Bears! Oh My!
- Thread starter EMS dude
- Start date
Black bears? You mean giant raccoons? 
Probably your 65 would work. You might want to load penetrative bullets, like 180-grainers.
I've got to say, though, that I feel better having a .41 mag. around to deal with black bears. I know they rarely bug folks, but they seem muscle-y and fang-y and claw-y enough that - if it were necessary - I'd like to make sure I do the job fast, with a little overkill.
Still, I don't know that you need to buy a new gun. Your odds of having to shoot a black bear are low, and they're not super-aggressive like grizzlies (biologists actually recommend you fight a black bear if it starts mowwing on you) so I think six-shots of easily-controlled, rapidly fired .357 180-grainers (well, maybe not that easily controlled, but it's no .475 Linebaugh) backed up by your speedloader is likely to do the trick.
You might want to look at the bear maulings page to get an idea where to shoot. Drat, Keith Rogan's page is down, sorry. Well, shoot for the nose, not between the eyes.
Probably your 65 would work. You might want to load penetrative bullets, like 180-grainers. I've got to say, though, that I feel better having a .41 mag. around to deal with black bears. I know they rarely bug folks, but they seem muscle-y and fang-y and claw-y enough that - if it were necessary - I'd like to make sure I do the job fast, with a little overkill.
Still, I don't know that you need to buy a new gun. Your odds of having to shoot a black bear are low, and they're not super-aggressive like grizzlies (biologists actually recommend you fight a black bear if it starts mowwing on you) so I think six-shots of easily-controlled, rapidly fired .357 180-grainers (well, maybe not that easily controlled, but it's no .475 Linebaugh) backed up by your speedloader is likely to do the trick.
You might want to look at the bear maulings page to get an idea where to shoot. Drat, Keith Rogan's page is down, sorry. Well, shoot for the nose, not between the eyes.
Paul Fitz Jones
New member
More Bears
A significant number of bear maulings have occured to women campers during their their time of the month so be advised.
JP
A significant number of bear maulings have occured to women campers during their their time of the month so be advised.
JP
Lots of bears in Montana .... You don't always see them but you can see the dead logs and stumps they pull apart when looking for ants and grubs. Also rocks rolled over.
I arrived at my favorite campsite once this summer to find the log by the fireplace had been rolled over by a bear looking for the ants. Sort of makes you think as you are setting up your tent ...
I rely on the 357 most of the time, but I figure a warning shot would do the trick anyway. The only time black bears are dangerous is when it is a sow with cubs or one that has gotten used to being fed by people.
I arrived at my favorite campsite once this summer to find the log by the fireplace had been rolled over by a bear looking for the ants. Sort of makes you think as you are setting up your tent ...
I rely on the 357 most of the time, but I figure a warning shot would do the trick anyway. The only time black bears are dangerous is when it is a sow with cubs or one that has gotten used to being fed by people.
Some of you guys have been deceived as to the deadliness of black bears. Sure, they usually run off if one fires a warning shot, but some don't.
The really chilling thing is that most PREDATORY bear attacks are by blacks, not grizzlies. (Okay, polar bears also seem to consider anything they can catch to be fair game, but few of us on this board will meet one outside a zoo.)
A few years ago, a game warden in Montana (Wyoming?) had to shoot a grizzly that got him down and was chewing on him and he killed it with a S&W M66 with unnamed 158 grain loads. Probably JHP's, but I've never see the brand or bullet stated in the several published accounts of the event. The M65 is just the plain Jane form of the M66 and uses the same ammo, so it will presumably work, with good placement of the bullet. Several bears have also been knifed successfully, and I'd rather rely on my M66 than my knife!
One of the bears (black) killed by knife as it grappled with a fisherman had stashed two dead men nearby in a food cache. The bear was likely looking to add the third guy to this larder when it got some cold steel in the "sticking spot".
