BBC News: SWAT usage in America

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[snip]But Dr Kraska [a criminologist who has studied SWAT team usage for years] sees such initiatives as reflecting a changing culture of police work.

"These elite units are highly culturally appealing to certain sections of the police community. They like it, they enjoy it," he says.

"The chance to strap on a vest, grab a semi-automatic weapon and go out on a mission is for some people an exciting reason to join - even if policing as a profession can - and should - be boring for much of the time.

"The problem is that when you talk about the war on this and the war on that, and police officers see themselves as soldiers, then the civilian becomes the enemy."[snip]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4803570.stm
 
"There's a reason we separate military and the police: one fights the enemy of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

I'm sure there are situations in which "dynamic entry" no-knock warrants would require the use of such gear and tactics in order to protect the lives of the officers as well as any hostages or bystanders but it seems excessive in some cases.
 
Wildcard, I'm really surprised you didn't find this article. More your line of nonsense.
This is just a another article that confuses statistics with regards to investigations, deadly force, tactical missions and training. Really poorly written.
 
Breacher, I am not surprised that you refuse to see a problem with LE today. Your usual nonsense, nothing to see here, move along..........Keep your head in the sand, its probably better that you do.
 
Ignoring the problem wont make it go away...I am sure you would like it to, but it wont.
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Pretending there is a problem when there really isnt does not make it a problem...I know you want it to be, but it isnt.
 
Mutual Corners, gents. Don't make me come back here. ;)

Breach-
NTOA's rebuttal is no more supported by cited stats than Kraska's numbers.

Additionally, it appears to me that the article is a reflection on changing values, not a slam on individual LEO's. Many of us....I repeat, MANY, believe that the use of SWAT Teams for routine calls is dangerous and over the top....that very article points to an unarmed optometrist who was killed when a SWAT Member's gun "accidentally went off"; what was the occasion of the raid? He was under investigation for "gambling". Ergo, Organized Crime!!! One of the major points is that, as LE begins to look and act more like Military, the Us vs Them chasm widens. And the citizenry can hardly be blamed for that widening.

How many of these "anecdotal" stories of bad no-knocks, dead innocents and dead cops are necessary before good cops like you begin to at least re-examine the paradigm and the trends?

Kraska also points out that many small towns have created SWAT teams without nearly the resources for proper training. Who would dare argue that? NTOA agreed that "national standards" should be in place. After all, Modesto isn't LA. Wellington isn't Miami.

So, where's the foul or "cop bashing" in posting the article? You're going to have to squint really hard to find any of the above in what I just read.
Rich
 
HA! The BBC should be writing about Europes high crime rates, failing economy, riots, loss of control, and the confiscation of peoples rights! I had no idea our swat teams were a problem, leave it to the liberal media.
 
Last week on BBC news they were accusing the USA as trying to provoke Iran into war which (as they said) would help the US to justifiy war in Iraq. Read the articals once Rich, this stuff is not hard to find. This so called news outlet even blames Bush for their own economic problems, and now I see this week GLOBAL WARMING, last but absolutly not least the usa is the biggest contributor to the huge small arms problem in world today.

Maybe just once or twice they could point to oe of the many great things the USA does?
 
Oh, OK.
So, because we don't like some of the BBC's news, we are under obligation to discount it all? Where are the factual errors in the report?

Refusal to look at opposing viewpoints is the quickest way to induce cerebral atrophy. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. ;)
Rich
 
So, where's the foul or "cop bashing" in posting the article? You're going to have to squint really hard to find any of the above in what I just read.
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Right on....

To some, anything you say about LEO's, any actions by LEO's questioned, is considered Cop Bashing........:rolleyes:
 
I highly recommend the book "BIAS" by Bernard Goldberg. It gives people a good insight as to why the media reports the way it does. No, it is not the only way to view the media, yes there are other great books to read about the media as well.

One only needs look no further than how they report on any gun issue, war and Bush.
After they color these issues day after day they take polls to find out what colors you see.

Don't laugh too hard at media polls, it's a report card to see how well they effect public opinion.

The gun issue is the best example!
 
"The problem is that when you talk about the war on this and the war on that, and police officers see themselves as soldiers, then the civilian becomes the enemy."

Factual?
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lillysdad-
Weak. Emaciated weak. In fact, I'd agree with the statement quoted, in the context in which it is made..

Let me provide an example that I'm certain will hit home with many of the LEO's here:
Do the taverns in your burb have bouncers? If so, I'm willing to bet you've had to arrest several. Who were they? What was their mindset? We've all met them in life; guys who responded to an ad because it said "bouncer". See where I'm going?

It IS a common sense fact that, as you increase cool-factor training, gear and actions, you will attract a higher percent of individuals interested, not in the Protect and Serve part, but in the Kick Ass and Take Names aspects of The Job.

You don't have to like that fact; but you simply cannot ignore it...we ALL know one or two of these guys. They're not flat-out killers and, in most cases, not even anti-social personalities. It's just that their tool boxes are not quite full and The Raid becomes their knee jerk. It IS a rush. The training IS a rush. The weapons ARE a rush.

Denny and I see it daily in the emails we receive for SWAT Magazine. Few ask what it takes to be a Police Officer; they want to know what it takes to "get on SWAT". IOW, they're not real interested in Police work; but they do think "SWAT" would be a great job.

More in-depth article on the subject.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39486

Some police chiefs recognize the contradiction in roles and the danger of mixing them. "I was offered tanks, bazookas, anything I wanted," said Nick Pastore, former police chief in New Haven, Conn. Pastore said he "turned it all down because it feeds a mindset that you're not a police officer serving a community, you're a soldier at war."
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Rich
 
One needs only ask Wildcard..
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And ignore you.


Rich is correct in his last post, and that article is interesting...About the rush, and cool factor. I have a friend, who just got hired in LE. His reason for wanting to be a cop, and I quote, "it will be a *(&^ing rush to kick in doors and take names". Sad.
 
It's good to see that favoring owning guns does not necessarily mean favoring the use of SWAT to snuff out everything you don't like.
 
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