Becoming a gunsmith
- Thread starter CraZkid
- Start date
cntryboy1289
New member
a good gunsmith for one
You didn't say how old you were, but I would suggest getting to know a local smith if there is one available. See if he has a need for a guy to do some basic work and clean up around the shop. You might get lucky and be able to help him around the shop and pick up some valuable info as well as decide if this is what you want to do. I then would enroll in a good machinist class and a good welding class. Then if you want to do the gunsmithing part time, you would have a career as a machinist and or welder to use as your living expenses and have the smithing on the side. You can check into the various gunsmithing schools on the net by searching for gunsmithing schools. Good luck.
You didn't say how old you were, but I would suggest getting to know a local smith if there is one available. See if he has a need for a guy to do some basic work and clean up around the shop. You might get lucky and be able to help him around the shop and pick up some valuable info as well as decide if this is what you want to do. I then would enroll in a good machinist class and a good welding class. Then if you want to do the gunsmithing part time, you would have a career as a machinist and or welder to use as your living expenses and have the smithing on the side. You can check into the various gunsmithing schools on the net by searching for gunsmithing schools. Good luck.
Dave Sample
Moderator
Save up about $100,000 for your shop.
When/if you decide to go into business, take a small business course at a local school, like a community college. Learn at least a little about how to run a business. Believe me, the gunsmithing part is easy compared to knowing all the ins and outs of actually running a shop and making money. Think an FFL is all that is needed? How about a business license, sales tax license, zoning approval, etc., etc.?
And line up some capital, your own savings or investors'. I know some guys think all they need to be a gunsmith is a book, a file, a screwdriver, and an FFL. Get a Brownell's catalog and check the prices of even the most basic tools. Look at the price of even chambering reamers and headspace gauges. Then check the cost of machines - lathe, miller, drill press, grinder - that you will need to do a job right. Doing bluing is another headache, with all the OSHA rules about ventilation, hazardous chemicals, etc.
Some folks have accused me of trying to discourage new gunsmiths. I think that if simply pointing out some real-world problems discourages them, they cannot have been very determined. I have seen too many people who tried to convert a hobby into a business start up with high hopes, only to founder on the problems and economics of doing business. One I heard of saw no need to keep books, get a business license, pay estimated income tax, or worry about state sales taxes. His "business" lasted less than six months before he went bankrupt and almost went to jail.
Jim
And line up some capital, your own savings or investors'. I know some guys think all they need to be a gunsmith is a book, a file, a screwdriver, and an FFL. Get a Brownell's catalog and check the prices of even the most basic tools. Look at the price of even chambering reamers and headspace gauges. Then check the cost of machines - lathe, miller, drill press, grinder - that you will need to do a job right. Doing bluing is another headache, with all the OSHA rules about ventilation, hazardous chemicals, etc.
Some folks have accused me of trying to discourage new gunsmiths. I think that if simply pointing out some real-world problems discourages them, they cannot have been very determined. I have seen too many people who tried to convert a hobby into a business start up with high hopes, only to founder on the problems and economics of doing business. One I heard of saw no need to keep books, get a business license, pay estimated income tax, or worry about state sales taxes. His "business" lasted less than six months before he went bankrupt and almost went to jail.
Jim
Jim , you're a wet blanket. But in my life time I've seen many start their own business.Doesn't matter what business -lawyer, doctor, electrician plumber etc. Many fail because, while they may be expert in their trade, fail to take care of the business end of it. For a gunsmith the more you know the better off you are .I went to the Colorado School of Trades apparently now considered the best gunsmithing school. A machinest background is excellent too. But it's a continuous learning process. Though I had the formal training I kept it as a hobby and part time thing and continued as an engineer !
cntryboy1289
New member
You guys
I left this one short becuase I didn't know the guy or his age or his desire. Mr. Keenan is absolutely correct in his statement though. It doesn't matter if you are the best trained man out there if you over spend and buy before you have the money to pay for it. Mr Sample is on the right track when he says get ready to spend a whole lot of money. Just this year, I have spent over $10,000 on tools and machinery and various asundries to do the work in my shop plus a new shop. This doesn't take into consideration the parts I have had to buy to do the work with. I have been business going on 8 years now and that doesn't come close to what I have spent through the years. It can hit you all at once or trickle in, but the needs will arise. I had to buy a new HF unit the other day for my welder. The one I have had for 20 years has gone out which happens all the time to machines. The new lathe cost me $4100 the other month with the new tooling that it needed. Those buffers and belt sanders wear out eventually as well.