Lone Star
P.S. Presumably you guys saw the network news item a couple of weeks ago about the black bear that snatched a baby at a New York Jewish "village". It was later shot by police, but the baby was long dead by then. This was in "upstate" NY, not NYC, of course.
The really chilling thing is that most PREDATORY bear attacks are by blacks, not grizzlies. (Okay, polar bears also seem to consider anything they can catch to be fair game, but few of us on this board will meet one outside a zoo.)
A few years ago, a game warden in Montana (Wyoming?) had to shoot a grizzly that got him down and was chewing on him and he killed it with a S&W M66 with unnamed 158 grain loads. Probably JHP's, but I've never see the brand or bullet stated in the several published accounts of the event. The M65 is just the plain Jane form of the M66 and uses the same ammo, so it will presumably work, with good placement of the bullet. Several bears have also been knifed successfully, and I'd rather rely on my M66 than my knife!
One of the bears (black) killed by knife as it grappled with a fisherman had stashed two dead men nearby in a food cache. The bear was likely looking to add the third guy to this larder when it got some cold steel in the "sticking spot".
Lone Star
P.S. Presumably you guys saw the network news item a couple of weeks ago about the black bear that snatched a baby at a New York Jewish "village". It was later shot by police, but the baby was long dead by then. This was in "upstate" NY, not NYC, of course.
MarineTech
New member
I've carried my Dan Wesson 715-2 .357 Magnum for years while hunting just in case I ran afoul of a Maine black bear. I asked both Maine Guides and Maine Wardens what they would recommend before I bought it and all 5 agreed on a stainless .357 Magnum with either FMJ or JSP bullets.
About three years ago my wife and I and another couple were camping up by BWCA and while my buddy and I were a few miles away giving our .45's a workout, apparently a very good size black bear (he was actually cinammon colored ... afterwards we saw the posted warning at the boat launch) attacked our campsites ... mostly mine ... ate pretty much everything except some fat-free chips and some rice cakes (for the wife).
We got back to find the women and kids locked in his Sunfire (we had the keys and all the guns). We immediately scrounged what little ammo we had left and went looking around. Then, I noticed I was missing a cooler ... we found it about 50 yards away after about 20 minutes of looking.
I kept my LW Combat Commander with me the rest of the day and into the night around the campfire.
While sitting around the campfire, another bear started trying to run off with one of my coolers. I immediately shot over his head. We were on kind of a half-peninsula and the bear couldn't figure out how to get away. After several more rounds and a little bushwacking, he finally got his bearings and took off like a shot (no pun intended).
I didn't know much about bears at the time ... I only presumed that they were supposed to be afraid of me, and, when they weren't, I tried to convince them and, maybe, got lucky. I never once considered actually firing to hit them.
Incidentally, while my buddy and I were gone, others in the campground tried bangin pots and pans and an air-horn with absolutely no effect. If a bear's used to getting free easy grub, it's my, limited, experience that nothing will deter him short of a very loud bang.
I believe the situation could have been much worse had either bear been a sow with a cub.
I don't go into the woods with an overwhelming fear of bears (blacks, anyhow), but, I feel very safe these days with my Glock 20 around.
In the rare event that you actually get a bear givin' ya trouble, I would expect that a .22 would be fine as your first move should be to fire a warning shot, or two, or three ... go ahead and terrorize him ... put the fear of God into him, as it were. However, .45ACP, and even moreso, .357 are going to be more effective due to the louder bang. And, in case the bear isn't as easily persuaded as mine was, I'd be ok with .357 ... moreso in an 8-shot, but, given the odds, I wouldn't bother with a new gun (I can't believe I just said that). As always, it helps if you can actually hit what you're aimin' at with the gun you carry. Which is why I carry my Glock 20 and not my 629 or Anaconda.
Also, of all the food in my coolers and some bread in another bin, the big one still sniffed out an unopened package of 4 nutter-butters in my wife's backpack laying on the ground and tore it open right where they were. In case you haven't heard it before, don't keep food in your tent or in your car (if you like your paint job and windows).
