Beginner Shooter, 2nd Range Session Groupings

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pafc

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I took my Beretta M9 to the range this morning for the 2nd time. Put 100 rounds through it with varying success. Below are the best groupings I got. 7 yards, 15 rounds apiece.

Is this to be expected from a beginner? Oddly, it seems like I have a natural tendency to pull the gun to the left when I squeeze the trigger. Is that common? Thoughts and comments would be appreciated. :D

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Doesn't look too bad for a new shooter. Yes, it is very common for new right handed shooter to shoot to the left and often low and left.

Try to check to see if you are jerking the trigger. Dry fire practice is very helpful. Work on both your double action and single action pulls until you can go through the entire trigger press without altering the sight picture. Having someone watch you shoot is often helpful as they might see you are jerking the trigger even when you think you are not. You can also play a little trick on yourself by putting a stray snap cap or dummy round in each magazine in a different position, then shuffling the mags so you don't know when the dummy is coming up. If you flinch while dropping the hammer on a dummy round, it will be very obvious.

If you don't think you are jerking the trigger, try altering the position of your finger on the trigger. Sometimes a right-handed shooter using just the very tip of the trigger finger will push the pistol to the left during the trigger press. Conversely, a left-handed shooter using too much finger on the trigger might pull the pistol to the left.

Also make sure your grip on the pistol is quite firm including the support hand. Different expert shooters have somewhat different recommendations but I usually try to exert the same amount of force with both hands with some forward pressure on the shooting hand and some rearward pressure on the support hand to "lock" the pistol in. A right handed shooter with a weak support hand grip will often shoot left.
 
You're doing good, let us know when all 100 rounds look like the first target.

Don't jerk the trigger, give a fast, sustained squeeze. Your stance is important, work on the diamond pattern Weaver stance, you need to be there instinctively.

If your groups get worse towards the end of your 100 round session, you're getting tired. Drop to a 50 round session and more often.
 
Great tips, thanks. I've heard it helps to "lock" the wrists, but I'm not sure what that means. I notice that when I really squeeze and flex the wrist of my support arm, the gun jumps a lot less from the recoil.
 
I think first the most important thing for you as a new shooter will be to focus on safety and to seek knowledge. Remember to when you train to be serious and safe, but also enjoy your experiences. There are tons of dry fire/pistol manipulation excercises you can do to familiarize your muscle memory. Find a stance that works for you (I prefer to be square to my target with an isosceles stance) and that you are comfortable with and will allow you good alignment or ergonomics. At first it is great to get out and test your equipment and get some time behind the trigger. Your groups look good enough to pass that step but remember to ingrain the basics and fundamentals. It is also good to have an agenda while training. For example before you go have a plan. Maximize your Ammo by repetition. Don't load a full magazine and empty it fast. Start with the gun static (in a holster or on a bench) draw,grip, sight alignment..Pause and really focus on a taking up any slack on the trigger, once resistance is met pull that trigger straight to the rear. Remember: slow is smooth, smooth is fast, fast is deadly. Take a Sharpie and draw a 2" circle on your target and try to keep all shots slow and calculated inside. Also challenge yourself and try a 3" at 15 yards. Understand how YOU shoot. And analyze each shot and breakdown the mechanics of your individual routine before a firing pin launches towards the primer. You have natural ability, but if you continuously train at short range you will not progress as quickly as if you train at 15-25. If you shoot well here you can hit anything within 10 yards easy. Seek as much advice from others as possible and keep pushing that distance out with more and more trigger time. Just keep in mind from 25-50 yards your front sight will likely block a majority of your target. But this is important to understand what kind of 'hold' you need on your sights as this will change for each firearm, ballistic trajectory and tendencies of different types of barrel rifling. Stay safe! Have a ball! Set goals and seek training.

Remember no matter how content you become and how much you learn the world is always evolving and there are new things to learn and sometimes it may be from people you would not expect. *side not example, my father was a collegiate track athlete and ironically the man he learned the most from about form and technique was a paraplegic man in a wheelchair*
 
Really good for a new shooter. Nobody was born as a perfect shot, but talent differs. I have two ends of the scale in my family ;)

When I started my wife on an airgun, she missed, at 8 yards, an A4 paper sheet target. My daughter could group as well as you did on the first try, and shoot two handed as well as I can shoot onehanded.

Then again, one of them is more prone to listening to instructions ;)
 
I rather like this Shannon Smith video on semi-automatic pistol grip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJrA7wMXuuQ

Shannon discusses rolling the support hand wrist forward and locking it into position in some detail. The thumbs forward, thumb-over-thumb grip demonstrated is not the only acceptable grip but it has become the dominant method.

Your M9 and the Glock17 shown in the video both have a "combat" trigger guard. The concave front profile of the trigger guard and the checkering are there to provide an alternative position for the index finger of the support hand. Some people with long fingers like to wrap the support hand index finger around the front of the trigger guard instead of below it. I have tried that a bit but I feel it prevents me from rolling the support hand wrist forward into the locked position so I don't like it as much. But it is certainly something you can experiment with.

The Beretta M9 with stock grip panels has a pretty thick grip. For some people with less than average size hands and fingers it is too thick. If you sense that you are having some difficulty due to the thickness of the grip, you could consider buying a thinner set of grips, for example the ultra-thin G10 grips sold by Wilson Combat.
 
That was a great video, thanks. He gives an excellent demonstration of what it means to lock the wrist.

Frontier4, thanks for the tips. Is it better then to start increasing my target instead of focusing on 7 yards? What is a reasonable distance and expected result?
 
