BBL breakin revisted ...Aimed at the Rem. 700PSS ..Sorry Gale

M

MDLewis

New member
I just bought my Rem 700 PSS and have heard a lot of talk about the supposed barrel breakin procedure. I just read the entire post from Gale McMillan about the idea of it being a waste of ammo (if i understood it correctly). Later on in that post I read about the break in procedure for th Bushmasters... in which I have one myself and followed the recommended 100-200 rounds of break in to smooth out the bore. THen I read the repy from Dave R. about Remingtons recomended procedure for breaking in a rifle. But I couldnt follow the link. Im wondering for one, what the recomended procedure is for the Remngton break in and if my bore is chrome lined? Second, I wanted to aim this question towards Gale McMillan (if your reading this), do you think that the companies break in procedures (I.E.- Bushmaster) is a waste of time and ammunition and barrel life? And I dont mean to start any fueds between anyone like the member Artech who works for Bushmaster, I simply want to know the best way to take care of my new child :) This is the first time I have had a bolt action, I have an AR-15 from bushmaster and had a Romanian AK as well as a Ruger 10/22, so I'm familiar with guns but by far im no expert. I just want to make sure my baby PSS gets the best damn treatment I can give her. I appreciate the time you guys put into this forum. I know you have saved me 300 bucks before onmy AK with its crooked front sight... Best regards from Beverly Hills...(YES Im from beverly hills..and jewish and republican...try not to faint at that...):D

Myles Lewis
 
Just shoot the darn thing and clean it when its dirty. If the bore is so rough it needs "special" treatment best make a tent peg out of it. It may make you feel better but it wont do anything to make the bore better.
 
Glad you asked this question cause I just got a Remington LTR and was wondering the same thing. I'm going to go shooting next weekend and intend to have fun. Unless someone else buys the rounds, shooting shouldn't be work:)
 
MDLewis, the problem with factory bores is that they are usually pretty rough. I personally feel that a break in is needed. When I got my custom tube put on my smith, Jeff Hicks, gave me a sheet that stated how to break the rifle in. It's more time consuming that ammo wasting. First you do a very good cleaning using a good copper solvent after every round for the first ten. Then do the same cleaning after each group of 2 for 5 groups and then aftewr every group of three for 3 groups. That's only about 29 rounds and not a big waste as I see it. He also stated that my barrel wouldn't be fully broken in till about 200 rounds and then it will start getting tighter groups. Take it for what it's worth but I did the above and I'm getting .2-.3 5 shot groups at 100 yards. Remeber though this is a custom barrel that was also hand lapped. The real reason for break in is to smooth out the rough stuff from when the cut the rifling. I think it is definately advisable especially in a factory barrel. Just make sure to clean very, very well between rounds or groups with a good copper cleaner like Shooter's Choice or Sweet's 7.62. That way when the next rouns go down they will be smoothing the bore and not just building up more copper on the rough spots. Hope this helps.
 
MDLewis, Gale died about a year back. His family is continuing their business in Phoenix. No sweat, you didn't know.

When you think about the various discussions on this subject, it may well be that Gale was thinking of custom barrels more than "rough" (a relative term) barrels of mass production.

Look at it this way: When you first get a new rifle and scope, you have to sight it in and get the kinks out. It might require a bit of messin' with the bedding, for instance. Or adjustment of the trigger--which means taking it out of the stock and then re-checking your sight-in.

Rather than worry about some specific "break-in", just clean it a bit more often with a copper-remover; arbitrarily, every five shots or so. Can't hurt, whether you're thinking in terms of break-in or not.

"A clean rifle is a happy rifle." :)

FWIW, Art
 
Having had a few of the higher end barrels, they don't need break-in nearly so much as a factory Remington.

For a top line barrel, just use JB Bore paste to make sure all the metal from cutting the bore is out and then shoot it as you would any match rifle. Mine have always been clean and polished when I got them and they clean very easily after shooting.