Hope this helps.
We got back to find the women and kids locked in his Sunfire (we had the keys and all the guns). We immediately scrounged what little ammo we had left and went looking around. Then, I noticed I was missing a cooler ... we found it about 50 yards away after about 20 minutes of looking.
I kept my LW Combat Commander with me the rest of the day and into the night around the campfire.
While sitting around the campfire, another bear started trying to run off with one of my coolers. I immediately shot over his head. We were on kind of a half-peninsula and the bear couldn't figure out how to get away. After several more rounds and a little bushwacking, he finally got his bearings and took off like a shot (no pun intended).
I didn't know much about bears at the time ... I only presumed that they were supposed to be afraid of me, and, when they weren't, I tried to convince them and, maybe, got lucky. I never once considered actually firing to hit them.
Incidentally, while my buddy and I were gone, others in the campground tried bangin pots and pans and an air-horn with absolutely no effect. If a bear's used to getting free easy grub, it's my, limited, experience that nothing will deter him short of a very loud bang.
I believe the situation could have been much worse had either bear been a sow with a cub.
I don't go into the woods with an overwhelming fear of bears (blacks, anyhow), but, I feel very safe these days with my Glock 20 around.
In the rare event that you actually get a bear givin' ya trouble, I would expect that a .22 would be fine as your first move should be to fire a warning shot, or two, or three ... go ahead and terrorize him ... put the fear of God into him, as it were. However, .45ACP, and even moreso, .357 are going to be more effective due to the louder bang. And, in case the bear isn't as easily persuaded as mine was, I'd be ok with .357 ... moreso in an 8-shot, but, given the odds, I wouldn't bother with a new gun (I can't believe I just said that). As always, it helps if you can actually hit what you're aimin' at with the gun you carry. Which is why I carry my Glock 20 and not my 629 or Anaconda.
Also, of all the food in my coolers and some bread in another bin, the big one still sniffed out an unopened package of 4 nutter-butters in my wife's backpack laying on the ground and tore it open right where they were. In case you haven't heard it before, don't keep food in your tent or in your car (if you like your paint job and windows).
Hope this helps.
Lone Star, I guess it may be where you live, but we have been over run with "bear stories." It's like CNN with sharks.
Have the number of attacks increased, or just the reporting. Have the flowered shirts morons in the gun rags contributed to this silly bear panic?
Maybe I'm lucky that I live where we killed our predators and chopped down our trees (and them put that on the state seal) before the watermelons could tell us how cute they are.
Have the number of attacks increased, or just the reporting. Have the flowered shirts morons in the gun rags contributed to this silly bear panic?Maybe I'm lucky that I live where we killed our predators and chopped down our trees (and them put that on the state seal) before the watermelons could tell us how cute they are.
It does seem like there have been a lot of bear posts. Doesn't bother me, though, because I really don't like the boogers and, yeah, I am afraid of them. We've got 30,000 in the north half of the state (where I camp and fish), and a paper-thin nylon tent doesn't offer a lot of protection. I've seen six or seven (one big guy from about 12 feet) and never had a problem, but I still don't like them.
Emergency Medical Service Dude,
Here in the LP of Michigan I've seen only one black bear. As said they are generally not as aggresssive as the Grizzlies. If I were in an area where bear confrontations were more common I'd carry one of those 9.2 oz Pepper spray bear repellants. They can deliver a wide fog at 30 ft and I've seen their stopping power on video demos. Understress you will probably have better repelling results than with a pistol. I'd carry my .357 too but I think the spray would work better.
Here in the LP of Michigan I've seen only one black bear. As said they are generally not as aggresssive as the Grizzlies. If I were in an area where bear confrontations were more common I'd carry one of those 9.2 oz Pepper spray bear repellants. They can deliver a wide fog at 30 ft and I've seen their stopping power on video demos. Understress you will probably have better repelling results than with a pistol. I'd carry my .357 too but I think the spray would work better.