The point of this is this. Of that $10,000+ that I have had to spend, most of it came in the last 2 months. Now for a guy who thinks he can start out and not spend the money for these parts, it can be done SLOWLY! It won't be easy. I have never borrowed money to set my shop up nor have I borrowed money to buy any of the machines or tools I have bought through the years. I have worked out of my back yard ever since I opened the doors. I have never had to worry about if the money suddenly stops coming in either since this isn't my way of earning a living, and believe me, there will be many many slow months in the future for a smith. Some you will be so busy and work so many long hours and at the end of the month you will barely be able to see a profit. Some you will do very little and the money rolls in because of the tpyes of jobs you have been doing. So yes, I would do like Mr. Keenan said and take a very good small business class, I did, and it has kept me going at times when I had to put out so much money that I asked myself a 100 times why was I doing this. Don't get me wrong, I make decent money doing what I love to do and would be doing it even if I wasn't working for the other guy. I think Mr. Keenan and others like us would be lax if we didn't sound like a wet blanket at times to let folks know the reality of owning your own business. It isn't like we have someone else paying the bills each month. It's still your rear end that will suffer if you have to file bankruptcy.
I left this one short becuase I didn't know the guy or his age or his desire. Mr. Keenan is absolutely correct in his statement though. It doesn't matter if you are the best trained man out there if you over spend and buy before you have the money to pay for it. Mr Sample is on the right track when he says get ready to spend a whole lot of money. Just this year, I have spent over $10,000 on tools and machinery and various asundries to do the work in my shop plus a new shop. This doesn't take into consideration the parts I have had to buy to do the work with. I have been business going on 8 years now and that doesn't come close to what I have spent through the years. It can hit you all at once or trickle in, but the needs will arise. I had to buy a new HF unit the other day for my welder. The one I have had for 20 years has gone out which happens all the time to machines. The new lathe cost me $4100 the other month with the new tooling that it needed. Those buffers and belt sanders wear out eventually as well.
The point of this is this. Of that $10,000+ that I have had to spend, most of it came in the last 2 months. Now for a guy who thinks he can start out and not spend the money for these parts, it can be done SLOWLY! It won't be easy. I have never borrowed money to set my shop up nor have I borrowed money to buy any of the machines or tools I have bought through the years. I have worked out of my back yard ever since I opened the doors. I have never had to worry about if the money suddenly stops coming in either since this isn't my way of earning a living, and believe me, there will be many many slow months in the future for a smith. Some you will be so busy and work so many long hours and at the end of the month you will barely be able to see a profit. Some you will do very little and the money rolls in because of the tpyes of jobs you have been doing. So yes, I would do like Mr. Keenan said and take a very good small business class, I did, and it has kept me going at times when I had to put out so much money that I asked myself a 100 times why was I doing this. Don't get me wrong, I make decent money doing what I love to do and would be doing it even if I wasn't working for the other guy. I think Mr. Keenan and others like us would be lax if we didn't sound like a wet blanket at times to let folks know the reality of owning your own business. It isn't like we have someone else paying the bills each month. It's still your rear end that will suffer if you have to file bankruptcy.
Dave Sample
Moderator
I am going to repeat just this: It is the poorest choice of an occupation in 2005 that I can think of.
I have many pals who do this kind of work. They all are not wealthy people.
Never listen to folks who know what they are talking about. If this is what you want to waste your time and money at, Go Fer It! Git R Dun!
I have many pals who do this kind of work. They all are not wealthy people.
Never listen to folks who know what they are talking about. If this is what you want to waste your time and money at, Go Fer It! Git R Dun!
Wildalaska
Moderator
Ya wanna learn while yer working and can live like an animal for a few years, come join our happy team.
WildslavedriverAlaska
WildslavedriverAlaska
cntryboy1289
New member
Wish I was young enoug to go
If I didn't have young ones in school I would take you up on that Wild. I have always wanted to move to Alaska, but alas, my tail is staying where it stays warm.
If I didn't have young ones in school I would take you up on that Wild. I have always wanted to move to Alaska, but alas, my tail is staying where it stays warm.
