basic accuracy
- Thread starter Bezoar
- Start date
Driftwood Johnson
New member
Yes.
Basic accuracy of a firearm has nothing to do with the type of sights. Basic accuracy is built into the firearm. Remove the human factors; eyesight, sight picture, repeatability of hold and how it affects recoil etc, and the firearm will tell you how accurate it is. That's why Ransom Rests were invented for pistols, to remove the human factor. All adjustable sights add is being able to move the point of impact to the point of aim. They do not increase the inherent accuracy of the firearm. Adjustable sights may also be easier to see than some of the old fixed sights. But someone who is used to fixed sights, and knows how to allow for any adjustments needed by holding off to one side or holding up or down, will be able to achieve accuracy just as good as someone with modern adjustable sights.
Basic accuracy of a firearm has nothing to do with the type of sights. Basic accuracy is built into the firearm. Remove the human factors; eyesight, sight picture, repeatability of hold and how it affects recoil etc, and the firearm will tell you how accurate it is. That's why Ransom Rests were invented for pistols, to remove the human factor. All adjustable sights add is being able to move the point of impact to the point of aim. They do not increase the inherent accuracy of the firearm. Adjustable sights may also be easier to see than some of the old fixed sights. But someone who is used to fixed sights, and knows how to allow for any adjustments needed by holding off to one side or holding up or down, will be able to achieve accuracy just as good as someone with modern adjustable sights.
Yep, I`ve seen handguns with fixed sights that would little bitty tight groups on target all day long, and gun with adjustable sights that shot groups that looked more like patterns. I have Air Weight Smiths with fixed sights and 2 in. barrels that are for real close and personal, but both will shot as good as you can hold them, a dinner plate at 20 yards should be very do able.
Vt.birdhunter
New member
Instead of ringing steel, try some groupings on paper with different loads/ammo brands. Try shooting from a rest instead of off-hand.
Measured groupings from a rest are a decent indicator of inherent accuracy from the revolver itself.
Try to approach or equal those results off-hand.
Measured groupings from a rest are a decent indicator of inherent accuracy from the revolver itself.
Try to approach or equal those results off-hand.
Hammerhead
New member
2 issues in my mind.
The fixed sights often give a less than desirable sight picture for target shooting. They are often rounded and polished and you get a lot of glare in bright sun or under indoor lamps. If the sun is to your left, you tend to shoot left.
The other problem is the Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation. If you stick with one load you'll get used to it. But changing bullet weight and/or velocity will change the POI in both windage and elevation, especially with the big bore single action guns. Less noticeable in .357/38.
The only fixed sight revolver I was satisfied with was a S&W model 10. It was dead on and gave a nice sight picture.
The most disappointing were Ruger single actions. Windage errors and shiny, rounded front sights made good target shooting difficult for me.
I switched to a GP100 and am living happily ever after.
The fixed sights often give a less than desirable sight picture for target shooting. They are often rounded and polished and you get a lot of glare in bright sun or under indoor lamps. If the sun is to your left, you tend to shoot left.
The other problem is the Kentucky windage and Tennessee elevation. If you stick with one load you'll get used to it. But changing bullet weight and/or velocity will change the POI in both windage and elevation, especially with the big bore single action guns. Less noticeable in .357/38.
The only fixed sight revolver I was satisfied with was a S&W model 10. It was dead on and gave a nice sight picture.
The most disappointing were Ruger single actions. Windage errors and shiny, rounded front sights made good target shooting difficult for me.
I switched to a GP100 and am living happily ever after.
Its not the sights that make a gun shoot well, that is the gun and the ammo combination.
Good sights allow YOU to aim well.
Any sighting system is only going to be perfectly "on" for one load, at one range. The advantage to adjustable sights is that they let you decide what that is going to be. With fixed sights, its up to you to aim for what the gun and ammo does, and where.
Good sights allow YOU to aim well.
Any sighting system is only going to be perfectly "on" for one load, at one range. The advantage to adjustable sights is that they let you decide what that is going to be. With fixed sights, its up to you to aim for what the gun and ammo does, and where.
And this is why you 'find' the load you are going to shoot with the fixed sighted revolver and 'then' adjust the sights accordingly. Of course hopefully that load shoots low so you can file the front sight to bring up! I corrected the windage on mine by having a smith turn the barrels (do this first before filing the front sight). I like a straight shoot'n revolver!