Those sprays may or may not work on the bear, but if any gets on a human, it won't do him any good. Be sure the wind doesn't blow any spray your way, especially if you have asthma or other health problems.
I read a couple of books by a guy who teaches bear danger classes in British Columbia, and he doesn't think much of sprays. Thinks the province needs to be more reasonable about people carrying guns. Now, it's hard to impossible to go armed in much of Canada outside of hunting season.
Thankfully, many Americans can still be prepared in case a bear gets too aggressive. And, they do. The media doesn't report many attacks that I've read about in specialist or outdoor media.
Same for the shark attacks that someone mentioned above.
The bear and shark apologists try to pretend it doesn't happen much, but it does, at least in relation to what the public gets to hear about.
Lone Star
I read a couple of books by a guy who teaches bear danger classes in British Columbia, and he doesn't think much of sprays. Thinks the province needs to be more reasonable about people carrying guns. Now, it's hard to impossible to go armed in much of Canada outside of hunting season.
Thankfully, many Americans can still be prepared in case a bear gets too aggressive. And, they do. The media doesn't report many attacks that I've read about in specialist or outdoor media.
Same for the shark attacks that someone mentioned above.
The bear and shark apologists try to pretend it doesn't happen much, but it does, at least in relation to what the public gets to hear about.
Lone Star
There is a good reason why there are more bear stories: there are more bears.
In 25 years I saw one bear in Colorado. Bear season used to last spring through fall. A few years ago they passed an amendment to the state constitution banning the spring-summer bear season.
I believe it was last year that I read about a bear raiding a bee farm (what else do call them, a bee ranch?) near Rocky Ford, which is way out in Eastern Colorado, over a hundred miles from the mountains. Bears in front range suburban areas too. Well, you get what you pay for.
I like bears. I like to get close to them and see them. But there is such a thing as "too close". I don't want to shoot one, but if other people want to hunt them, that is fine by me.
Funny thing, I would fire a warning shot for a bear but not for a human BG. Isn't that backwards? Well, if you scare off the bear with a warning shot everything is ok, but if you pull a gun on a person you better have a legal reason to kill them, and then you better make dang sure you go ahead and do it. Don't our laws make a lot of sense?
Speaking of bear stories - I wonder how many bears get shot in self-defense and the event never gets reported ...... ?
In 25 years I saw one bear in Colorado. Bear season used to last spring through fall. A few years ago they passed an amendment to the state constitution banning the spring-summer bear season.
I believe it was last year that I read about a bear raiding a bee farm (what else do call them, a bee ranch?) near Rocky Ford, which is way out in Eastern Colorado, over a hundred miles from the mountains. Bears in front range suburban areas too. Well, you get what you pay for.
I like bears. I like to get close to them and see them. But there is such a thing as "too close". I don't want to shoot one, but if other people want to hunt them, that is fine by me.
Funny thing, I would fire a warning shot for a bear but not for a human BG. Isn't that backwards? Well, if you scare off the bear with a warning shot everything is ok, but if you pull a gun on a person you better have a legal reason to kill them, and then you better make dang sure you go ahead and do it. Don't our laws make a lot of sense?
Speaking of bear stories - I wonder how many bears get shot in self-defense and the event never gets reported ...... ?
Well gang you have all certainly given me mucho info as usual.
I feel comfy with my 65 but I agree with you Ventricular Fibrillation, i will also carry some pepper spray. If it doesnt work, I can always try to shoot it.
Negative on the firecrackers. [fire hazard]
Now I need some ideas on how to carry when hiking or camping. I dont want to get in trouble with the park rangers. I normally hike in the N.Ga n. Carolina area.
When I hunt it's a no brainer, i just wear a belt holster.
Thanks.
I feel comfy with my 65 but I agree with you Ventricular Fibrillation, i will also carry some pepper spray. If it doesnt work, I can always try to shoot it.