Hi, guys,
No, I don't like to be a wet blanket. But I have seen the same question asked many times, and responses that consisted of "get an FFL and go into business, you will make a mint." Pretty unrealistic, IMO. Then there are the guys who want to set up a gun business so they can buy guns cheap and sell to their buddies at cost. Great way to make friends (or not) but also a great way to go broke, eating all the costs of the business while making zero profit.
Believe me, I want to see more gunsmiths, but I want to see trained, competent gunsmiths who also know their limitations, not guys who tackle every job with a bastard file and a 5 pound hammer. I don't look down on a gunsmith who tells me that a job is beyond his capability and that he will farm it out or refers me somewhere else. In fact, I respect him the more for not ruining my gun learning the trade.
Jim
No, I don't like to be a wet blanket. But I have seen the same question asked many times, and responses that consisted of "get an FFL and go into business, you will make a mint." Pretty unrealistic, IMO. Then there are the guys who want to set up a gun business so they can buy guns cheap and sell to their buddies at cost. Great way to make friends (or not) but also a great way to go broke, eating all the costs of the business while making zero profit.
Believe me, I want to see more gunsmiths, but I want to see trained, competent gunsmiths who also know their limitations, not guys who tackle every job with a bastard file and a 5 pound hammer. I don't look down on a gunsmith who tells me that a job is beyond his capability and that he will farm it out or refers me somewhere else. In fact, I respect him the more for not ruining my gun learning the trade.
Jim
Dave Sample
Moderator
Telling the truth is not being a wet blanket. I went to real estate school twice. Once for salesman and once for a brokers licence. 93 % of the people that go to this school never make a dime in the business. 4 % make a few bucks before they quit. Only 3 % make it and most of them are not million dollar a year people. I worked 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year. 18 hours was the usual days work. I never kidded myself about the school and the business. Then Jimmy Carter camer along and flushed us down the drain. I lost about $100,000.00 in that deal.
I live a few blocks away from a Gunsmith College. I see them in the hock shop and I have seen what they produce.
I am so glad I trained myself that words fail me.
I live a few blocks away from a Gunsmith College. I see them in the hock shop and I have seen what they produce.
I am so glad I trained myself that words fail me.
I should have given more info. I am nearly 22 and I still haven't decided what I want to do when I grow up 
! I realy just want to learn the basics, like how to tune triggers and detail-strip my guns, and maybe build my own race gun; but i understand that that is well off in the future.
! I realy just want to learn the basics, like how to tune triggers and detail-strip my guns, and maybe build my own race gun; but i understand that that is well off in the future.Harry Bonar
New member
a gunsmith
Dear Shooter:
I take a little different track, and, of course I don't want to detract from others who have advised you - but, I will tell you this: first you need as secure a job in public works as you can find! Your family, if you have one is first. Then, you're dream to be a gunsmith. There are gunsmiths and then all the wannabes! The school is hard and you'll make many mistakes. However, with a good secure job that provides for God, your family and your dog go get-um!
Start small and realize that even the very,very best smiths, renown in their specialty die poor!
My son, Paul Joe Bonar was offered a job with Para, and several firms to name his figure - but old age, aurthuritis
would catch up to him too! A drunken piece of crap ended his plans on Aug. 24th, of 03!
I wish you good coincidences - you will create them yourself - no such thing on earth as "luck."
We prize monetary reward far, far too much - the satisfaction of working with your head, hands and spirit are what count! Live your dream - when you are able too!
God Bless Harry B.
Dear Shooter:
I take a little different track, and, of course I don't want to detract from others who have advised you - but, I will tell you this: first you need as secure a job in public works as you can find! Your family, if you have one is first. Then, you're dream to be a gunsmith. There are gunsmiths and then all the wannabes! The school is hard and you'll make many mistakes. However, with a good secure job that provides for God, your family and your dog go get-um!
Start small and realize that even the very,very best smiths, renown in their specialty die poor!
My son, Paul Joe Bonar was offered a job with Para, and several firms to name his figure - but old age, aurthuritis
would catch up to him too! A drunken piece of crap ended his plans on Aug. 24th, of 03!I wish you good coincidences - you will create them yourself - no such thing on earth as "luck."
