Beginner reloading

T

Taz_gerstman

Inactive
Good morning everyone. I am new to this site so thank you for providing me with your input in regards to my thread subject. I have thought about starting my own reloading setup in my shop. Primarily this would be for .308 and .300 win mag rifles. Currently I have a friend who is doing a few reloads for me so I will be able to work out some issues upfront like what loads my rifles really like. He doesn’t charge me much but sometimes I question his abilities meaning once he gets it in his head that one particular item is the best or so he thinks it is then his horse blinders are on and he doesn’t look at the advantages of changing things up to see if you can optimize a setup. I can also learn from him the basics of the loading process or steps but I need to know from all of you what do you think would be the best equipment to use and why. Now I am not hung up on one particular brand but it would be nice to find a brand that is of good quality and performs well and is easy to find accessories for i.e hornady. Keep in mind I am a beginner so I don’t need anything to complicated just yet. So just pour in your info. Thanks. Anything from powders to primers to bullets etc. thanks
 
Welcome to the wonderful, oft confusing and frustrating world of reloading. Before you buy any equipment get a copy of The ABCs of Reloading. It will not only tell you how to reload, but explain components and equipment needed. As Dale mentioned there are stickies available on almost every reloading forum about getting started. There are whole lists of equipment needed and if you ask a question on a forum on "what do I need...?", your answers will be 99% personal opinions, mostly what the poster uses. Not necessarily a bad thing, sorta like a Ford vs. Chevy discussion. There is only one equipment manufacturer that makes poor equipment (no it's not Lee); Smart Reloader. Any equipment you get today, and of the name brands, will prolly last a lifetime with minimal care. Also, think about the need for some items, as a lot are "nice to have" but not absolutely necessary (I have been reloading 30+ years and never trimmed a revolver case, nor swaged any primer pockets. I reloaded 12 years before I got a tumbler and made good safe ammo with no ruined dies and I could spot any defects. I just wiped the case with a solvent dampened rag as I inspected it.). New reloaders can get swamped with suggestions for "getting started" equipment and a lot may not be necessary. K.I.S.S.

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...
 
If I were asked to outfit a bench for someone given the criteria you listed, these are the items I would select:

Lee Classic Turret press
Quality beam scale (RCBS 505 or equivalent, most are made by Ohaus and re-branded, any name brand is fine)
Lyman 55 powder measure
Lee 3-die set that includes collet neck-only size die
Simple dial caliper, needn't be hyper expensive

It gets a little sticky when figuring out tools to trim brass. For bottle neck rifle, you will eventually HAVE to trim, and trimming basically sucks. It can suck a little less when you throw (seemingly exorbitant) money at tools for trimming.

I would also recommend a very basic rotary tumbler, simple ground corncob and dry tumbling only. Some may say that tumbling isn't necessary but this stuff is filthy and clean brass will enrich the experience in multiple ways.
 
Speaking of trimming has anyone used that Lee trimmer? Other than needing a new trimmer for each cartridge, sounds kind of cool. Been using an RCBS trimmer for more years than I can remember!
 
I went backwards but not an issue. I learned on a progressive press, I have a single stage and a turret. My bench is functional and I load my calibers with what works. Get books and read a lot.

Thewelshm
 
Sevens has nailed it. Great start that will last a long time and do everything you need to do. I would add one thing though, a good quality hand primer for priming.
 
Speaking of trimming has anyone used that Lee trimmer? Other than needing a new trimmer for each cartridge, sounds kind of cool. Been using an RCBS trimmer for more years than I can remember!
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If you are referring to the Lee Quicktrim I have been using it for a few hundred cases now and results are mixed. I did hundreds of cases with no issues but with my last batch I would get 10 or 15 dead on then 5 or 6 too short for no apparent reason. I clean the brass shavings from the cutting tool and shell holder every few cases.

I find the Lee Precision trimmers are more consistent and of course my Wilson is always dead on
 
It gets a little sticky when figuring out tools to trim brass. For bottle neck rifle, you will eventually HAVE to trim, and trimming basically sucks. It can suck a little less when you throw (seemingly exorbitant) money at tools for trimming.
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The Lee system chucked into a 3/8 drill is cheap, fast and if you are just doing rifle cases, pretty much eliminates the "need" for a tumbler.... cases are shiny clean when you remove the case lube from them by wrapping a rag around them and giving them a spin...