Negative on the firecrackers. [fire hazard]
Now I need some ideas on how to carry when hiking or camping. I dont want to get in trouble with the park rangers. I normally hike in the N.Ga n. Carolina area.
When I hunt it's a no brainer, i just wear a belt holster.
Thanks.
TallPine, thanks much. Bears are not a concern for us here. Except the Chicago kind when they play the Colts.
I've always thought that the "bear stories" were just more fiction penned by gun hacks in the gun rags. Sounds like you hairy-chested Westerners need to change your bear hunting laws. Silly watermelons. Why protect a predator? Shoot them.
Do you have any stats? Or suggest where I can go for bear info? There's got to be something, right?
BTW, I've heard them called "bee farms" or stacks here in the fertile Wabash Valley.
I've always thought that the "bear stories" were just more fiction penned by gun hacks in the gun rags. Sounds like you hairy-chested Westerners need to change your bear hunting laws. Silly watermelons. Why protect a predator? Shoot them.
Do you have any stats? Or suggest where I can go for bear info? There's got to be something, right?
BTW, I've heard them called "bee farms" or stacks here in the fertile Wabash Valley.
Bears...
Sprays are more effective on grizzly bears, less effective on black bears. You're not likely to have an encounter with either a grizzly or a black bear - black bears are very common here in the Idaho panhandle. When picking huckleberries in late summer it's common to run into them; you're competing for their food. I've never had one attack, usually they back off a short distance and snort at you. I'm backing away too, I'm not interested in finding out what happens if I move forward or continue picking berries. I carry a .357 magnum loaded with 158 gr. cast bullets. These bears can get large; we got a huge old one that uses a trail just down the road from my house. It's a very big animal.
Sprays are more effective on grizzly bears, less effective on black bears. You're not likely to have an encounter with either a grizzly or a black bear - black bears are very common here in the Idaho panhandle. When picking huckleberries in late summer it's common to run into them; you're competing for their food. I've never had one attack, usually they back off a short distance and snort at you. I'm backing away too, I'm not interested in finding out what happens if I move forward or continue picking berries. I carry a .357 magnum loaded with 158 gr. cast bullets. These bears can get large; we got a huge old one that uses a trail just down the road from my house. It's a very big animal.
stellarpod
New member
You're 357 is fine. But, forget about hollow-points, etc.
Federal 180 grain Castcore. Hard-cast lead hunting rounds.
Chances are slim that you'll have an encounter. But if you do, you won't want expansion. You'll need bone-crushing capability.
Federal 180 grain Castcore. Hard-cast lead hunting rounds.
Chances are slim that you'll have an encounter. But if you do, you won't want expansion. You'll need bone-crushing capability.
IIRC, Rush had a stint (stunt?) a while back about falling coconuts killing more people than sharks. This during Shark Summer. 
I guess a spray could be OK IF the wind was blowing directly from you to bear. Much of anything else - pi$$ing in the wind comes to mind.
EMS, trying to carry descretely with a full-size backpack's a stickler. I did carry a .357 on my backpack's belt, but that was open & was a hassle if I took the pack off & wanted to carry the handgun around still hostered. Shoulder holsters seem to always be in the way of the shoulder straps ...
If ou have to carry concealed, what about one of those "flexi-belt" things (Thunderwer?) that you could wear inside your shirt but out of the way of the backpack straps? Just musing ....
I agree with bullet choice of heavy hard cast.
I guess a spray could be OK IF the wind was blowing directly from you to bear. Much of anything else - pi$$ing in the wind comes to mind.
EMS, trying to carry descretely with a full-size backpack's a stickler. I did carry a .357 on my backpack's belt, but that was open & was a hassle if I took the pack off & wanted to carry the handgun around still hostered. Shoulder holsters seem to always be in the way of the shoulder straps ...
If ou have to carry concealed, what about one of those "flexi-belt" things (Thunderwer?) that you could wear inside your shirt but out of the way of the backpack straps? Just musing ....
I agree with bullet choice of heavy hard cast.