We prize monetary reward far, far too much - the satisfaction of working with your head, hands and spirit are what count! Live your dream - when you are able too!
God Bless Harry B.
Dave Sample
Moderator
Great post, Harry!
People do not understand a labor of love anymore. It is now all about the bottom line. I am glad I never tried to make money building 1911's.
I would be a failure.
People do not understand a labor of love anymore. It is now all about the bottom line. I am glad I never tried to make money building 1911's.
I would be a failure.
A labor of love is OK for people who 1) have a good steady job and do "labor of love" part time 2) have inherited 50 million bucks and can afford to play at working, and 3) people who won the lottery and also can afford to play at working.
But being a full time gunsmith while supporting a family demands more than being willing to work for fun. It requires a business sense in addition to gunsmith skills; many folks don't have that combination. If you don't have business sense, you fix your friends' guns for free, charge too little for your labor, fail to keep up with licenses, taxes and business regulations. If you don't learn quick, you soon become another failed business person.
If your skills are not as good as you think, and you believe in OJT, things can be even worse. Learning on the job can work out, but what happens when you goof and ruin a $20k shotgun? Believe me, the customer is not going to understand and forgive because you are new at the business. Or you work on a gun and create, or fail to fix, an unsafe condition and someone dies. Try telling the survivors and the civil court judge that you are just learning and won't do it again.
Jim
But being a full time gunsmith while supporting a family demands more than being willing to work for fun. It requires a business sense in addition to gunsmith skills; many folks don't have that combination. If you don't have business sense, you fix your friends' guns for free, charge too little for your labor, fail to keep up with licenses, taxes and business regulations. If you don't learn quick, you soon become another failed business person.
If your skills are not as good as you think, and you believe in OJT, things can be even worse. Learning on the job can work out, but what happens when you goof and ruin a $20k shotgun? Believe me, the customer is not going to understand and forgive because you are new at the business. Or you work on a gun and create, or fail to fix, an unsafe condition and someone dies. Try telling the survivors and the civil court judge that you are just learning and won't do it again.
Jim
interesting post
First of all let me say "hello". I'm new to the board and so far like it here very much. I'm 47 years old and and have been employed as a power lineman with a rural electric coop for over 20 years. My kids are all grown and on their own so at this point in my life I am relatively comfortable money wise (not rich by any means but comfortable). This post is very interesting to me since for years I have thought about getting into gunsmithing on a part time basis as a way to make a few extra dollars doing something I have enjoyed as a hobby for years.
I have a question for you gentlemen that have responded to this post who are currently in the trade. Would it be possible to make at least a little money at it by farming out the jobs that would require lathe or other machine work and doing the smaller repair jobs in house thus saving the investment of the more expensive machines? What percentage of the work you do calls for the use of high dollar machines and how much of it calls for parts replacement or other minor repairs. Thank you very much for any info you provide.
First of all let me say "hello". I'm new to the board and so far like it here very much. I'm 47 years old and and have been employed as a power lineman with a rural electric coop for over 20 years. My kids are all grown and on their own so at this point in my life I am relatively comfortable money wise (not rich by any means but comfortable). This post is very interesting to me since for years I have thought about getting into gunsmithing on a part time basis as a way to make a few extra dollars doing something I have enjoyed as a hobby for years.
I have a question for you gentlemen that have responded to this post who are currently in the trade. Would it be possible to make at least a little money at it by farming out the jobs that would require lathe or other machine work and doing the smaller repair jobs in house thus saving the investment of the more expensive machines? What percentage of the work you do calls for the use of high dollar machines and how much of it calls for parts replacement or other minor repairs. Thank you very much for any info you provide.
cntryboy1289
New member
yes, yes, and yes
I started out doing exactly that. I had my files, screwdrivers, a good beltsander, a drill press, welding machines, a good chop saw for cutting off stocks, and several years of working on mine and my buddies guns. The first few jobs I did was simply replacing broken parts. I then got one in the shop that I would scratch my head over for a month trying to figure out what the problem was. I took it the smith that I had worked for and he showed me in a few seconds what was wrong with the gun. I learned a valuable lesson right then; e.g. if you need help with a problem, never mind asking for help. I haven't looked back since. I learn more each time I work on a gun so it is a never ending process as far as learning goes. You will never know it all even when you think you have.