Lest we forget a powder trickler..
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I used a disposable plastic spoon with a shallow notch cut in the end for years..... the trickler is nice to have, tho ...
 
And away we go: Welcome.

Along with the Basics, I would get a Gerard Tri Trimmer for each of your calibers. Yep they cost a bit ($100 or so) but save huge.
Chuck them in a drill, clamp the drill upside down in a vice, latch it on and you have a poor mans motorized Gerard (which is the best but a large investment)
I know this is deep end stuff, but the simple detail is it trims by indexing on the shoulder of a case, not the whole thing.
Trust me, it works well, accurate and its fast. I can tram brass so fast it would make others heads spin (with the drill clamped you have to hands to work with) .

Get an elecontri powder dispensers. Lyman and RCBS both make smaller and reasonably cost ones (not cheap, I paid $167 for mine on sale) . I have the Lyman, I would be inclined to RCBS (they have a large model as well). Lyman works well but has input quirks and I got a touch pen to work the touch display.

Get one decent electronic scale, Lyman makes a nice one that has a built on powder trickler, if the Auto Dispenser croaks its a good fall back until you get it replaced.
This is also very useful when you wonder if you charged that case, just put it on the scale and see, or you have two bullets that look alike abut you know you have them around that are 10 grain different.
 
I am a big fan of RCBS equipment. Yes, it tends to be a little more expensive, but when you have a problem with it 20 years later, you will discover why you paid that little bit extra.

Get at least one reloading manual. Two or more is better.

Read the section on "how to reload".
-- Then read it again.
---- Seriously.
Remember, you are making tiny pipe bombs here and while it can be very safe if done properly, a carelessness or a cavalier attitude can be catastrophic.

Once you have read the books, sit down and write out the procedures you will follow in reloading that you learned from the books. Don't worry if your friend doesn't follow all of them, we're all human and we yield to the temptation to take short cuts, but learn enough from the manuals that you can spot your friend's bad habits and not follow them. Once you have them written down, print out a copy each time you reload and use it as a checksheet to make sure you don't overlook something.

I reload small quantities (generally 50 to 100 rounds) at a time on a single stage press, trimming my brass with a hand cranked Forster trimmer, and loading charges weighed on an RCBS beam balance. I load small quantities, slowly and deliberately because I want to make sure every step is followed and documented.

If you want to load larger quantities and you want to do so faster, you will use different equipment and procedures. But you don't have to spend a lot of money to craft quality ammunition.

Also, no one manufacturer makes the "best" of everything - particularly depending on what you mean by "best". I have an RCBS press. I have RCBS dies. I use a Lee Universal Decapper die since I think it is the "best" die for how I use it. I have an RCBS powder measure, but I used to use a Lee. I have a Hornady powder trickler which I bought because of the price. I use a Forster trimmer and I have Foster carbide sizing rings in all of my RCBS bottleneck cartridge dies. Buy what meets your needs, works and is reasonably priced.
 
Taz gerstman wrote:
He doesn’t charge me much but sometimes I question his abilities meaning once he gets it in his head that one particular item is the best or so he thinks it is then his horse blinders are on and he doesn’t look at the advantages of changing things up to see if you can optimize a setup.
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Tunnel vision can happen to us all.

But, if you friend has been reloading for a while consider that he may have optimized his load, his process or his inventory and so sees little advantage to changing. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

In late 1979, I began loading 223 Remington for my Ruger Mini-14. Using the canister powders available to me, I could not match the velocity of factory ammunition, so to get what I regarded as appropriate terminal performance on the game I was likely to hunt and the ranges I would likely be hunting, I embarked on a process to develop an optimal load. I ended up with a Hornady 60 grain Spire Point (soft or hollow) bullet on top of IMR-4198 powder. It delivered very good performance for my needs and so when I stopped being able to get IMR-4198, I reworked the load with what I could get, so in time I had recipes for three powders that resulted in consistent results. I could literally take a magazine, load it with one round containing IMR-4198, another IMR-3031 and another Winchester 748 and without changing anything about the rifle fire them and know I would get the same point of impact. In the intervening 38 years, I have seen no reason to change this. Are there newer bullets? Yes. Are there newer powders? Yes. But if I started developing a load with them, what would I have to change about the way I load or the way I shoot to accommodate the changed round?
 