Thats a very respectable grouping. Keep in mind that the standard is keeping it within an 8" circle, so you are doing fine.

One question though, what are you going for? Bullseye shooting or combat shooting? For the longest time when I started out, I focused on bullseye shooting. I would take my time between shots and try to get every shot dead center. Then I realized that I will never, ever need to shoot a squirrel's eye out.
 
Rudeguy said:
Then I realized that I will never, ever need to shoot a squirrel's eye out.
Click to expand...

That may be true, but having a strong foundation in the fundamentals is extremely important no matter which type of shooting you pursue. Develop that strong foundation, and the shooting world's your oyster. Blow it off, though, and you'll struggle and plateau in every discipline you shoot.

One recommendation for the OP is to use a bullseye-type target (sized appropriate for the distance) when shooting groups, rather than silhouettes. The latter don't give you a very precise aim point.

When selecting bullseye-type targets, I'd also recommend against using ShootNCs, as they tempt you to peek at the target between shots, which is a bad habit and a real accuracy killer.
 
My method for practicing the fundamentals is to try to consistently hit a relatively small target at longer distances.
For handguns, that's a target no larger than a clay bird, (or smaller), at the maximum range distance to the dirt backstop.
At our local outdoor handgun range, that's 50 yards.
The misses are easy to see and hitting the target is very gratifying.
Saves a lot of walking, too.
 
MrBorland -- it's interesting that you say to resist the urge to peek at the target between shots. That's all I do, and then try to correct my miss on the next shot. For example, if I see that I'm hitting low on the target I'll try to aim a little higher. Now I realize that I'm not doing myself any favors, because if I'm hitting low it's more likely to be a deficiency in shooting instead of aiming.

So smaller bullseye targets at longer range than 7 yards seems to be the consensus opinion for practice drills.
 
pafc said:
Now I realize that I'm not doing myself any favors, because if I'm hitting low it's more likely to be a deficiency in shooting instead of aiming.
Click to expand...

Yup, you got it. Peeking at the target's a good way to ruin a good group as well. :rolleyes: Unfortunately, it's a tough habit to break.

pafc said:
So smaller bullseye targets at longer range than 7 yards seems to be the consensus opinion for practice drills.
Click to expand...

I'd recommend anywhere between 50' and 25 yards. And use a target that's scaled correctly - generally a black bull that's 2" in diameter for every 10 yards. The easiest is to figure out which distance you'll shoot, then order some NRA pistol targets for that distance (e.g. NRA B-3 @ 50'). You might also be able to find some free printable versions.
 
you are doing very well. I read too much and messed with success when I was @ your stage. Read the mrine and army manuals and did the death grip thing.

then I read"perfect pistol shot" by A league( on amazon). really helped me sort out what I neede d to do

good stance--a modified weaver/ isosclese
use of the support hand--not the shooting hand to support and stabilize the gun(helps to get rid of that left pull you speak of)

extreme focus on the top of the front sight and a long slow trigger push--it all comes together with practice(live fire and dry fire--and I MEAN a lot)
and follow through

this book is for the marksman in you. In self defense will we will all squeeze hard, focus (a bit) on the perp mor e than the front sight. but that is a different part of shooting. not marksman style =more holes th e better(IMHO)

good luck. keep up the good work
 
I used to exclusively use downloaded targets from the web and print them out.
But when my last printer died and thinking about the cost of ink cartridges, I decided on a different approach for this kind of practice.
Cutting out templates of circles and squares from thin cardboard, and making simple targets on plain paper with marker pens, proved simple and cheap.
Squares are easier to make, especially with the small sizes.
Just a thought.
 
I used to exclusively use downloaded targets from the web and print them out.
But when my last printer died and thinking about the cost of ink cartridges, I decided on a different approach for this kind of practice.
Cutting out templates of circles and squares from thin cardboard, and making simple targets on plain paper with marker pens, proved simple and cheap.
Squares are easier to make, especially with the small sizes.
Just a thought.
Click to expand...

I used to print all of mine as well but these days I simply use recycled cardboard from boxes I get things shipped to me in and a can of black spray paint. I can out what ever sized dot I want and it costs me nothing but the $2 can of paint.

I like to make smaller dots with the idea of aiming small missing small. With new shooters I use larger dots and targets because they need them. LOL
 
And one day, you might make a modernistic masterpiece doing that.
Mine would only appeal to outdated cubist movement enthusiasts.
 
Modernist, Orphist, Futurist, Constructionist, Cubist... The "style" in which you "paint the picture" on your target only matters so much. At the end of the day, your goal is to leave your aggressor feeling like a Picasso image, or some unfortunate soul in a Dali painting.

One drill that the OP might find instructive is to hold the pistol at low-ready, raise the pistol so that the eye catches the front sight, fire 2 shots, and return to low-ready. The shooter should remind himself that their eyesight MUST focus on the front sight, and nothing else. Try doing this 5 times in a row, and be honest with yourself about how well you focused on the front sight. Generally, group size will shrink as more attention is paid to the front sight.

Judging from the targets, the OP is doing all or most things correctly, and the finer points will come with the passage of time. You might also want to limit your range time to around 2 hours, at least initially. Concentrating on shooting a pistol well can be mentally exhausting. Some people won't fire 50 rounds in 2 hours, while others will burn through 100 or more.

Firing 40 rounds, all in four very tight 10-shot groups is better training than firing 100 rounds in 10-shot groups that cannot be covered by a hubcap. Once the capacity to shoot accurately on demand has been obtained, it can then be balanced against shooting faster, for best effect.
 
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