As long as you don't need to do threading on a barrel or to make a firing pin now and then, you can get by without a Lathe for most gunsmithing. Most of the work done on guns can be done very well by hand these days since the manufacturers make tools that can do crowning and chambering by hand or with a wrench most of the time. That is not to say that the lathe won't do that work better, but you can do it by hand and turn out very good work by hand. There are all kinds of work that will come in that only needs a screwdriver and a punch to take care of it and a man that can figure it out.
I will say this and let others chime in here, if you want to open a business, by all means, take a small business class at the local junior college first. Learn how to make one run first before ever opening the doors. Make sure to get good insurance that covers you and your work as well as your shop and its contents. My policy is for 1,000,000 and I sleep better at night because of it. Then, make sure to learn all of the regulations in your county or city for running a business. Make sure to pay all fees and liscenses before hand as well as make sure you are up to date with the ATF and their liscenses as well. As they all will tell you, CYOA first and foremost and KISS. If you don't know what those mean just ask, because there plenty of folks here that will let you know. Best of luck.
I started out doing exactly that. I had my files, screwdrivers, a good beltsander, a drill press, welding machines, a good chop saw for cutting off stocks, and several years of working on mine and my buddies guns. The first few jobs I did was simply replacing broken parts. I then got one in the shop that I would scratch my head over for a month trying to figure out what the problem was. I took it the smith that I had worked for and he showed me in a few seconds what was wrong with the gun. I learned a valuable lesson right then; e.g. if you need help with a problem, never mind asking for help. I haven't looked back since. I learn more each time I work on a gun so it is a never ending process as far as learning goes. You will never know it all even when you think you have.
As long as you don't need to do threading on a barrel or to make a firing pin now and then, you can get by without a Lathe for most gunsmithing. Most of the work done on guns can be done very well by hand these days since the manufacturers make tools that can do crowning and chambering by hand or with a wrench most of the time. That is not to say that the lathe won't do that work better, but you can do it by hand and turn out very good work by hand. There are all kinds of work that will come in that only needs a screwdriver and a punch to take care of it and a man that can figure it out.
I will say this and let others chime in here, if you want to open a business, by all means, take a small business class at the local junior college first. Learn how to make one run first before ever opening the doors. Make sure to get good insurance that covers you and your work as well as your shop and its contents. My policy is for 1,000,000 and I sleep better at night because of it. Then, make sure to learn all of the regulations in your county or city for running a business. Make sure to pay all fees and liscenses before hand as well as make sure you are up to date with the ATF and their liscenses as well. As they all will tell you, CYOA first and foremost and KISS. If you don't know what those mean just ask, because there plenty of folks here that will let you know. Best of luck.
Dave Sample
Moderator
My goal was to build very nice 1911's without a machine shop. I hired machinist's to do what they do, and I did what I do. It worked very well for me.
Now we have pistolsmith/machinists. They do wonderful things. I am very glad that I did what I did back then.
Now we have pistolsmith/machinists. They do wonderful things. I am very glad that I did what I did back then.
I don't think working out of your home is a good idea. I have never done it, so the experience is not first hand, but it is valid.
Some folks who have worked out of their homes tell me that there is no fun like some bozo banging on the door at 2 AM on opening day of deer season demanding that you fix his gun, now! Of course it broke the last day of last year's season, but he didn't bring it in until now because he didn't need it until now. They understand that shops close, but they can't seem to understand that a home shop is not open 24/7.
Also, if you get known as a gunsmith or gun dealer, your home also becomes a potential target for bad guys looking for weapons, not a good idea.
I advise folks to NOT work out of their homes, even if it is legally possible to do so. Get a properly zoned business address, and keep your home address to yourself.
Jim
Some folks who have worked out of their homes tell me that there is no fun like some bozo banging on the door at 2 AM on opening day of deer season demanding that you fix his gun, now! Of course it broke the last day of last year's season, but he didn't bring it in until now because he didn't need it until now. They understand that shops close, but they can't seem to understand that a home shop is not open 24/7.
Also, if you get known as a gunsmith or gun dealer, your home also becomes a potential target for bad guys looking for weapons, not a good idea.
I advise folks to NOT work out of their homes, even if it is legally possible to do so. Get a properly zoned business address, and keep your home address to yourself.
Jim