For a factory barrel, the JB cleaning is necessary and I think the break-in with cleaning a lot is a good idea --10x1, 5x2, 3x3 sounds reasonable. The idea is to put each round over a clean dry barrel. Factory barrels are much rougher than those from HART, Obermeyer, etc. My 700VS with factory Remington barrel shoots <1MOA, but that's after it was recrowned. Did someone say tent pegs ... Considering the $$ to get a factory barrel to shoot well, a custom barrel actually looks cost effective.
 
Breaking in barrel is somewhat like breaking in a new car engine for the first 1000 miles. Just do it slowly. But the may thing is don't over heat the barrel, this can cause premature damage. The other replies here are all correct in the addressing the question. Some barrels can start shooting very well at only 100 rounds, but then others take longer. There is of course the method of "fire-lapping" that can also help the break-in process, by using the bullets coated with "grit". I have done this with my factory barrel Rem. 700 Mag.and had it "frozen", it now shoots 5/8" groups for 5 shots using 150gr. Barnes X bullets.

Good Luck,
Coyote Hunter
 
Myles.As you know, from our IM conversations, I don't break in my rifle barrels. I just shoot and clean. However, I do shoot a lot of cast lead bullets. One of the things that needs to be done when shooting lead, is a process called "slugging the bore". This is where you drive a slightly oversized bullet through the barrel to "mike" it to determine the proper size cast bullet.
On my Remington 700 in 30-06, I found after slugging the bore that it was one of the smoothest barrels I've ever owned. I seriously doubt your PSS needs much breaking in.
On the other hand, a Winchester Mod. 70 I have has one of the roughest barrels I have ever encountered, and after treatment with JB bore compound, firelapping, and God knows what else, the bore is still like the Rocky Mountains as far as smoothness goes. About the only thing I have not done is slaughter a goat at midnight, emoting mysterious incantations while sprinkling the blood of a goat over and through the barrel. That'll surely fix it :)
Anyway, I don't think you really need much, if any, break in work. JMHO.
Paul B.
 
A Question

Reading these posts, I'm just wondering when and where barrel break-in originated.

I had never even heard of it before I started reading these boards.

I guess I just don't understand it - are today's barrels just not finished as they come from the factory?

How much difference in accuracy is there, say in inches at 200 yards?

And finally, what will cleaning with a bronze brush do that simply shooting jacketed bullets at 3000 fps won't do (in terms of smoothing out the rifling)?

Thanks!
 
Art, didnt know that Gale had died... so my apologies on that one, but I appreciate all the comments though. Its helping my quite a bit with my new rifle. Although I do need to get a one piece rod. I just have a three piece right now. Is that a big problem? I have a bore guide already so will one piece or 3 piece make much difference?
Thanks...

Myles
 
Get a coated, Dewey, one-piece rod. Either learn to adjust your trigger or go pay somebody to do it for you.

My .223 Rem VS is the most accurate firearm that I own. Fortunately, I'd never heard about breaking in a barrel, when I acquired the VS.

The opinions regarding breaking in barrels that you're reading here, when such opinions suggest tedious machinations, as opposed to Gale's recommendations, are given by folks saying "I think, blah, blah, blah, etc." I'd prefer advice from somebody who's actually manufactured barrels for a few decades to advice from somebody who just "thinks that you ought to blah, blah,blah!"
 
A Remington barrel is not in the same league as a McMillan barrel. McMillan barrels are hand lapped, and Remington's barrels are not, so I guess a break-in period with a McMillan barrel or similar would be a waste of time and ammo.

I had a Remington 700 VS in .308 that has the same barreled action as a PSS. The VS would copper foul real bad until I took some JB to the bore, and gave it a good scrubbing. One thing that surprised me was that every time that I scrubbed with JB, the groups would get noticeably smaller, and the fouling was noticeably less with each treatment. It just does not figure why this happened. Could it be that the good ole JB does as advertised? I think it does, and that is why I use it on all my barrels.

