Machineguntony
New member
Just a heads up fellas...
I have been enhancing and adding to my machine gun collection. During this time, I have received numerous fake and fraudulent offers to sell and buy.
Recently, I was contacted by a very reputable and honest (and awesome) local dealer, who told me that they had been contacted by another reputable dealer who wanted to sell me a MG. My local dealer stated that they ran the MG and that the machine gun came back as legit. The local dealer is nationally known, so the local dealer proposed to the seller that the seller ship the gun to the local dealer, after ATF approved the Form 3, and then upon delivery, the local dealer would pay the seller. This set up would be acceptable because the local dealer was nationally known and has a good reputation. The seller refused and wanted cash up front, and then when the local dealer did not ship the cash, the seller disappeared.
This is surely a fraudulent seller. The facts above plus this seller's willingness to sell the MG at 1/2 the market value was a very strong indicator that this was a fraudulent seller.
It is very easy for a fraudulent seller to get a real serial number from the same state or locality in which the fraudulent seller resides, and then pass of the gun as if owned by the fraudulent seller. Then when you or your local dealer run the serial number, it comes back to the fraudulent sellers state and even name (because the fraudulent seller assumed the persona of the real owner).
About a month ago a friend of mine showed me a picture of an M60E6 that someone offered to him for sale. The seller was someone in Texas. It was a real M60E6, and this proposed M60E6 really is currently in Texas. The E6 upgrade is very hard to obtain and is very rare, but the seller had to part with the gun and was willing to sell it for an amazing price. But it was actually my M60E6, and the picture was stolen from this forum.
A survey of Sturm shows lots of fraudulent sellers. So this appears to be a real problem.
Guys, be careful when buying MGs online. You really have no choice but to buy online because the broader market is online, but be careful when buying OR SELLING. Check, double check, and call the seller. Maybe have someone go examine the gun in person and have a respected intermediary hold the gun and funds in trust. Just because a serial number comes back as real doesn't mean the deal is real. Finally, anyone giving you too good of a deal on a MG should be viewed very suspiciously.
BTW, in case you're wondering how you can be a victim when you're selling, the answer is that some fraudulent buys will use the old check scam. You possess the gun, after all, so how can you be scammed? The buyer will agree to pay you $30,000 for your MP5, but then send you a check for $35,000. They'll say something like, "I thought we said $35,000, I must have confused your gun with the other MP5 on gunbroker". You go and deposit the check, and lo and behold, two days later there is $35,000 in your account. You send the $5,000 overpayment refund to the buyer. A month later your bank tells you that the $35,000 check bounced. The bank now demand/sues you for the missing $5,000. You are on the hook for the $5,000.
As a show and tell, here is MY E6.
I have been enhancing and adding to my machine gun collection. During this time, I have received numerous fake and fraudulent offers to sell and buy.
Recently, I was contacted by a very reputable and honest (and awesome) local dealer, who told me that they had been contacted by another reputable dealer who wanted to sell me a MG. My local dealer stated that they ran the MG and that the machine gun came back as legit. The local dealer is nationally known, so the local dealer proposed to the seller that the seller ship the gun to the local dealer, after ATF approved the Form 3, and then upon delivery, the local dealer would pay the seller. This set up would be acceptable because the local dealer was nationally known and has a good reputation. The seller refused and wanted cash up front, and then when the local dealer did not ship the cash, the seller disappeared.
This is surely a fraudulent seller. The facts above plus this seller's willingness to sell the MG at 1/2 the market value was a very strong indicator that this was a fraudulent seller.
It is very easy for a fraudulent seller to get a real serial number from the same state or locality in which the fraudulent seller resides, and then pass of the gun as if owned by the fraudulent seller. Then when you or your local dealer run the serial number, it comes back to the fraudulent sellers state and even name (because the fraudulent seller assumed the persona of the real owner).
About a month ago a friend of mine showed me a picture of an M60E6 that someone offered to him for sale. The seller was someone in Texas. It was a real M60E6, and this proposed M60E6 really is currently in Texas. The E6 upgrade is very hard to obtain and is very rare, but the seller had to part with the gun and was willing to sell it for an amazing price. But it was actually my M60E6, and the picture was stolen from this forum.
A survey of Sturm shows lots of fraudulent sellers. So this appears to be a real problem.
Guys, be careful when buying MGs online. You really have no choice but to buy online because the broader market is online, but be careful when buying OR SELLING. Check, double check, and call the seller. Maybe have someone go examine the gun in person and have a respected intermediary hold the gun and funds in trust. Just because a serial number comes back as real doesn't mean the deal is real. Finally, anyone giving you too good of a deal on a MG should be viewed very suspiciously.
BTW, in case you're wondering how you can be a victim when you're selling, the answer is that some fraudulent buys will use the old check scam. You possess the gun, after all, so how can you be scammed? The buyer will agree to pay you $30,000 for your MP5, but then send you a check for $35,000. They'll say something like, "I thought we said $35,000, I must have confused your gun with the other MP5 on gunbroker". You go and deposit the check, and lo and behold, two days later there is $35,000 in your account. You send the $5,000 overpayment refund to the buyer. A month later your bank tells you that the $35,000 check bounced. The bank now demand/sues you for the missing $5,000. You are on the hook for the $5,000.
As a show and tell, here is MY E6.
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