I read in one of Charlie Askins' books that when the Border Patrol adopted the Colt New Service in 38 Special he said he made a tool to adjust the front sights for windage but he did not describe it otherwise. As others have noted, sights do not really affect or determine accuracy, rather they let you adjust the handgun to shoot where YOU want it to shoot.
This is the main reason I've never been happy with fixed sights. Because adjustments to fixed sights are, essentially a permanent change.
They are fine on guns intended for short range, and essentially a single load. Fixed sights on that snub nose .38? Cool. On a SA .45 Colt? I can live with them, but I'm much happier with adjustables. On a .44 Mag? Adjustables are necessary feature, for me.
Also think any .22 sport pistol should have adjustable sights, too.
What happens when you can't get that precise load your fixed sight gun is "adjusted" for? Or just can't get that load, right now? With adjustables, a couple turns with a screwdriver during target practice and you are good to go. AND you can just as easily go back, when/if you need to.
While the sights (and the trigger pull) don't have any effect on the mechanical accuracy of the gun and ammo combination, they have a big effect on the practical accuracy of the gun, ammo, and SHOOTER combination.
It's a lot of fun finding "that" fixed sight load! Yea it costs a bit to have a lot of different ammo on hand, butif shooting is your Hobby, then having a bunch of different mmo is a requirement!
I played around lot to find my Ruger .357 Mag Vaquero's favorite s.
It turns out that a factory loaded (new ammo) 158gr full power load shoots POA @ 21 ft perfectlly! Secondly, the Remington Golden Sabre +P 125gr load also hits POA just right too! Now the +P's make for a fine GP trail and self Defense load in the 4 5/*" Vaquero! They're very powerfull and the "Bark" is substantially lower than full house .357 Mags!
Likewise, my Model 10-6 M&Pcenters the sights with the same 158gr Remington Factory lod!
MY Model 36 likes the standard KSWC and 3.0 gr of Bullseye to hit POA @ 21ft.
For the Model 10 and Model 36, I have chosen the Horniday XTP factory new Self Defense cartrige for both revolvers! I went for power, low muzzle flash and low Muzzle blast and sacrificed just a little accuracy to get that.
You need to play around with different loads and maake your choices...
ZVP
I played around lot to find my Ruger .357 Mag Vaquero's favorite s.
It turns out that a factory loaded (new ammo) 158gr full power load shoots POA @ 21 ft perfectlly! Secondly, the Remington Golden Sabre +P 125gr load also hits POA just right too! Now the +P's make for a fine GP trail and self Defense load in the 4 5/*" Vaquero! They're very powerfull and the "Bark" is substantially lower than full house .357 Mags!
Likewise, my Model 10-6 M&Pcenters the sights with the same 158gr Remington Factory lod!
MY Model 36 likes the standard KSWC and 3.0 gr of Bullseye to hit POA @ 21ft.
For the Model 10 and Model 36, I have chosen the Horniday XTP factory new Self Defense cartrige for both revolvers! I went for power, low muzzle flash and low Muzzle blast and sacrificed just a little accuracy to get that.
You need to play around with different loads and maake your choices...
ZVP
Hammerhead
New member
If my GP100 had fixed sights, it would have been off in windage with all of my 158 grain loads. I don't want to shoot anything else. With a 50 yard zero I have the rear sight moved most of the way to the right, but the barrel seems well centered/indexed on the frame.
You might get lucky with a fixed sight gun, but if you don't, it can be very frustrating. Odds are 40-60 against you.
You might get lucky with a fixed sight gun, but if you don't, it can be very frustrating. Odds are 40-60 against you.
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I handload, so I too can always find (and make) the load that the fixed sights are set for.
BUT, anything else is a crapshoot. And when you start talking different velocities, almost anything can happed.
As an extreme example, a friend had a SAA copy (I forget the name) in .357 Magnum. Shooting .38s, 158gr @ 850fps, the gun was a dream, exact point of aim impact at 25ft. EVERY .357 load we tried in that gun shot at least a foot low and left (yes a foot both ways) at the same range.
Most guns aren't that bad, but some....
Yep. When you make radial changes to velocity (or change bullet) things can/will change. I agree
My .45 Colt original Vaquero was a case in point. When I was looking for a powder/bullet combination for this gun, 4227 moved impact 1" to the right and down a bit at 25Y. At the time this was a good thing as it was shooting 2" or so left. So used the 4227 load with this gun. Then I found the green dot load that I really like for my other .45s, and then had the original Vaquero barrel turned to get it shooting 'straight' with the Green Dot load. Stuck with it ever since. Way cheaper to shoot 7.0g of Green Dot than 20.0g of IMR 4227.
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