I’ve searched and can’t find anything that covers this particular produce and yes I know bedding has been talked to death but I have a couple of simple question. Has anyone used JB Weld “stick” (not the two parts in tubes but the putty roll you knead together) for a bedding ? If so how has it worked or not worked?
Bedding… JB Weld “stick”?
- Thread starter Jerry45
- Start date
Nope, and I wouldn’t even try it. It’s too thick, IMO. More importantly, there's no fiber reinforcement. The strength of the bedding material comes from the fiber ... especially important in the thin areas ... the epoxy stick material is brittle in a thin layer.
The object, when making fiberglass-like material strong is to have the highest fiber to bonding material ratio possible. I've been known to pull a vacuum on many projects ... to remopve both air and excess resin.
There are plenty of products made for doing the job and making things easier. Brownells has some good stuff.
The last few times I bedded a stock, I used carbon fiber in an epoxy resin. The resin was made by West Systems … but that was only because I had the fiber scraps and resin left over from other projects.
The object, when making fiberglass-like material strong is to have the highest fiber to bonding material ratio possible. I've been known to pull a vacuum on many projects ... to remopve both air and excess resin.
There are plenty of products made for doing the job and making things easier. Brownells has some good stuff.
The last few times I bedded a stock, I used carbon fiber in an epoxy resin. The resin was made by West Systems … but that was only because I had the fiber scraps and resin left over from other projects.
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I was thinking that the putty would make for a cleaner easier application but I also thought it may be too thick. This will be my first attempt at bedding. I have no doubt I can do the work necessary just not sure of the best material to use. I don’t want to use fiberglass it's way too messy and way too hard to work. I’ve worked with it in the past for other jobs. I watched a video of a fellow bedding using Devcon. I used Devcon many years ago for metal repair and it didn’t have any fiber in it so I didn’t even think about using fiber in the bedding material. While I was waiting for a reply I looked at ACRAGLAS GEL on Brownell’s. Do you know if it contains fiber? I also thought about using regular JB Weld. I’ve worked with it quite a bit, but it doesn’t contain fiber either. I have some fiberglass cloth I can cut up for fiber material if I need to add it to the ACROGLASS GEL or “regular two part” (in tubes) JB Weld. Your help/advice is appreciated!
Acraglas has a built-in "fiber". As it cures, it forms a lattice structure at the molecular level. It becomes it's own fiber, so to speak ... For added strength, metal or other particles/fibers can be mixed with it. … but you don’t need that for a standard bedding job. Used straight will do just fine.
Some stick epoxies also contain fiber but not all fiber is equal. Without going into strength, length, types, etc … of fibers and bonding agents that work with them … cause it even bores me silly … I’ll just say that I dunno what the JB Stick has in it, but have used it (on non-gun stuff) … and thin layers were prone to crack.
EDIT : Looked up JB stick .. It's steel filled ... a decent product for some things, by the way. I prefer Propoxy, but can't always find it.
Also looked up Acraglas. I don't think I was too misleading about it. It's the stuff I was thinking about when I mentioned Brownells.
Some stick epoxies also contain fiber but not all fiber is equal. Without going into strength, length, types, etc … of fibers and bonding agents that work with them … cause it even bores me silly … I’ll just say that I dunno what the JB Stick has in it, but have used it (on non-gun stuff) … and thin layers were prone to crack.
EDIT : Looked up JB stick .. It's steel filled ... a decent product for some things, by the way. I prefer Propoxy, but can't always find it.
Also looked up Acraglas. I don't think I was too misleading about it. It's the stuff I was thinking about when I mentioned Brownells.
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TrailBlazinMan
New member
There are several types of Acraglas. The Gel when made up is very thick and needs no reinforcing. The regular Acraglas is running. If you feel the overwhelming need to bed with some fiberglass cloth, you will need to use the runny Acraglas because the gel will not penetrate the cloth.
Is this just a regular bedding job or are you trying to strengthen a lightweight stock?
Is this just a regular bedding job or are you trying to strengthen a lightweight stock?
Just reread the thread. .JB weld won’t penetrate fiberglass cloth.
What TrailBlazinMan said is right. The gel will not penetrate cloth either. Also, there’s the liquid (which will penetrate cloth).
When I said Acraglas, I was talking about the gel. To get fiber into the gel, it has to be chipped up fairly fine and mixed with the gel before you use the hardener. Dunno about fiberglass, but kevlar and carbon mix in well. I don’t see why fiberglass wouldn’t work because epoxy resins tend to work with anything, but there’s no real advantage to doing it … kevlar and carbon will NOT work with polyester resins (the usual stuff sold as fiberglass resin)
Other guys will have better advise. I have a tendency towards overkill. If you’re just needing a spacer, most of this stuff about fiber and such is not needed. JB weld by itself might even work? I wouldn't do it ... but ... Don't try to use it with cloth, though.
What TrailBlazinMan said is right. The gel will not penetrate cloth either. Also, there’s the liquid (which will penetrate cloth).
When I said Acraglas, I was talking about the gel. To get fiber into the gel, it has to be chipped up fairly fine and mixed with the gel before you use the hardener. Dunno about fiberglass, but kevlar and carbon mix in well. I don’t see why fiberglass wouldn’t work because epoxy resins tend to work with anything, but there’s no real advantage to doing it … kevlar and carbon will NOT work with polyester resins (the usual stuff sold as fiberglass resin)
Other guys will have better advise. I have a tendency towards overkill. If you’re just needing a spacer, most of this stuff about fiber and such is not needed. JB weld by itself might even work? I wouldn't do it ... but ... Don't try to use it with cloth, though.
mapsjanhere
New member
As your typical bedding material is loaded in compression while shooting, the fiber reinforcement contributes very little to the strength of the material. It's main part is a as crack arrester, and for that the steel particles in the JB weld work just fine. If you can get your hand on a piece of carbon fiber fabric and cut it into 1/8th inch length short fibers, that makes a great random orientation reinforcement (wear a dust mask!). Grinding it in an old coffee mill works great too.
