Before You Submit that Post: Discussion Thread

[Spats McGee]

The first few posts in this thread were moved from OldMarksman's thread "Before You Submit that Post...." to provide a better thread for discussion of that post. -- Spats

 

[ATN082268]

Everyone who posts here or anywhere else on the Internet should understand that such posts are permanent, and they may be subject to discovery in legal proceedings at any time in the future.

If anyone wasn't aware of this before Edward Snowden and the NSA incident, they should be aware of it now.

 

[CalmerThanYou]

I suppose it is all about interpretation.
One may say belonging to a gun forum at all could compromise the member as some sort of gun nut. On the other hand one could argue most of us are here to gain information adding to our knowledge of current laws and proper training for safe care of and operation of firearms.
Point well taken though by the author that all things interweb are part of a potential individual profile that could help or hinder your future.

 

[Don P]

I suppose it is all about interpretation

Prosecutors will gladly use your words against you depending on your post content. Conversation came up at the last competition match I was at, One of the shooters stated that if anyone was in his house without authorization he would shoot to kill no questions asked. My point as well as Oldmarksman point, say that person who made that statement posted that on this forum. Fast forward to it actually happens in his home and it comes to question was it a good shoot? Prosecutor doesn't think so he goes to jail and has to stand trail for murder. The search the web and find that post with his statement. It proves his state of mind before hand and IT WILL be used against him. As Massad has stated in his classes the castle doctrine does turn YOUR home into an execution chamber

 

[rickyrick]

I think it's good advice, I've been slowly disconnecting from social media. Will eventually end my activities on TFL. Being a member here is taboo in some circles and it's never going to get better. The subject of guns never crosses my lips anymore. The anonymity of the internet has disappeared. Somehow Facebook and Twitter have become the final authority. I took down my U.S. Flag from my front yard last evening to never put it back out.

 

[ATN082268]

I think it's good advice, I've been slowly disconnecting from social media. Will eventually end my activities on TFL. Being a member here is taboo in some circles and it's never going to get better.

In general, it is probably a good idea to avoid politics in casual conversations. Bringing up political topics is frequently a good way to alienate people without getting anything constructive in return.

The subject of guns never crosses my lips anymore. The anonymity of the internet has disappeared.

I'm not convinced there was ever much in the way of anonymity on the internet unless you always took effective measures to cover your tracks. Personally I don't see owning guns any different than, say someone who owns cars, stamps or anything else. If your friends freak out because you collect guns instead of shoes or whatever, then I'd get new friends, not just because of that one issue but due to their general mindset.

Somehow Facebook and Twitter have become the final authority. I took down my U.S. Flag from my front yard last evening to never put it back out.

Is that because of some Homeowner's association/ government rule or because a lot of people in your area shun the American flag?

 

[ShootistPRS]

The problem with using a conversation from a forum or facebook or other form of internet posting is that people don't often portray themselves as they truly are. There is a psychological name for this but I don't recall what it is. There are no "internal governors" on the internet and no repercussions. One can be whomever they wish in any given conversation. What they say or do on the internet has no real bearing on their actions in their real lives where there are responsibilities and discipline that occur because of ones actions.
I agree that a prosecutor might use it in court but the defense could just as easily show that it has no bearing in real life. People pretend to be members of the opposite gender, a younger or older age, and as having served in the military when they never did. The internet is a play land where real people rarely meet.

 

[carguychris]

The problem with using a conversation from a forum or facebook or other form of internet posting is that people don't often portray themselves as they truly are.

Such behavior is an immutable facet of human nature. All human discourse is colored by the possibility that the speaker or writer may be lying, exaggerating, omitting vital information, or otherwise bending the truth. Dealing with this possibility is an integral part of what courts do and it always has been.

The Interwebz may have enhanced the speed and ease with which someone can mislead others about who he really is and what he really thinks, but it hasn't fundamentally changed the way humans interact, nor how the courts view those interactions.

