batf demands gun shops to give up list of all customers in last 3 years.

E

ernest2

New member
From www.nralive .com

THE CONFISCATION LIST BEGINS!

Can you say Australia, can you say Canada,
can you say Great Briton?


03/26/2000 BATF has sent gun shops letters
demanding a list of all guns sold and the law abiding gun buyers who bought them in the last 3 years.

Subsequent to this , gun shops are instructed to send in to BATF a monthly
list of all guns sold each month and the names and addresses of the law abiding
gun owners who bought them.

The Federal government and BATF if forbidden by the terms of the Gun Control Act of 1968
to either keep or possess such lists.

A gun shop along with 3 gun owners has brought the BATF to court and is suing BATF
and requesting the court to place a stop
injunction on the compilation of these law
abiding gun owners and guns owned by make,
model & serial number illegal and unconstitutuional list.

Gun shops recieving this letter must comply
or BATF will pull their Federal Firearms License and confiscate the requested records anyways.

So BATF still gets the illegal for BATF to have records but the gun shop that refused to volintarily send in the records
has their license to opperate revocked and is in jail for paperwork violations.

It is not known or apparent if BATF just sent these demands for lists of guns sold in the past 3 years to just selected gun shops or to all US gun shops.

Unconfirmed speculation as follows:
The nralive report said something about BATF wanting the information to do traces of firearms possibly relating to crime.

If this
is the case [unknown] (then maybe only) selected gun shops thought to be possibly linked to having a significant amount of their sold firearms ending up in the hands of criminals might have recieved the demand for the list.

I would be much interested in knowing if all US gun shops recieved this demand for a list or just selected gun shops.

If all US gun shops have recieved the illegal demand letter from BATF, then we see the begining of confiscation.

If selected gun shops only recieve the list demand, we are seeing a crime trace program.
 
Good job ernest2.

I was going to post about this, but I was waiting for an alert to come out, since I'm not much good at putting words on paper. You summed things up nicely.

Joe
 
It doesn't matter if only selected gunshops rec'd the letter. This is still the beginning(?) of confiscation.

------------------
Treason doth never prosper. What's the reason? For if it doth prosper, none dare call it treason." - John Barrington
 
The gun shop that brought suit is Valley Guns of Baltimore, MD. The lawyer is active in many pro-gun groups, and specializes in gun cases. The NRA web site has/had a feature on this in NRA live on friday. They expect a favorable outcome at this point. Hope so!
 
i just checked 5 dealers in the Greater Greensboro area of N.C. and none of them admits to getting such a letter or communication. several of them indicated that such records in mass would only be surrendered to the BATF under court order.

------------------
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the outcome of the vote.
Let he that hath no sword sell his garment and buy one. Luke 22-36
They all hold swords, being expert in war: every man hath his sword upon his thigh because of fear in the night. Song of Solomon 3-8
The man that can keep his head and aims carefully when the situation has gone bad and lead is flying usually wins the fight.
 
I checked with our ATF office here, and they said that letters were being sent to 10 dealers in the state who had sold "too many" guns traced to crime. One of the shops has been in the news constantly, even though the ATF says they're always cooperative and are not violators of the law. (Unfortunately, I bought a gun from this shop less than three years ago).

Whether this is about traces or not is immaterial. It's illegal, and it scares the begeeziz out of me.

Dick
 
A few years ago the BATF shut down all FFL's that were small time operations with regulations designed to put them out of business. e.g. Must have a storefront.

Now they are going after large dealers. Abd they are going to put them out of business. If a disproportionate amount of 'crime guns' comes from a shop - they will be under heavy scrutiny even though a larger store like Valley Guns will of course sell more guns and so more 'crime guns'.

This is just a scheme to put more businesses out of business.

Acceptance of this will lead to its wideaspread use and eventually we will be accustomed to it as they expand these paper hauls and compile their database for future confiscation.
Make no mistake, they want our guns - every last one of them except maybe bolt action .22lr and double barrel shotguns for skeet.

------------------
Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
This is not good.

But - isnt this blatantly unconstitutional?
methinks a good team of pitbull lawyers could turn this around. Sue the BATF for civil rights violations.

It can be done people... this isnt the end of the world. This is just another battle... this can be won.
 
This is being done to Sandy Abrams, a very pro RKBA, very vocal shop owner and a thorn in the side of Glendening, our Govenor.

This goes down the same week as pressure is being placed on the state reps & senators to stop the smart gun.

Dirty politics.

dZ
 
From what I've heard, the letters are going to the dealers who have sold a 'significant number' of guns that were traced to crimes (whatever that means).

But it's not based on a PERCENTAGE of sales, just on an absolute #, which is the truly idiotic aspect. Thus our biggest local dealer, one of the straightest of straight arrows, gets the letter; he sells THOUSANDS of guns annually, so of course, he has a higher likelihood of having a few crime guns traced back to him.

This nonsense really makes my blood boil.
 
Also keep in mind that the guns are mostly NOT used by the orig owner in crimes. They are stolen or sold "maybe many times" before they are taken by the Police. So the place of orig purchase has little to do with it. It is only to find out who has bought guns and how many /type so they can collect them. Like the SKSs in Kalif.
 
Take Libertarian's suggestion (in the other thread) and cut/paste/mail this to your Senators and Congressmen asking them WotinL is going on. Use the math as an example - they base the search on a fixed number (10), not a percentage of volume, so of course all the bigger stores take the hits.

Courtesy of GOA --

Congress: http://www.gunowners.org/h106th.htm

Senate: http://www.gunowners.org/s106th.htm

------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.
 
i saw Sandy Abrams at the Fredrick Gunshow today
I asked him how he was weathering the storm...
He said "what storm?"
I gathered he wanted to sell some merchandise and let him tend to his customers.

We Marylanders are getting kicked in the liberty teeth from all sides.

dZ
 
You aren't kidding dz.

Try to make it to Annapolis Monday Evening April 3 for the 8pm evening legislative session. The final vote will be then and we are trying to get a strong showing.

------------------
Thane (NRA GOA JPFO SAF CAN)
MD C.A.N.OP
tbellomo@home.com
http://homes.acmecity.com/thematrix/digital/237/cansite/can.html
www.members.home.net/tbellomo/tbellomo/index.htm
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression.
In both instances there is a twilight when everything remains
seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all
must be most aware of change in the air - however slight -
lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
--Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
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