 rounds.....put it aside....shoot another gun.....etc.

My barrels last a while......
 
But I am asking about the 243, as the last 1,000 yard, national competition was dominated by the .243's......not the 6.5's.....the .243's.....
Click to expand...

Assuming you are referring to 1000 yard benchrest matches, the 6mm cartridges commonly used are 6mm Dasher and 6X-47, not .243 Winchester. Same size projectile but different cartridge. The projectiles used for 6mm cartridges at 1000 yards are 105s, 108s and 115s (DTACs), none of which will stabilize in a 9.125 twist.

If you can get a rifle with a 1-8 or 1-7.5 twist and shoot the 115 DTACs, the .243 winchester will look much more attractive though it depends a lot on the discipline. In 1000 yard benchrest, 6mm Dasher does very well. 1000 yard F-class is more diversified with 6.5 and 7mm being the most prolific winning calibers.
 
Assuming you are referring to 1000 yard benchrest matches, the 6mm cartridges commonly used are 6mm Dasher and 6X-47, not .243 Winchester. Same size projectile but different cartridge. The projectiles used for 6mm cartridges at 1000 yards are 105s, 108s and 115s (DTACs), none of which will stabilize in a 9.125 twist.

If you can get a rifle with a 1-8 or 1-7.5 twist and shoot the 115 DTACs, the .243 winchester will look much more attractive though it depends a lot on the discipline. In 1000 yard benchrest, 6mm Dasher does very well. 1000 yard F-class is more diversified with 6.5 and 7mm being the most prolific winning calibers.


Exactly my question, regarding the gun I am looking at. I think the only way to get an awesome 243 gun is to get a custom rig.

On the other hand....the 1:10 twist 30'06 should handle high BC bullets....right?
 
On the other hand....the 1:10 twist 30'06 should handle high BC bullets....right?
Click to expand...

Yes, with the 10 twist you will be able to shoot 200s, 210s and also the 215s. The 215s will have a slight BC reduction with a 10 twist, but many shooters do well with 215s using 10-twist at 1000 yards nevertheless. The 230s would be better off with a 9 twist.
 
My data is seeing how long the rifles can be competitive in matches. I have built them, I know. This is not a hunting rifle, it is a bench gun. When your group opens up by a quarter minute, you are no longer competitive. I built a 6x284 that was shot out after load development plus two matches. Find out for yourself.
 
Both will go 3000 fps with deer killing grain, both faster for varmit loads.

To me it is what do you want to do with it. 30-06 is better hunting round.

I am an Elmer Keith fan, not Jack O'Connor, so I go big.
 
Either will do the job.

But, JMO- I think you're making a mistake in limiting your new rifle selection to the chamberings you have "on hand".

What's a set of dies (even precision ones)and some brass cost, over the long term it's peanuts.

Pick the chambering best suited to your intended purpose- then get some dies and brass.

Again...JMO, YMMV.
 
1000 yds

tobnpr is right on.

Dies are not expensive and should not limit your choices.

Many, many years ago I had much success using a 98K mauser action, a
26 inch heavy barrel and a walnut/maple benchrest stock firing 6mm Remington.

If I had to do it again a better round would have been the 6 Dasher, but then again, that round was not around back then.

Good luck!
 
Once I started reloading, I didn't think about other guns as much. But as said, dies really are not that much. You could say you have alot of brass on hand. But components are consumed shooting. Brass a little slower.

Some of the fun of reloading is trying new stuff.
 
One thing I did not mention..... I own a Savage Model 12 in a .223. Its a 26" heavy barrel with a 6-18x Bushnell that can easily reach 600-800 yards.....maybe a 1k, but I haven't shot it that far. With further thought, I decided that my next gun need to both do 1k well.....but also be able to play ball at a mile.

I've been reading and reading and reading....article after article on the web from ELR competitors and shooting journalists. I then took the advice from one of you above......don't let my brass and dies pigeon hole me.

So, I made a decision about 30 minutes ago and ordered my gun.

First was the challenge to find an "over the counter" shooter, that would have the right twist that would allow for long, heavy bullets in a particular caliber. That right there virtually eliminated the .243 (they favor the loose twists and the little varmint bullets).

The second challenge was my own mentality. I wanted a long shooter that would have reasonable recoil. After a lot of reading, the ole '06 was simply not going to be able to grow with me and my desire to go really long. Nearly every article urged me to go with the 300 Win Mag.

Then I watched this little jewel from Mark and Sam, the 'Down Under' shooter and spotter that are phenomenal...... Over 2,300 yards with both a 7mm RM and a 300 WM.

Mark and Sam Shooting 2,300+ Yards

Therefore, choosing the 7mm Rem Mag was a no brainer. Similar performance, but the difference in less powder and pushing a 180gr bullet vs a 230gr bullet.....with that lesser amount of recoil.

I purchased the Remington 700 Long Range with the Bell & Carlson M40 Stock and the newly designed X-Mark Trigger (the trigger was recalled last year and current guns have the new one). I really tried to buy local, and they had a phenomenal model in stainless on the shelf, but they would not budge off the $800 price tag (I would also have to eat $65 in sales tax). Therefore Buds Gun Shop got my business for over $150 less.

I can't wait to get the gun to the range and it should be at my local FFL in about a week. I know this isn't a $4k custom gun, but it should provide me some pleasure in getting started.

Now to some optics.......




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