I do not confess to be an expert, but the results with the JB in a Remington unlapped barrel are facts that I saw with my own eyes, and that is enough for me.
Good Day. Sling Shot
 
MDLwis I was one of those blah blah blah people acording to Walter so basicly if you want any help from me drop me an e-mail because I wouldn't want to bother people with what my master riflesmith or I have learned over years of shooting. We're only getting .25 5 shot groups 95% of the time at 100 yards with others going into the .1's and no copper fouling but like anything barrel break in is a personal decision. I will tell you this in parting, get a good one piece coated rod like a Dewey, use a jag and not a loop and only use looped ended bronze brushes(except for when using Sweeets of course). More barrel damage has been done by improper cleaning than anything. Good luck.
 
Hey, if you're consistently getting 0.25" groups, you're shooting a world-class rifle with world-class skill...

This past weekend, I took delivery of my new fluted 6PPC Shilen barrel from Ron Hoehn... Took it down to the range, and proceded to fire one shot, clean, etc., for quite a while.

Did a bit of load development (a total of about 100 rounds), and finished the day with three half-inch groups at 200 yards - But I think I can do better...

Cleaning procedure for break in follows:

Three patches Butch's Bore Shine
Soak brush, and brush 10x
Three patches Butch's Bore Shine
Two dry patches
Patch of Sweet's to check for color
Two dry patches
Oiled patch
Bang
 
Thanks Bogie. The rifle was built by Jeff Hicks formally of Answer Products but now he's on his own. He builds great rifles and I plan on sending him my 300WM 700P when it needs rebarreling. And a 1/2 group at 200 ain't to shabby at all! Never had a 6mm PPC but a friend has one and is trying to get me to get one and shoot benchrest competitions with him. But according to some we don't know what we're talking about when it comes to breaking in barrels so maybe we shouldn't post anymore? ;) I personally used the break in to do load developement also. You have to use it for something and when you do it's not wasting ammo in my book. One shot and clean is a bit of a boring progress but when you get the results that we got it's more than worth it.
 
Summarizing what I have read through all these barrel threads:

1) The purpose of break-in is to get your barrel bore really smooth. This contributes to accuracy by giving each bullet similar friction as it slides down the bore. This contributes to cleanliness by preventing lead & copper from "snagging" on rough spots. A smooth barrel will hold less fouling, and hence will be easier to clean throughout its life.

2) Gale's main points were that JBs and other abrasives created a lot of unnecessary wear. You remove some metal when you use them. His point is one tratement with abrasives equals hundreds or thousands of rounds of wear. He did not seem to have a problem with the fire-clean-fire methods excepts that he considered them a waste of time. And I guess there is a wear factor to unnecessary cleaning, too.

3) Makes sense to me that factory barrels are rougher than custom barrels, and that a "break in" process to smooth them out would promote better accuracy and easier cleaning throughout the life of the barrel.

My experience is limited to one rifle. I bought a Remington 700 in .308. I followed Remington's break-in procedure, which was explained earlier--fire, clean, fire, etc. The results are that the rifle consistenly shoots MOA with good factory loads, with a couple of cloverleafs. 1.5-2MOA with surplus, when shooting for fun. The barrel cleans easier than either of my .22's. So I'm happy with the results.

If the break-in process shortened the life of the barrel any, I'm not too broken-hearted. If I amortize the $425 (approx) purchase price over the number of rounds I 'lost', its not much. I'll be happy with accuracy and cleanliness until then, and then I'll either buy a new one or re-barrel this one with a better barrel, and remain happy.
 
I failed to mention that I've used a product similar to JB's, Remington Bore Cleaner, on my Rem. VS. I don't consider myself an expert either, but do consider Gale to have been an expert.

Maybe Gale was wrong. I do know that I've shot tigher groups than .25" with my VS, and it's not custom-built by anybody. Maybe my use of the abrasive cleaner helped.

Of course, any comparisons to breaking in a chrome-lined barrel with other barrels is apples-to-oranges.

I do apologize for my "blah, blah, blah" post. What I should have said, more tactfully, is that I'd prefer to see reasons for advising one procedure over another, as opposed to "I just think", etc., etc. Gale was pretty good about giving reasons, in detail, for his recommendations.
 
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