Thanks everyone who has given me much to think about and to study. I see mentioned quite a bit the art of trimming. Is this something more for reloading already shot cases or for new cases as well? Thanks
 
If I were asked to outfit a bench for someone given the criteria you listed, these are the items I would select:

Lee Classic Turret press
Quality beam scale (RCBS 505 or equivalent, most are made by Ohaus and re-branded, any name brand is fine)
Lyman 55 powder measure
Lee 3-die set that includes collet neck-only size die
Simple dial caliper, needn't be hyper expensive

It gets a little sticky when figuring out tools to trim brass. For bottle neck rifle, you will eventually HAVE to trim, and trimming basically sucks. It can suck a little less when you throw (seemingly exorbitant) money at tools for trimming.

I would also recommend a very basic rotary tumbler, simple ground corncob and dry tumbling only. Some may say that tumbling isn't necessary but this stuff is filthy and clean brass will enrich the experience in multiple ways.
Click to expand...

Pretty good advice, IMO. I would get a Lyman turret press instead as it seems like a sturdier setup. Rifle brass full length sizing requires a sturdy setup for accuracy of the base to shoulder datum dimension. Press flex will make that tolerance big which has a big impact to case fit and accuracy. Maybe a single stage would be best.

Also, a scale is $50. A powder measure is $50. On sale a Hornady Dispenser is $130. It makes rifle loading a breeze....More than worth that $30 to me. Also, either way, scale check weights are good peace of mind.

Lee dies are fine, but their lock rings don't lock. That is why I buy Hornady dies. Lee dies +$10 in lock rings equal Hornady pricing, IME.

Remember the basics....bullet selection is biggest impact to accuracy, followed by case fit to chamber, powder charge and bullet distance from rifling.
 
Yep, I think the OP should be really confused by now. Everything from a "basic" (not my wording) Gerard Tri Trimmer, to Lee cast trimming tools. To "get this specific press, these dies and this scale". I'm not gonna recommend anything specific because I don't know the OP and his exact needs.

But I started with a Lee Loader, a yellar mallet, and an 18" log. That was the equipment, I also had one pound of Bullseye, 100 CCI primers, 250 generic cast lead bullets, and a few hundred scrounged cases from the local police range. I made safe, accurate ammo, and plenty of it purchasing only components for about 10-12 months, shooting and reloading weekly. I didn't feel "deprived" nor "ancient" using this set up. And I only mention it here to tell the OP that not every tool "suggested" on a forum is necessary for a beginning reloader...
 
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Reloading

One measuring tool I think can also be extremely beneficial to the rookie reloader is a cartridge "Go/No-Go gauge. Well, maybe not just the rookie. I will get one for any applicable new cartridge I start reloading and use it as a standard tool to check my die settings before loading a cartridge in my firearm, or assemble cartridges with powder in them.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/639610/hornady-cartridge-gauge-308-winchester.
 
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Start with a copy of The ABC's of Reloading. Then look into one of the 'Beginner's' kits. Gives you everything you need less the dies and shell holder. The kits come with a manual, but buy a Lyman manual as well. It's far more versatile than any bullet or powder maker's book. The 'Reference' chapters are a pretty good read too.
Partial to RCBS too. Just because of the warrantee. Their warrantee is on the kit, not who bought it first. So it covers used kit too. Don't think anybody else(the entire manufacturing world has a lot to learn about customer service from the reloading companies) covers used kit. Any issues of any kind, including the ones you cause will be fixed with a phone call or e-mail.
 
So here is another reloading question I guess you would say. I have recently bought a traditions buckstalker muzzleloader 50 cal with 24 in barrel. My friend again has a recipe that includes 88grain of black horn 209 powder using 250 grain Barnes tmz bullets I think. Now before I go off and do research I know this combination works ok because he has put it on paper but 88 grains sure seems lite for 250 grain bullet. Unless the powder being what it is has some unique burn characteristics to where you don’t have to use as much. I will do some reading but just curious what y’all might think
 
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