To add to what Mapsjanhere said, Brownells Steel Bed is all micronized stainless filler. Bisonite, which was preferred by service rifle armorers for years, also lacks fiber. Epoxy resins often have plasticizers in them these days to prevent cracking rather than depending on fiber. West Systems G-flex epoxy is a prime example.
A good rule of thumb with any of them is just not to let them get thinner than about 0.005" for best strength. That's a second reason (in addition to grip) that you inlet the stock for them rather than just smearing them on the surface. The main plus to the steel fillers, in addition to ruggedness, is to bring the linear temperature expansion of the cured epoxy mass closer to that of the gun steel to reduce differential shape change with temperature.
A good rule of thumb with any of them is just not to let them get thinner than about 0.005" for best strength. That's a second reason (in addition to grip) that you inlet the stock for them rather than just smearing them on the surface. The main plus to the steel fillers, in addition to ruggedness, is to bring the linear temperature expansion of the cured epoxy mass closer to that of the gun steel to reduce differential shape change with temperature.
I'm betwixt and between. I have the action in a Boyd's thumb-hole stock I bought about a year ago. (see picture below) This is the one I'm thinking about bedding. I like the stock but wish I had bough a Bell & Carson Tactical stock. I still lust for one.
Before anyone asks it's a Remington 700 30/06 and it'll shoot 1" or less at 100 yards as it sits.
I was also looking at this but I don't believe I want to get that drastic.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/84...ion-right-hand-with-magazine-cut-out-aluminum
My problem is I'm never satisfied and just plain like tinkering with my guns.
I'm not even sure it needs bedding but I keep hearing "it won't hurt".
This is how she sits to date.
Before anyone asks it's a Remington 700 30/06 and it'll shoot 1" or less at 100 yards as it sits.
I was also looking at this but I don't believe I want to get that drastic.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/84...ion-right-hand-with-magazine-cut-out-aluminum
My problem is I'm never satisfied and just plain like tinkering with my guns.
I'm not even sure it needs bedding but I keep hearing "it won't hurt". This is how she sits to date.
Oh pretty …
When you were talking JB weld and such, I was picturing a beat-up clunky sporterized Spanish or something … She deserves better, imo.
A little careful inletting and the Gel would do a nice job. Barrel is already free-floated, right?
Unclenick and Mapsjanhere bring up a great argument for steel bedding and I learned something from their posts that I hadn’t considered - thanks guys!
Bedding done correctly will never hurt. Doesn’t always help, though. The better base you start with, the less it usually helps. You already have a fine base, imo.
When you were talking JB weld and such, I was picturing a beat-up clunky sporterized Spanish or something … She deserves better, imo.
A little careful inletting and the Gel would do a nice job. Barrel is already free-floated, right?
Unclenick and Mapsjanhere bring up a great argument for steel bedding and I learned something from their posts that I hadn’t considered - thanks guys!
Bedding done correctly will never hurt. Doesn’t always help, though. The better base you start with, the less it usually helps. You already have a fine base, imo.
Yes the barrel is free-float already. I can't actually give a "good" reason for wanting to do the bedding other than "I" need all the help "I" can get. On occasion at 100 yards "I" can put 3 bullets in a 5/16" hole. Most of the time "I" can shoot 1" or less 5 shot string at 100. Sooooo, as is, I think the rifle is good to go, but everything I can do to make the rifle shot better puts the blame for not shooting one ragged 1/4" hole squarely where it belongs.... The loose nut behind the trigger.
I'm also lusting after a Bell & Carson Tactical stock.
I'm also lusting after a Bell & Carson Tactical stock.
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Fully understand that … I built up the most accurate rifle I could out of the pure frustration of not knowing when to blame myself and when to blame the rifle. Now I know what (actually, who) to blame most of the time.
"Just ‘cause you want to" is good enough reason to tweak a toy, imo….
noticed you’re in Metarie. Cool… I used to live down there years back, close to Lafreniere Park. It was a burned-out racetrack back then.
"Just ‘cause you want to" is good enough reason to tweak a toy, imo….
noticed you’re in Metarie. Cool… I used to live down there years back, close to Lafreniere Park. It was a burned-out racetrack back then.
I watches this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_TJ6eIFro series of a smith bedding a custom 700. I didn't see anything special until the end. In all the other videos I've seen the action screws are either taped or coated with release agent and after the bedding was finished the screw holes were left as is. The custom made stock in the video appears to have pillars installed. The fellow (smith) finishes the bedding job by re-drilling the holes in the pillars so the action screws have clearance all the way round. About 4:55 in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIVGmJ9z1C4 I'm wondering, since the action screws are alined while bedding and are cinched down tight when the action is installed in the finished bed what advantage would there be to opening up the holes in the stock? Would it actually be necessary?
mapsjanhere
New member
Most resins are comparatively weak in compression. If you want to torque down on your action, you might crack your brand new bedding. The pillars take up that load.
TrailBlazinMan
New member
When the rifle fires the recoil energy is transferred through the recoil lug to the stock. This causes the wood to compress slightly then rebound to absorb the force of the recoil. If there is no clearance on the screws then the screws act as a recoil lug: this may crack the stock and/or may the rifle less accurate.
…Not to mention the screw can shift slightly as you first shoot the newly bedded gun and it settles. That can lead to it's uneven contact with the side of the pillar. Extreme changes in ambient temperature that expand or contract the stock can also affect that degree of contact. So, even if it doesn't lead to damage, it can become another variable you don't need.