What they say or do on the internet has no real bearing on their actions in their real lives where there are responsibilities and discipline that occur because of ones actions.

Yes it does. Numerous crimes are dependent upon intent. Since we don't have the technology to read minds (yet!), intent must be established based on the totality of the circumstances, which may well include any written or verbal statements made be the defendant, regardless of the form those statements took.

If the defendant made statements that later come back to bite him or her on the rear, well, that's the very nature of taking responsibility for one's actions. It's facile to assume that a court will somehow discount potentially incriminating statements simply because it was the Internet and "I was just kidding, everybody does it!"

I agree that a prosecutor might use it in court but the defense could just as easily show that it has no bearing in real life.

Perhaps, but that will depend upon the totality of the circumstances.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The problem with using a conversation from a forum or facebook or other form of internet posting is that people don't often portray themselves as they truly are.....People pretend to be members of the opposite gender, a younger or older age, and as having served in the military when they never did. The internet is a play land where real people rarely meet.

People are always who they really are. One can't be anyone else. If one chooses to take advantage of the perceived anonymity of the Internet to portray himself as someone older or younger or prettier or uglier or of a different sex than he actually is, those choices reflect something of himself. They are the choices he makes when given the opportunity.

....a prosecutor might use it in court but the defense could just as easily show that it has no bearing in real life....

Of course it has a bearing on real life. It is real life. How you present yourself, even if you misrepresent yourself, to the world always says something about you. We are responsible for how we choose to present or misrepresent ourselves to the world, and the choices we make are expressions of who we are.

 

[Concerned Citizen]

If you are really worried about your privacy, then you shouldn't be online period, not just on gun forums. Laws change and the Zeitgeist of the ages change. What may be perfectly legal and acceptable now may be illegal and contemptible later. Don't think it could happen in America? Think again.

Certain handguns, long guns, knives and their accessories that are perfectly legal today may become highly illegal tomorrow. You could be branded a criminal overnight at the stroke of a pen. A future totalitarian Govt. would have an enormous list of resources to reference. I've never understood people who feel the need to publicly list every firearm they own on forum posts. I do reference my own firearms when it is pertinent to the discussion at hand but I do not provide a permanent, detailed list for anti-gun groups, thieves or anyone else that I don't know to see. Why make it easy for them?

Should we all be sweating and fretting with fear about something we said today that could be used against us 10, 20 or even 30 years from now? It's unlikely, but possible. If I were that worried about it I wouldn't be here. Websites go down or become inaccessible over time, people get new CPU's, change emails and IP addresses, surf anonymously, etc. but there is always a shadow looming over you, the threat is there.

So you must be careful what you say or stay offline completely. Even then, the wrong person can still film and record you in person with their phones and cause you a great deal of trouble, as some LEO's and Neo-Nazi's have recently found out the hard way.

It's a lovely world we live in today isn't it?

 

[Theohazard]

If you are really worried about your privacy, then you shouldn't be online period, not just on gun forums.

Maybe, but that's sort of like saying, "If you're really worried about your personal safety, then you shouldn't ever leave your house."

Sure, never leaving your house might make you safer, but it's also a pretty extreme step. You can leave your house and yet still minimize risks to your personal safety by doing things like wearing your seatbelt and carrying a concealed firearm that you're proficient with.

The same thing goes for being online: You can go online and still work to minimize your loss of privacy. Don't post too much personal information, don't use simple passwords, and set your social media accounts to only be viewed by certain people.

 

[OldMarksman]

If you are really worried about your privacy, then....

The subject is not about privacy. There is no privacy on the internet, or, once someone has record a subpoena, on your hard drive or flash drive or in your desk drawers.

The original thread should be reasonably clear on what the subject is.

 

[mehavey]

As my mother used to say - loooooooong before The Internet was even a moist concept, "... before you write down, consider that it may someday be above-the-fold in the New York Times."

`nuff said.